Bills Training Camp: Day 4 - 7/28

[vincec]

5 hours ago, YoloinOhio said:

 

THIS year the observations were correct!

[BillnutinHouston]

5 hours ago, MAJBobby said:

 

 

Kelly Pegula using camp to market her products. 

 

Much easier to just drill another well.

[vincec]

5 hours ago, Just Joshin' said:

Fire the trainers and conditioning staff.

More squats!

[Kelly the Dog]

21 minutes ago, Warcodered said:

I mean there was definitely a group of people that were upset with the pick but I think a lot of that came from people really wanting us to take a WR.

There were also a bunch of people, myself included, who were confused a little by the pick, didnt pay much attention to him during the year, but quite quickly saw the reasoning and watched the highlights and tape on him and fairly quickly warmed to the idea. I like it a lot now. I didnt the moment it happened.

[K-9]

1 hour ago, YoloinOhio said:

 

Low man wins as the saying goes. Nice to see.

[Troll Toll]

Call me crazy, but I think the Bills are dead set on trying to fast track the chemistry between Allen and new receivers John Brown / Cole Beasley. I’m not going to read into Foster’s reps too much. IMO Brown and Foster should be starting on the outside when the season starts. Cole and Zay can fight for slot reps.

[Victory Formation]

3 minutes ago, Troll Toll said:

Call me crazy, but I think the Bills are dead set on trying to fast track the chemistry between Allen and new receivers John Brown / Cole Beasley. I’m not going to read into Foster’s reps too much. IMO Brown and Foster should be starting on the outside when the season starts. Cole and Zay can fight for slot reps.

It'll be Brown, Jones and Beasley. Foster will come in on design plays, the others are more consistent. 

[Warcodered]

12 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

Thanks to everyone for their posts.  Excellent insights.  

 

Hapless, particularly your hard-nosed analysis of what's going on with Foster.  It sounds exactly correct. 

 

What we're seeing is what McBeane have been preaching. They want people who will compete every day, and they want at least enough talent so that the guy who competes the hardest gets the job AND can compete against NFL competition.  In this case, Foster could end up being the residue in a very public competition.  

 

You don't compete, you don't survive.  

 

And let's face it, the same thing is happening on the o line and at running back.  In fact it's happening at every position.  Don't think for a minute that those d linemen and DBs aren't competing every day. 

 

If you can say one thing about the Bills McBeane are trying to build, it's that they compete. They will compete every Sunday.  

 

This is going to be fun. 

I think you could also see it as him switching from last year being an undrafted fighting just to have a spot on the roster. To now being more like a raw high draft pick that's going to have to be on the roster or you lose him but needs to develop behind the more polished veterans. Which I think Brown is perfect for him having a similar skill set.

[Augie]

45 minutes ago, stevewin said:

But But But he's slow...

 

I feel the mea culpas for horrible post draft takes on Singletary this year might rival those for Josh the year before

 

I admit I didn’t know anything about him, but I was encouraged when it became apparent how happy @Kirby Jackson was with the pick! 

[vincec]

2 hours ago, MJS said:

I'm honestly wondering who you are talking about. AJ McCarron? Is he what passes for a game proven vet these days?

Maybe I'm in the minority, but I agree that dumping McCarron didn't affect the season one bit. Getting a draft pick for him was like stealing. The real problem was going into the season without at least a mediocre veteran on the roster to start with. But it's in the past at this point.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

5 minutes ago, Troll Toll said:

Call me crazy, but I think the Bills are dead set on trying to fast track the chemistry between Allen and new receivers John Brown / Cole Beasley. I’m not going to read into Foster’s reps too much. IMO Brown and Foster should be starting on the outside when the season starts. Cole and Zay can fight for slot reps.

 

OK Crazy

 

Unless Foster really takes a big leap in development as a complete WR (could happen) or Zay Jones is injured, it'll be Brown and Beasley for 2 WR sets and Brown, Beasley and Jones for the 3 WR sets.  Unless injuries (Avert!) Foster may see the field in 4 WR sets or for a change of pace.

