Ruben Brown on Mitch Morse: “It Might Be It For Him” & Carwell Gardner is “Severely Suffering”

[brianthomas]

Just now, MJS said:

Bunch of useless speculation. Completely silly to be guessing about Morse and his situation. He could go on and play another 10 years, or he could be done tomorrow. Nobody knows anything.

I hear ya but can't that be said about everything said here? About Allen becoming a good QB? About how our team will do this year? Everything that takes place on a message board, other than sharing info from team sources or the media is speculation. None of us know anything about anything. If we'll win tonight vs Carolina, if we'll make the playoffs. But yet we still talk about it

[billsfan1959]

29 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

The reality is that it might be. It feels like he is going to have one more go but if following this comeback he gets one more concussion this year I think he will walk away from the game. I hope it doesn't happen and sad for him and Buffalo if it does but at some point you have to put your long term health first.

I wouldn't blame him if he walked away now and certainly if he sustained another concussion. Being around and healthy, long term, for your family and those that love you is worth more than your career. I understand that more and more the older I get.

[unbillievable]

2 minutes ago, MJS said:

Bunch of useless speculation. Completely silly to be guessing about Morse and his situation. He could go on and play another 10 years, or he could be done tomorrow. Nobody knows anything.

 

We can talk about silly stuff or be productive at work...

...

[ddaryl]

25 minutes ago, Phil The Thrill said:

 

It has to be a major disappointment for the Bills if that happens. I’m thinking that they’d still be on the hook for the huge guaranteed money for his contract

 

 

Here is some info if Morse has to retire.

 

https://www.behindthesteelcurtain.com/pittsburgh-steelers-nfl-features-news-blog-long-form/2016/3/5/11158958/nfl-101-how-cuts-retirements-and-trades-affect-the-salary-cap

 

 

Quote

 

Retirements

Teams can end a contract at any time, but so can players. In a player's case, though, the only way they can do this is by retiring. In the end, though, the math looks pretty much the same as if the player had been cut -- and the June 1 rule applies here, too.

For instance, if our player from the example above had retired instead of being cut, his money would account the same way as if he had been cut by the team. If he files his retirement paperwork on or after June 1, the money counts as if he was cut on or after June 1.

Just like anything else in the NFL, though, there is a "but" for this rule, too: if the player retires with time remaining on his contract, then chooses to come back into the league later, he is not a free agent. Contracts apply, in most cases, to accrued seasons, not calendar years. If the player doesn't play, he doesn't accrue a season. Therefore, his return to the field would put him back under the control of the same team, unless that team chooses to cut him. This rule is part of the reason why Barry Sanders chose to retire: the Lions refused to cut him, and he decided he'd rather stop playing altogether than play another season for Detroit. Conversely, Brett Favre retired, and then the team chose to cut him while he was retired. He was then able to return to the league later as a free agent.

Okay, there are actually two "buts" for retirements. When a player retires, the team has the option to pursue the return of a portion of the signing bonus equal to the unplayed portions of the contract, and that money is no longer counted against the salary cap. This is typically done through an arbitrator. This is known as the "Barry Sanders Rule" because this is exactly how the situation played out in his case, as he was required to pay back a portion of his bonus. The difference between now and then is there was no precedent when Sanders played; now, it's explicitly written into the CBA to allow for this arbitration

 

 

[Beast]

Ruben Brown likes to hear himself talk without knowing what the ***** he is saying.

[Punching Bag]

2 minutes ago, That's No Moon said:

Wonder what helmet he's using these days.  I saw a presentation by Vicis. Those are pretty impressive in terms of energy dissipation.  If my kid played football he'd wear one of those. 

 

Some of the new helmets have not been green light by NFL/NFLPA and part of that is marketing. 

 

Here is another helmet designed by the designer of ProCap which Mark Kelso wore:

https://www.baltimoresun.com/business/bs-bz-football-helmet-concussions-20180131-story.html

 

Vicis is mentioned in article.

