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Hapless Bills Fan

Fitzy and the Fins (Dolphins TC)

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30 minutes ago, /dev/null said:

I'd accept a loss to the Fitzy led Dolphins, if that game convinces the Dolphins front office to give Fitzy his traditional big Fitzcontract before falling off the Fitzcliff

 

Extra credit if he plays well enough that they don't draft a QB

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5 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

😲😱

 

To be fair to both, in early Blaine Gabbert games, he had an OL and he stood like a deer in the headlights.

Rosen had no, repeat NO OL.  He could have had better protection if he stood behind 5 weighted sleds.

I will never say he had an ideal situation. But the NFL is never ideal. He didnt elevate anyone, he didnt make good throws, he didnt anticipate routes, he didnt make changes to protection. He looked like he didnt belong. The fact AZ debated on whether or not to move on is laughable. That should have been a 5 mins conversation 

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Bringing in Fitzpatrick was the worse thing the Dolphins could of done. Let Rosen play, see what he is. If he stinks, draft a qb early in the next draft, if he is good then they have their qb. Not that I am mad. 

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1 hour ago, NewDayBills said:

Rosen will be a journeyman much like Fitz. I don't think he'll be a complete bust, but will constantly float around as a marginal starter.

 

TBH, I'm not sure Rosen has the personality for that.

 

Part of the secret to Fitz long career is that he evidently possesses the quality of engaging teammates.  He's smart but he wears it lightly - as something that can help a teammate out.  He's funny; he's likeable; he engages people.

 

I think Rosen probably isn't the **** he's been portrayed as being, but I believe some reports that he thinks he's the smartest guy in the room and he lets it show.

 

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1 minute ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

TBH, I'm not sure Rosen has the personality for that.

 

Part of the secret to Fitz long career is that he evidently possesses the quality of engaging teammates.  He's smart but he wears it lightly - as something that can help a teammate out.  He's funny; he's likeable; he engages people.

 

I think Rosen probably isn't the **** he's been portrayed as being, but I believe some reports that he thinks he's the smartest guy in the room and he lets it show.

 

I meant by career trajectory, not personality or playstyle. Good enough to where he gets picked up and starts yet bad enough as to where nobody is willing to commit to him long term.

 

 

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38 minutes ago, CNY315 said:

 

I think enough time has passed that they can bring back Chris Foerster. Miami isn't Salt Lake City, you don't need the full 2 year timeout for blow & hookers.

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Just now, NewDayBills said:

I meant by career trajectory, not personality or playstyle. Good enough to where he gets picked up and starts yet bad enough as to where nobody is willing to commit to him long term.

 

I understand.  But I think part of the reason that Fitzy keeps getting picked up, is his personality and playstyle and that if it weren't, teams would be more apt to take a shot at a younger guy they might be able to mold.
 

Or to put it another way: for a backup QB, his personality and playstyle form a good part of what defines his career trajectory.  In my opinion of course.

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1st round QBs, especially top 10 picks are considered gold.  They don't get traded or released after 1 season.  In the 50+ years since the merger, the only 1st round QB traded a year after he was picked other than Rosen was Kelly Stouffer and the only reason he was traded was because he refused to sign with the Cardinals & sat out his rookie year.  Stouffer (6th overall pick of 1987 draft) was traded for a 5th in 1988 & a 1st & 5th in 1989.  Rosen was traded for pick 62 of the 2019 draft & a 2020 5th, basically pennies on the dollar for the 10th pick the prior year.  If Arizona thought Rosen had any long term future they 1) Wouldn't have hired a coach who wanted nothing to do with Rosen & knew he could have his pick of any QB in the 2019 draft & 2) Wouldn't have been willing to trade him for so little.  Also the fact that Arizona didn't get more shows there wasn't a lot of interest in Rosen around the league.  Clearly the NYG, Washington & Denver all thought that choosing a rookie QB was a better choice than a Rosen trade.  Arizona may have helped devalue Rosen by tipping their hand on Murray, but most of his devaluation was caused by what the rest of the league saw on film.  

 

If Rosen pans out for Miami, what it will say is Miami outsmarted the rest of the NFL.  As I've said in the past when the Bills picked up guys who if they worked out, the Bills would have outsmarted some of the best GMs in the NFL now applies to the Dolphins: They're not good enough to be considered the smartest guys in the room.  At least Buddy Nix admitted as much in a press conference.  

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20 minutes ago, Albany,n.y. said:

1st round QBs, especially top 10 picks are considered gold.  They don't get traded or released after 1 season.  In the 50+ years since the merger, the only 1st round QB traded a year after he was picked other than Rosen was Kelly Stouffer and the only reason he was traded was because he refused to sign with the Cardinals & sat out his rookie year.  Stouffer (6th overall pick of 1987 draft) was traded for a 5th in 1988 & a 1st & 5th in 1989.  Rosen was traded for pick 62 of the 2019 draft & a 2020 5th, basically pennies on the dollar for the 10th pick the prior year.  If Arizona thought Rosen had any long term future they 1) Wouldn't have hired a coach who wanted nothing to do with Rosen & knew he could have his pick of any QB in the 2019 draft & 2) Wouldn't have been willing to trade him for so little.  Also the fact that Arizona didn't get more shows there wasn't a lot of interest in Rosen around the league.  Clearly the NYG, Washington & Denver all thought that choosing a rookie QB was a better choice than a Rosen trade.  Arizona may have helped devalue Rosen by tipping their hand on Murray, but most of his devaluation was caused by what the rest of the league saw on film.  