Here's why: in Daboll's O, it's all about disguising the play by moving people around and changing roles.  Brown is showing he can run all the routes, so he has that element of doubt - is he gonna go deep?  or what's he gonna do?  Foster does not have that element of doubt because he doesn't yet have a complete route tree.  Zay Jones has the route tree and while he doesn't have the speed to take the top off the D (understatement) he can go deep enough. 

Foster has to show that he can focus and that he can run all the routes.  Don't get me wrong, I think he's got lots of talent, but he doesn't have lots of experience.  He is still very raw.

There is gonna be no fighting for reps with Beasley.  Unless he's injured or needs a breather, he's In.

[transplantbillsfan]

I really think they're handling the Foster situation in the manner they think will maximize his effort and output for the team long term.

 

Daboll knows Foster very well having worked with him at 'Bama. He saw what didn't work with the kid.

 

Honest question: did anyone really think it was Foster who deserved the last WR spot on our roster last year based on effort and production in training camp or preseason?

 

I thought Foster would make the roster last year because of his connection with Daboll. Then we all saw what happened when they cut him and brought him back.

 

Daboll knows how extremely talented the kid is and doesn't want to see it wasted.

 

Foster has some maturity issues he clearly needs to grow out of a bit, and I'm sure McDermott and Daboll are using all of this to get in his head and expedite the maturation process.

 

Now, I'm not saying that starting Brown over him is part of that because Brown has clearly been a monster and it'd take a lot at this point to unseat him as the #1 WR.

 

However, on a day when Zay doesn't participate and instead of Foster, Cam Phillips is inserted, I'm sure a big part of that was to tell Foster it's time to get in gear in terms of attitude, because from the tweets and TC reports I've been reading, the issue with Foster right now isn't in his play, but is his head and attitude.

Edited July 28, 2019 by transplantbillsfan

[Shaw66]

15 minutes ago, Warcodered said:

I think you could also see it as him switching from last year being an undrafted fighting just to have a spot on the roster. To now being more like a raw high draft pick that's going to have to be on the roster or you lose him but needs to develop behind the more polished veterans. Which I think Brown is perfect for him having a similar skill set.

Yeah, that's a fair take on it, but I don't think it really matters to McDermott.  You simply have to win your spot, every week.  You would have thought Foster learned that last year, but apparently not.  

 

Yeah, he should learn from Brown.  And it has to happen every day.  Buottom line, if you want to be on the team, you have to be better than all but four or five guys, day in and day out, or it ain't happening.

 

If he is not taking snaps from Beasley, Brown or Jones, he had better win  against just about everyone else.  

[BeginnersMind]

Foster was a great story last year. But in many ways all he did was survive until trash wideouts dropped and Josh was a better QB. If he wants to prove that he’s more than the tallest Lilliputian, he needs to earn it. I hope he does because he was fun. But I don’t expect last year’s UDFA to best out Beasley and Brown. 

[Troll Toll]

22 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

OK Crazy

 

Unless Foster really takes a big leap in development as a complete WR (could happen) or Zay Jones is injured, it'll be Brown and Beasley for 2 WR sets and Brown, Beasley and Jones for the 3 WR sets.  Unless injuries (Avert!) Foster may see the field in 4 WR sets or for a change of pace.

Here's why: in Daboll's O, it's all about disguising the play by moving people around and changing roles.  Brown is showing he can run all the routes, so he has that element of doubt - is he gonna go deep?  or what's he gonna do?  Foster does not have that element of doubt because he doesn't yet have a complete route tree.  Zay Jones has the route tree and while he doesn't have the speed to take the top off the D (understatement) he can go deep enough. 

Foster has to show that he can focus and that he can run all the routes.  Don't get me wrong, I think he's got lots of talent, but he doesn't have lots of experience.  He is still very raw.

There is gonna be no fighting for reps with Beasley.  Unless he's injured or needs a breather, he's In.

I respect your assessment, but some of the posts in this thread give off the vibe that by Day 4 of camp it is already crisis mode for Foster. So he lined up wrong on a play, big deal. The roster has changed, but I don’t think there has been any major shift in the way the coaches feel about Foster. I think we’re witnessing the outcome of adding 2 WR moreso than we are seeing any kind of punishment to Foster.

