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Defense was lights out against Colts


Shaw66

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1 hour ago, Shaw66 said:

I didn't say anything about the future. I said the defense was very good against the Colts and gave my reasons

  Why do I have to pump my brakes about that?  

 

 

It’s fine.

 

I am one that doesn’t put much stock in preseason performances, AT ALL, good or bad.

 

It’s all about.............. NO BIG INJURIES.

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11 hours ago, Shaw66 said:

It made me think of the Pat's defense.  They're never out of position and always gang tackle. That's what I saw against the Colts.  One is 43 and the other 34, bit both teams get after the ball.  

 

The Patriots are a hybrid. I think with Flores the played a bit more 34 in 2018 but in 16 and 17 with Patricia they were more of a 43. 

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6 hours ago, eanyills said:

 

What about the fact almost every week 1 skill position starter on offense didn’t play for the Colts?

 

Pump the brakes. Preseason means absolutely nothing to assess team performance.

 

The Bills were missing a few starters on defence as well. you can still make the argument that they are looking like a cohesive unit considering it's the first preseason game. There  are enough fence sitters and jilted lovers on the board to allow a few optimistic fans to get excited.

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11 hours ago, Drunken Pygmy Goat said:

There are a few reasons why the defense looks good (albeit preseason) and should be good this year (we all knows the things I'm about to mention, but I've been thinking about them a lot).

 

*First of all, our defensive minded head coach entering his 3rd year.

 

*Second, our former-head-coach/'85 Bear defensive coordinator, going into his 3rd year in Buffalo as well. We all know how important continuity is in football, and it finally seems like we have coaches in place that warrant continuity.

 

*Third, we have a GM that is very well in tune with the types of players McDermott wants and needs for his defense to have the best chance for success. The old Parcells quote about being the cook and picking the ingredients comes to mind. McDermott is the cook, and Beane and the scouting department are his shopping staff. White (credit to our former GM and scouts) and Edmunds look like major hits in the draft, and we all know too well how missing on 1st rounders can set a team back for years.

 

*Fourth, the Bills have done a good job of finding serviceable players on defense later in the draft. If they can land 1 late rounder that becomes a starter, especially early on, that's one less position to worry about next year, and on a cheap contract as well. And even if they cannot supplant certain starters right away, they may be in line to start when guys like Zo retire, or if guys like Hyde or Poyer get big bucks from other teams in free agency. Guys like Matt Milano (former GM/scouts) and Taron Johnson already have made names for themselves in this defense, and possibly guys like Siran Neal, Vosean Joseph, Jaquan Johnson, and Darryl Johnson could fill holes in the near future, but for now at least look like solid depth.

 

*Fifth, the Bills have 10 out of 11 starters returning this season...more continuity. KW is the only one not back this year, but the Bills happen to have the perfect replacement fall into their laps. And let's be honest, Kyle was still decent, but his best days were behind him by a year or two. Time will tell how good Oliver becomes, but for now, we at least know we'll have an intense player with fresh legs, who "cares" and fits the culture. Also, they added a couple guys to the secondary, one of which played well in this scheme 2 years ago (edit, looks like IR for Gaines), and the other was a former first rounder, who's coach in Houston is now in Buffalo as well.

 

Now maybe it was just preseason game #1, and some starters were out for both the Bills D and Colts O, but there were signs of encouragement with the starting unit. The run defense looked superb. Interior play was good. It looks like the game is slowing down for Edmunds. Lawson is very good at setting the edge, and perhaps not picking up the 5th year option may have lit a fire inside him. And the backups looked decent enough.

 

With all that said, one thing that I noticed that might be worth watching is Milano in passing situations. Obviously teams are going to try and find weak spots and exploit them, and there may have been a glimpse of that on Thursday. Don't get me wrong, I like Milano. He always seems to be around the ball, does a pretty good job of sifting and knifing into the backfield, and has a bit of a knack for turnovers due to his instincts and being in the right place. BUT, speaking stricly from a pass coverage standpoint, he looked like a liability in man coverage (shocker, I know). Obviously his size and speed aren't top notch for his position, but guys like Edmunds don't grow on trees. Milano is just fine for what the Bills like to do, and having a fast, rangey/lengthy guy like Edmunds next to him makes his job a bit easier, but it looked like the Colts were picking on him a bit in the passing game. Underneath drag routes were open with plenty of seperation (their first 1st down came on a crosser to Milano's assignment), and there was one play where he was manned up with the RB (I believe) who was motioned out wide. Maybe it's a small sample, but it's a league of matchups and finding weaknesses, and with as much talent as the Bills have elsewhere on defense this year, I think that could be a theme throughout the season.