 

If Rosen pans out for Miami, what it will say is Miami outsmarted the rest of the NFL.  As I've said in the past when the Bills picked up guys who if they worked out, the Bills would have outsmarted some of the best GMs in the NFL now applies to the Dolphins: They're not good enough to be considered the smartest guys in the room.  At least Buddy Nix admitted as much in a press conference.  

 

All that you say is fair and reasonable except:

1) Bidwell

2) Keim

I mean, you're right about Arizona not thinking Rosen had a long term future, but I'm not sure what they do truly qualifies as thinking.  Yeah, yeah, I know about Palmer and Arians winning Keim back-to-back PFT "Exec of the Year" awards, but Man!  That fell apart fast now, didn't it?

 

Flip your line of reasoning around - if Arizona's FO was capable of quality in depth football evaluation, would they have hired a HC they threw out the door 1 year later?  And would they have spent a 1st round draft pick on a QB so bad he has no future?  So now the same guys that can't pick a head coach, and are so off in their evaluation of a high draft pick that they kick him to the curb after 1 season, are football geniuses capable of assessing what players have a long term future or not?

 

Riiiiiight.

 

The Dolphins didn't have to outsmart the rest of the NFL.  They only had to outsmart the above, which is sort of like having a battle of wits with the proverbial unarmed fella.  As for the teams who wanted QB - the NFL is a streaky place.  Yes, Rosen looked bad on film, but as Deadspin notes, they "fed him to feral hogs".  But the rest of the NFL is like Whoa!  Wait - if his draft team who knows him best is giving up on the guy after one season, must be something that doesn't show that's really wrong with him.  Maybe he really is Locker Room Poison.  We'll spin the draft wheel and take a QB who hasn't spent 16 games getting eaten by feral hogs, thankyouverymuch.

 

Full disclosure: I have lived in St Louis since the early '80s.  Take that into account.

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1 hour ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

All that you say is fair and reasonable except:

1) Bidwell

2) Keim

I mean, you're right about Arizona not thinking Rosen had a long term future, but I'm not sure what they do truly qualifies as thinking.  Yeah, yeah, I know about Palmer and Arians winning Keim back-to-back PFT "Exec of the Year" awards, but Man!  That fell apart fast now, didn't it?

 

Flip your line of reasoning around - if Arizona's FO was capable of quality in depth football evaluation, would they have hired a HC they threw out the door 1 year later?  And would they have spent a 1st round draft pick on a QB so bad he has no future?  So now the same guys that can't pick a head coach, and are so off in their evaluation of a high draft pick that they kick him to the curb after 1 season, are football geniuses capable of assessing what players have a long term future or not?

 

Riiiiiight.

 

The Dolphins didn't have to outsmart the rest of the NFL.  They only had to outsmart the above, which is sort of like having a battle of wits with the proverbial unarmed fella.  As for the teams who wanted QB - the NFL is a streaky place.  Yes, Rosen looked bad on film, but as Deadspin notes, they "fed him to feral hogs".  But the rest of the NFL is like Whoa!  Wait - if his draft team who knows him best is giving up on the guy after one season, must be something that doesn't show that's really wrong with him.  Maybe he really is Locker Room Poison.  We'll spin the draft wheel and take a QB who hasn't spent 16 games getting eaten by feral hogs, thankyouverymuch.

 

Full disclosure: I have lived in St Louis since the early '80s.  Take that into account.

Here's the problem beyond just the 3 teams (NYG, WAS, DEN)  that took rookies over Rosen before pick 62:  

 

NE, who, like it or not, may be the smartest guys in the room made no attempt to deal for Rosen even after a 1st rounder was off the table.  You would think picking up a QB who was a top 10 pick a year before and has 3 more years left on a pretty cheap contract would be good insurance for a 40 something Tom Brady.  They passed.  They later took a flyer on QB Jarrett Stidham in the 4th round (pick 133).  

 

The Raiders may or may not think Carr is their long term future, but they preferred Nate Peterman & Mike Glennon on the roster than any thoughts of trading for Rosen-NATE PETERMAN !!!!

 

Who did the LA Chargers pick to back up Rivers?  Not trading for the young prospect who was a top 10 pick who would be insurance against an aging Rivers, but Tyrod Taylor on his 3rd team in 3 seasons.  They later took a flyer on QB Easton Stick in the 5th (166).  

 

That raises the number to 6 teams, including the smartest guys in the room, who saw enough to not bite on using a 2nd round pick on Rosen.  5 of those teams drafted QBs, 3 before & 2 after.  Teams that also picked QBs, beside those 6 were Carolina (3, 100),  Cincinnati (4, 104), Philadelphia (5, 167), Jacksonville (6, 178) & Baltimore (6, 197).  All those teams thinking of backup QBs and none thought enough to outbid Miami's low offer for a former top 10 pick.  Even Arizona didn't want Rosen around unlike when SD drafted Rivers (actually traded Eli at #1 for Rivers at #4 plus extra picks) and kept Drew Brees for a couple of seasons.  Arizona couldn't have been more transparent unless they put the word BUST over Rosen's photo on their website prior to the trade.  

 

The Dolphins didn't outsmart anyone, no matter how incompetent the guys in Arizona are.  All the guys in Arizona proved is their own incompetence as they wasted picks 15, 79 & 152 of the 2018 draft for 1 year of Rosen, pick 62 in 2019 & a 5th in 2020.   I guess the way they felt about Rosen they feel lucky that they got pick 62 & next year's 5th.  

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