[GunnerBill]

2 hours ago, Lafromboise said:

Thats one jaked 15 year old..

 

They grow up so quickly these days. 

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

36 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

OK Crazy

 

Unless Foster really takes a big leap in development as a complete WR (could happen) or Zay Jones is injured, it'll be Brown and Beasley for 2 WR sets and Brown, Beasley and Jones for the 3 WR sets.  Unless injuries (Avert!) Foster may see the field in 4 WR sets or for a change of pace.

Here's why: in Daboll's O, it's all about disguising the play by moving people around and changing roles.  Brown is showing he can run all the routes, so he has that element of doubt - is he gonna go deep?  or what's he gonna do?  Foster does not have that element of doubt because he doesn't yet have a complete route tree.  Zay Jones has the route tree and while he doesn't have the speed to take the top off the D (understatement) he can go deep enough. 

Foster has to show that he can focus and that he can run all the routes.  Don't get me wrong, I think he's got lots of talent, but he doesn't have lots of experience.  He is still very raw.

There is gonna be no fighting for reps with Beasley.  Unless he's injured or needs a breather, he's In.

 

This is a good summary of the top 4 WRs.

 

Brown is a far better version of Foster. Beas is a borderline elite slot, but isn’t outrunning anemone in a straight line,  Zay can probably do everything competently. 

 

Foster is the fourth best guy right now. 

[Magox]

1 hour ago, stevewin said:

But But But he's slow...

 

I feel the mea culpas for horrible post draft takes on Singletary this year might rival those for Josh the year before

This is where people too often make a mistake, they look at his 40 speed and make an immediate determination on his speed.   There are different kinds of speed, it's true that if he gets out to the open field his top line speed is limited and he wont pull away from many defenders.  However, anyone that has watched decent bit of film of him can clearly see that he has lots of acceleration.  He has the speed to pull away early and burst through holes or around the corner, just that once he gets into the open field hes not gonna kick into high gear.

 

His acceleration is well above average.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

1 hour ago, Troll Toll said:

I respect your assessment, but some of the posts in this thread give off the vibe that by Day 4 of camp it is already crisis mode for Foster. So he lined up wrong on a play, big deal. The roster has changed, but I don’t think there has been any major shift in the way the coaches feel about Foster. I think we’re witnessing the outcome of adding 2 WR moreso than we are seeing any kind of punishment to Foster.

 

Well, I don't see what you see in some of the posts.  I think some of the people responding are inferring that "vibe"  - see below regarding your reference to "any kind of punishment".  I don't think anyone is saying Foster is being "punished".  But he's not going to be given a starting role ahead of guys who show a more complete set of WR skills this year either just 'cuz "fast" or "better alternative than Andre Holmes or Jeremy Kerley" unless (avert!) injuries.

 

It's not that Foster lined up wrong on a play that gives pause - I think we all recognize that even with the best amateurs and with media professionals, they call out what they notice and maybe Beasley lined up wrong on a play a couple times and Josh Allen had to tell Brown where to position but it didn't strike anyone.

 

It's the fact that McDermott felt the need say what he said in his morning presser, COMBINED with the lined up wrong and the walking and the dropped pass and the difference between his ability to track the ball and adjust or make the contested catch on the deep ball vs Brown's, that have people going "hmmmm".

Surely we are witnessing the outcome of adding quality to our WR room, but the effect is the same.

 

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

9 minutes ago, Troll Toll said:

I respect your assessment, but some of the posts in this thread give off the vibe that by Day 4 of camp it is already crisis mode for Foster. So he lined up wrong on a play, big deal. The roster has changed, but I don’t think there has been any major shift in the way the coaches feel about Foster. I think we’re witnessing the outcome of adding 2 WR moreso than we are seeing any kind of punishment to Foster.

 

Mental mistakes and attitude carry a lot of weight even in high school preseason camps. I sure hope that’s the last of that, for his sake. A pattern might land him back on the street.