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Would you be okay if Josh is next Cutler?

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10 minutes ago, BillsFan692 said:

Yall think Allen can start for one full season before you give up on him? Bunch of wankers here

By the same token, you could say it's kind of silly to compare him to guys like Elway and Favre before we've seen him play a full season. It's pretty much wait and see at this point. Talent will never be a question. Work ethic will never be a question. Accuracy/decision making could linger as issues. It's also completely conceivable that he can be a top 10 guy even if he never makes a quantum leap in the areas we'd like to see him improve upon.

 

Optimism is fine and there are legitimate reasons, but there are also some concerns. Let's see how he plays this season before we declare him the next John Elway OR the next Tannehill.

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On 8/10/2019 at 5:43 AM, Ga boy said:

Josh is looking a lot like Jay Cutler but our guy appears to have more leadership skills.  I was always amazed that Jay could zip it all over the field with nothing to show for it.  During his 2nd season, I'd like to see Josh look more like Brett Favre than Jay.  Can he do it??

He may end up being more like Mathew Stafford...Just good enough to keep going every year, but not become the difference maker.

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Jake Plummer would maybe be a better guy to frame this conversation with. He had tons of talent and was a good leader and energetic, positive guy, yet he never really got over the hump to greatness. 

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4 minutes ago, ganesh said:

He may end up being more like Mathew Stafford...Just good enough to keep going every year, but not become the difference maker.

 

He’s who I thought of.  Slings the ball all over the field but is mediocre in the red zone.

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I saw the title and didn’t read the rest. First thing that came to mind, start mandatory drug testing for posters.

 

 

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1 hour ago, Cripple Creek said:

You have a talking sleeve? What other talents have you hidden from us?

Well, if I told you, it would no longer be hidden, would it? Duh! 

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On 8/9/2019 at 8:50 PM, Nextmanup said:

I think most folks around here are expecting him to be much better than Cutler, and would be gutted if he ended up around that level.

 

I'm not one of them.  The comp. I have been going with is Ryan Tannehill.  

 

My fear is that Allen will prove good enough to keep the illusion of quality about him for a long time, while not really being very good in the end, resulting in a prolonged Allen era where the team doesn't really go anywhere.

 

I.E., kind of like the Tannehill led Dolphins.

 

 

I think this all the time...good enough to win games and put up numbers- but not consistent enough to win big games...ala Matthew Stafford...time will tell.

Edited by JaCrispy

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2 hours ago, Bangarang said:

 

Come on man, you know that comparing modern QB stats to those of 20-30 years ago is dumb.

 

 

 

This is not the hill I want to die on. However from the 1983 draft class of Marino, Elway, and Kelly - Marino and Elway are 5th and 9th all time for passing yards despite playing in that same older era. Similar rankings for most major categories. It is somewhat remarkable that of all QBs from all era, Cutler and Kelly are within a few spots of each other for a ton of major categories and, in most cases right around Top 30 all time. For yards, for example, Kelly is 27th and Cutler 28th. QB rating Kelly 40th Cutler 36th. Passing yard per game Cutler 30th Kelly 35th. Passes complete Cutler 26th Kelly 29th. I didn't know any of this when I first posted. 

 

But even ignoring the Kelly/Cutler comparison, Cutler being ~Top 30 in all time yards, TDs, QB rating is rather impressive. I was responding to the comment "why would you be be ok with on field performance of Cutler". I'm just suggesting that if he did what Cutler did on the field it's actually a fairly high bar. For the most part, ability and performance on the field weren't the issue for Cutler.

 

Leaders

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/leaders/pass_yds_career.htm

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/leaders/pass_td_career.htm

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/leaders/pass_rating_career.htm

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16 minutes ago, disco said:

This is not the hill I want to die on. However from the 1983 draft class of Marino, Elway, and Kelly - Marino and Elway are 5th and 9th all time for passing yards despite playing in that same older era. Similar rankings for most major categories. It is somewhat remarkable that of all QBs from all era, Cutler and Kelly are within a few spots of each other for a ton of major categories and, in most cases right around Top 30 all time. For yards, for example, Kelly is 27th and Cutler 28th. QB rating Kelly 40th Cutler 36th. Passing yard per game Cutler 30th Kelly 35th. Passes complete Cutler 26th Kelly 29th. I didn't know any of this when I first posted. 