[MJS]

3 minutes ago, brianthomas said:

I hear ya but can't that be said about everything said here? About Allen becoming a good QB? About how our team will do this year? Everything that takes place on a message board, other than sharing info from team sources or the media is speculation. None of us know anything about anything. If we'll win tonight vs Carolina, if we'll make the playoffs. But yet we still talk about it

Sure, but those other things are projections based on at least a little evidence. We have no information about Morse because he is in concussion protocol. All we know is that he appears to have progressed into stage 4, which is a positive sign. And yet people are already blaming Beane for signing him and suggesting that Morse will never play again? Or if he gets another concussion he will have to retire? That's bull. Nobody knows, and in this instance it is useless to speculate about.

[DCofNC]

Yeah, DW wasnt great.  Beane has made some bad ones too, Morse was a really terrible signing it appears. He takes way too many risks on injured players and gives out a lot of guaranteed money to pretty mediocre players.  Last year, McCarron, Murphy, Star, Ivory, Vonte Davis... pretty awful.  Traded McCarron before the year starts, also a horrible move. Murphy was useless, Star got double what he's worth, Ivory they way over paid with no competition and Davis..c'mon man!

 

I hope Morse makes a smart choice, he shouldn't risk his long term health for the game, but ultimately, its his call.

[That's No Moon]

1 minute ago, Limeaid said:

 

Some of the new helmets have not been green light by NFL/NFLPA and part of that is marketing. 

 

Here is another helmet designed by the designer of ProCap which Mark Kelso wore:

https://www.baltimoresun.com/business/bs-bz-football-helmet-concussions-20180131-story.html

The Vicis has. There are NFL guys that wear it including Russell Wilson.

 

I realize it's marketing also but when you drop one helmet on a tile floor and it pings and bounces up like a golf ball and the other thuds and barely bounces at all it leaves a pretty big impression

 

Independent testing puts that helmet as #2 available FWIW.

https://www.helmet.beam.vt.edu/varsity-football-helmet-ratings.html

 

 

[TheyCallMeAndy]

I wonder if he/doctors said 1 more and his career is done, a move to OG would happen, if that could make any difference.

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

7 minutes ago, DCofNC said:

Yeah, DW wasnt great.  Beane has made some bad ones too, Morse was a really terrible signing it appears. He takes way too many risks on injured players and gives out a lot of guaranteed money to pretty mediocre players.  Last year, McCarron, Murphy, Star, Ivory, Vonte Davis... pretty awful.  Traded McCarron before the year starts, also a horrible move. Murphy was useless, Star got double what he's worth, Ivory they way over paid with no competition and Davis..c'mon man!

 

I hope Morse makes a smart choice, he shouldn't risk his long term health for the game, but ultimately, its his call.

 

Absurd. Name one cap=crippling contract like Dareus. I'll wait.

 

[TigerJ]

25 minutes ago, DaBillsFanSince1973 said:

 

 

off the track just some here, but are these new helmet designs supposed to help against concussions?

I'm sure that's the intent, and just as sure they only provide very limited protection versus the older helmet designs.

[oldmanfan]

Everyone should go read or listen to the interview WGR did with Morse.  He talks about how he went to a clinic in Michigan during the off season for some extensive testing and he passed everything.  So given that it’s certainly worth signing him.  

 

Everyone should read the comments by McD about Lotuleili and how he does what McD needs for his D.

 

Beane is not immune to criticism.  He messed up not bringing in Anderson in earlier last year.  And he admitted such.  Trading picks for Benjamin and Coleman were’t Good moves.  But on the whole he’s doing pretty well.

[Say When...]

now i know this is a sensitive topic and it should be taken seriously but concussion protocol can be initiated regardless of it truly being a concussion or not, there's no irrefutable proof here and it's done as a safety measure and i'm sure quite conservative in nature.  I think this is all talk and speculation and not lending to the actual reality of whats going on.

 

i sit here and read this and can't help but think "What about Keuchly?"  that guy has his own personal Quasimodo; by all accounts he should be drooling down the front of himself by now and yet he keeps trotting himself out there; and i'm not sure his position isn't just as dangerous.