 

Not trying to rain on the parade here...if that's our biggest or only noticeable weakness, we're good. I expect the defense to play similar to the 2017 unit; bend-don't-break, clamp down in the RZ and hold teams to FGs, DBs with eyes in the backfield and playing the ball/routes aggressively, and being opportunistic in creating turnovers. Sacks may be up, but I'm not sure to what extent. As long as the pressures are up, the back end should thrive. This defense seems to give up the underneath stuff willingly, whether it's a short crosser, or comeback routes on the boundary. They want to eliminate the deep pass first, and eventually "win" on enough plays to keep scores lower or take the ball away. If that means picking on Milano a bit, so be it. They'll get theirs, but we'll get ours, and our "ours" will be much more important in the grand scheme. I think that's the mentality, and it seemed to be that way in 2017.

 

Now that is thoughtful and informed analysis, good work Drunken!

Edited by CSBill
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I wonder if the people saying “pump the brakes, it’s only preseason” in this thread are also the ones saying “the offense is in trouble and Allen didn’t look good” elsewhere on the forum.

 

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22 hours ago, Shaw66 said:

I've gotta say, I've been holding my breath a bit about the defense.   The prevailing view around has been it should be as good or better than last year. 

 

Having now watched the first half of the Colts game, I gotta say there was nothing to worry about.  Great gap discipline - everyone was where he needed to be, every play.  They won their share of one on ones, held their ground on most, rarely got beaten badly one on one.  Two or three guys on every tackle.   Only tight windows for the Colts QBs.   It was stifling.

 

I also have to agree with those who have commented on Edmunds.  Quick, attacking, always in the right hole.  

 

THAT was good defense.

 

The Defense did look good but lets temper that a bit. The Colts did not have Luck and they ran the most vanilla offense posible.

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On 8/10/2019 at 4:11 PM, Shaw66 said:

I've gotta say, I've been holding my breath a bit about the defense.   The prevailing view around has been it should be as good or better than last year. 

 

Having now watched the first half of the Colts game, I gotta say there was nothing to worry about.  Great gap discipline - everyone was where he needed to be, every play.  They won their share of one on ones, held their ground on most, rarely got beaten badly one on one.  Two or three guys on every tackle.   Only tight windows for the Colts QBs.   It was stifling.

 

I also have to agree with those who have commented on Edmunds.  Quick, attacking, always in the right hole.  

 

THAT was good defense.

I agree but keep in no Luck.

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The thing about preseason is that YES, it's true: the games don't matter.

HOWEVER...

All things being equal, wouldn't you rather that the team look great in preseason than not? 

So they came out defensively and absolutely throttled a team with no Andrew Luck or TY Hilton (nevermind the fact that Buffalo had no Hughes, Hyde, or Alexander), you're saying "so what?"

Well, imagine if they looked really BAD against a Colts team with no Andrew Luck. Looked like they were all giving top effort, but got absolutely smoked by a team without their starting QB. How would you feel THEN? It could be like the Lions-Pats game, where the Lions got outgained in yardage 459 to 93, and outscored 31-3. How would you feel THEN?

All things being equal, I'll take the outcome that features  the Bills defense executing their scheme well, filling gaps, form tackling, dominating the opposition, and winning most of their individual positional matchups. Final score doesn't matter in the preseason, it's true, but performance on the field is what you want to see, and that's what we saw against Indy.

Edited by Logic
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It's funny that many say "pre-season doesn't matter" when anyone want to praise the team they root for (oh, the horror!)...but I am willing to bet if the team was completely incompetent in the pre-season that performance would suddenly be "admissible in court".  I guess pre-season only "matters" if it is negative against the team we all root for.