 

But even ignoring the Kelly/Cutler comparison, Cutler being ~Top 30 in all time yards, TDs, QB rating is rather impressive. I was responding to the comment "why would you be be ok with on field performance of Cutler". I'm just suggesting that if he did what Cutler did on the field it's actually a fairly high bar. For the most part, ability and performance on the field weren't the issue for Cutler.

 

Leaders

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/leaders/pass_yds_career.htm

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/leaders/pass_td_career.htm

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/leaders/pass_rating_career.htm

I don't remember where I heard it, but there was some conversation on the radio with various NFL-focused talking heads not that long ago, and they were discussing the concept of a QB busting.

 

The idea was to suggest that a lot of failed QBs from a fan's perspective are not really failed QBs from an organizational perspective.  I'm pretty sure Cutler was specifically referenced.  The idea was that you can argue fairly compellingly that Cutler was a good acquisition by Chicago, despite never having really taken the team as far as fans probably would have hoped for.

 

I find it fascinating, despite the differing eras, that Jay F-ing Culter and Jim Kelly are statistically comparable! 

 

 

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Same arm talent as Cutler? Sure, he was incredibly talented, but to be like Cutler he'd have to be a lazy dbag so no of course not. Cutler had no heart. I prefer the Stafford and Plummer comparisons.

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I'll give the OP this: when I spent a couple minutes thinking about it (yeah, I really did that), it's kind of interesting to rephrase it:

- would you be happy if Josh Allen has a 12 year NFL career?

- would you be happy if at the end of that career, his career statistical comparables were: Ron Jaworski, Joe Flacco, Jim Everett, Matt Hasselback, Ken Stabler, Phil Simms, Andy Dalton?

Ask it that way, and as a Bills fan I say "yes." And of course the guy with the 12 year career and those comps is Cutler. But then this:

- would you be happy with a total of 2 playoff games over 12 years?

Umm, no. Not even Bills fans would be satisfied with that. Cutler was a weird one indeed.

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Omg make it stop, only 3 practice games to go!

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On 8/9/2019 at 8:13 PM, Ga boy said:

Josh is looking a lot like Jay Cutler but our guy appears to have more leadership skills.  I was always amazed that Jay could zip it all over the field with nothing to show for it.  During his 2nd season, I'd like to see Josh look more like Brett Favre than Jay.  Can he do it??

Jay Cutler?? That would be sad... 😔

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Ummm, so long as we never need to discuss Josh walking off the field looking like this, I think the bar’s low enough for Josh to comfortably “leap” over.

giphy.gif?cid=19f5b51acf40886b9c6f4fb52e

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On 8/9/2019 at 5:50 PM, Nextmanup said:

I think most folks around here are expecting him to be much better than Cutler, and would be gutted if he ended up around that level.

 

I'm not one of them.  The comp. I have been going with is Ryan Tannehill.  

 

My fear is that Allen will prove good enough to keep the illusion of quality about him for a long time, while not really being very good in the end, resulting in a prolonged Allen era where the team doesn't really go anywhere.

 

I.E., kind of like the Tannehill led Dolphins.

 

 

He'll be better than Bortles, Tannehill & Cutler Whether he becomes an elite top 10 franchise qb will depend on improving his flaws over the next 2 seasons. We'll know one way or another by 2021.

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How quickly everyone forgets torching Miami with 5 TDS to end the year.   Might be the most the fickle fan base in the NFL.   Two series into the first preseason scrimmage and the sky is falling!  Kid has put his heart and soul into this team and town, and is being picked apart by a bunch of couch potatoes for literally throwing one low pass and is being nit-picked for a dime he threw because it could have been six inches better from 20 yards.  Grow up!

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