Edited August 16, 2019 by Say When...

[JoshAllenHasBigHands]

3 minutes ago, Joe in Winslow said:

 

Absurd. Name one cap=crippling contract like Dareus. I'll wait.

 

 

I genuinely do not understand why people get so upset about small to medium contracts for players that may or may not work out.  He cleared the room, there is nothing wrong with him using it. Its not like any of these contracts are prohibitive in ANY sense. 

19 minutes ago, ddaryl said:

 

 

Here is some info if Morse has to retire.

 

https://www.behindthesteelcurtain.com/pittsburgh-steelers-nfl-features-news-blog-long-form/2016/3/5/11158958/nfl-101-how-cuts-retirements-and-trades-affect-the-salary-cap

 

 

 

 

It is crazy to me that if a guy retires the team still has to eat the cap hit. I genuinely do not understand the justification for that. 

[Just Joshin']

Reuben Brown MD?  Does he play one on TV?  Stay at a Holiday Inn?

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

Just now, JoshAllenHasBigHands said:

 

I genuinely do not understand why people get so upset about small to medium contracts for players that may or may not work out.  He cleared the room, there is nothing wrong with him using it. Its not like any of these contracts are prohibitive in ANY sense. 

 

Exactly, say the worst case scenario happens and morse hangs it up.

 

What's the dead cap next year? 2 million? And even IF they had to eat 20 this year, they'd still have a boatload of cap left for replacements.

Despite what the upthread poster claims, Doug Whaley was HORRIBLE at cap managment.

 

[DrDawkinstein]

46 minutes ago, BillsVet said:

They had a major need at center, knew about Morse's concussion history, and still went forward with the contract.  (Cue someone to say Beane didn't know he'd get another concussion). 

 

People here talk about Beane's management of the cap and how he maneuvered the team into a solid position after Whaley.  Yet, he's the guy who signed players like Star to a bloated contract, gave a thrice concussed Morse a big contract, and traded for Benjamin who flamed out fast.  He may not be as bad as Dugout Doug 2013-2016, but he's showing signs his command of personnel and dollars isn't as great as advertised.

 

For McBeane's sake, they'd better be a 10 or more win team this year.  Because not doing so is going to shine a bigger spotlight onto the whiffs in free agency.

 

 

 

 

Good to see you never change regardless of who is in the FO or on the field.

[JoshAllenHasBigHands]

Just now, Joe in Winslow said:

 

Exactly, say the worst case scenario happens and morse hangs it up.

 

What's the dead cap next year? 2 million? And even IF they had to eat 20 this year, they'd still have a boatload of cap left for replacements.

Despite what the upthread poster claims, Doug Whaley was HORRIBLE at cap managment.

 

 

Yeah, it really isn't the end of the world if he retires.  Part of me is hoping that he doesn't feel obligated by the big contract to put himself in real harm. Im speculating obviously. But, still, if there is a serious risk, he should stop now. 

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

48 minutes ago, BillsVet said:

They had a major need at center, knew about Morse's concussion history, and still went forward with the contract.  (Cue someone to say Beane didn't know he'd get another concussion). 

 

People here talk about Beane's management of the cap and how he maneuvered the team into a solid position after Whaley.  Yet, he's the guy who signed players like Star to a bloated contract, gave a thrice concussed Morse a big contract, and traded for Benjamin who flamed out fast.  He may not be as bad as Dugout Doug 2013-2016, but he's showing signs his command of personnel and dollars isn't as great as advertised.

 

For McBeane's sake, they'd better be a 10 or more win team this year.  Because not doing so is going to shine a bigger spotlight onto the whiffs in free agency.

 

 

 

Who's the bigger fool? The fool himself or the fool who responds to the fool? I'll take a stab at this ridiculousness.

 

Find me one contract with as bad a cap crippling effect on the roster today as Dareus' bloated, no-out whaley special contract.

 

Just one will do. Go ahead.