 

There are about 5 prominent  posters on this board that seem to actually hate the Bills but act as though they are just "speaking the truth".

 

Pretty disappointing.

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On 8/10/2019 at 1:18 PM, VW82 said:

We gave up a lot of points in 2018 but we were third in the league in yards allowed per play. Bet we finish top 5 in points against this year. So much talent and McD's a really good defensive coach.

I'm more concerned about pts than yards. Ranked 18th in points allowed doesn't get me excited.  374 pts needs to be under 315 this year, which puts us in top 5. Under 19 pts/game.

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1 hour ago, Logic said:

The thing about preseason is that YES, it's true: the games don't matter.

HOWEVER...

All things being equal, wouldn't you rather that the team look great in preseason than not? 

So they came out defensively and absolutely throttled a team with no Andrew Luck or TY Hilton (nevermind the fact that Buffalo had no Hughes, Hyde, or Alexander), you're saying "so what?"

Well, imagine if they looked really BAD against a Colts team with no Andrew Luck. Looked like they were all giving top effort, but got absolutely smoked by a team without their starting QB. How would you feel THEN? It could be like the Lions-Pats game, where the Lions got outgained in yardage 459 to 93, and outscored 31-3. How would you feel THEN?

All things being equal, I'll take the outcome that features  the Bills defense executing their scheme well, filling gaps, form tackling, dominating the opposition, and winning most of their individual positional matchups. Final score doesn't matter in the preseason, it's true, but performance on the field is what you want to see, and that's what we saw against Indy.

Thanks.  For me it was how they looked, totally in control. They knew what they were doing.  It was umpressive.

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On 8/11/2019 at 5:11 AM, Shaw66 said:

I've gotta say, I've been holding my breath a bit about the defense.   The prevailing view around has been it should be as good or better than last year. 

 

Having now watched the first half of the Colts game, I gotta say there was nothing to worry about.  Great gap discipline - everyone was where he needed to be, every play.  They won their share of one on ones, held their ground on most, rarely got beaten badly one on one.  Two or three guys on every tackle.   Only tight windows for the Colts QBs.   It was stifling.

 

I also have to agree with those who have commented on Edmunds.  Quick, attacking, always in the right hole.  

 

THAT was good defense.

 

 

Yeah, they looked really good. Mind you, having Luck on the sidelines probably made them look better. But I'm not worried about the defense much at all. They were already very good last year, and I think they're going to be even better with Oliver and with an extra year in the system for so many.

 

The offense? Yeah, I'm perspiring a bit there.

 

 

On 8/12/2019 at 11:42 AM, LABILLBACKER said:

I'm more concerned about pts than yards. Ranked 18th in points allowed doesn't get me excited.  374 pts needs to be under 315 this year, which puts us in top 5. Under 19 pts/game.

 

 

Points are a huge concern. But unlike yards, defensive points allowed doesn't even come close to isolating the defense. It's a stat that is hugely affected by field position. It's probably somewhere on the order of 30% offense and STs and 70% defense.

 

Yeah, it's a concern, but it's more of a team concern than one that isolates the defense. Yards on the other hand is about 99% defense.

Edited by Thurman#1
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On 8/10/2019 at 4:15 PM, Nextmanup said:

Not sure why you have been holding your breath about the defense.  I think they will be fine, at least for the first half of games.

 

If Allen doesn't round the corner and consistently produce sustained drives, the D being gassed in the second half is going to be a theme all season.

 

 

 

Ehh...way overstated...they finished 2nd in the NFL last year...did they look gassed in many games? Holding teams to under 200 yards of total offense several times and under 300 yards of total offene several other times?

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I don't know why people had questions about the defense. The defense is returning mostly young and prime players. Ed Oliver replaces a declining Kyle Williams and the secondary added some depth. Lorax and Hughes are the only truly older players, the veterans Hyde, Poyer, Star, and Trent are all vets but in their primes. Edumonds, Milano, Tre, Levi, T.Johnson, H.Phillips, Shaq, and Oliver are all young players who will only stand to get better. 

 

The defense is also built to fit the talent and fit for the modern NFL. It's a nice mix of young players, in their prime players with some vets in there. 

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