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Buffalo716

Baldy's Breakdown (Tremaine Edmunds)

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7 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

I liked the Edmunds pick a lot........but as an edge player..........I will believe putting him at MLB is worth it when I see it.

 

It's great having a MLB with a 7' wingspan but it's not so great when a stout RB puts a helmet under his chin and sends him into concussion protocol..........there are reasons why guys with pass rusher frames don't play MLB.

 

Even if he starts reacting quicker and making better decisions he doesn't have the frame to be expected to endure 150+ collisions with ball carriers for long, IMO. 

 

After another concussion I wouldn't be surprised to see his agent suggest a position change.    Lot more money rushing the passer for 12 years than getting concussed out of the league in 6-7 playing a lower paying position.  

 

His dad learned what happens to players that play a position that takes an extraordinary beating.   Pro Bowl TE 2 of his first 3 seasons and then the wear and tear reduced him to a role player for what was left.   Never got the big pay day.

 

If the Panthers get off to a bad start maybe McBeane can trade for Keuchly and get the last good couple years out of him.

 

 

Bado -

 

Very insightful, until you get to the end.  Keuchly already has had his share of concussions, so his playing time may be less than you might think, for exactly the reasons you give about Edmunds.

 

The concussion risk is hard to measure.  But for the concussion risk, it would be foolish to move Edmunds to the outside, because the middle is more important and he projects to be an all-time great in the middle.  He almost certainly will add weight, so he should be a good run stopper to go with his fantastic ability to cover space in the middle passing game.  He's a fantastic weapon.  

 

But as you say, the important question for him and for the Bills is do you want a fantastic weapon in the middle for two or three years or a wicked outside linebacker for eight or ten?  If Edmunds' concussions are behind him, he should stay in the middle.  If he's going to have more, he should move.  Tough call.  

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2 hours ago, Logic said:

Clearly Edmunds should be moved to OLB 

🙄

 

Keeping Edmunds at MLB reflects the change in the league. What we lose in run defense, we more than make up for in the way he affects the middle of the field in the passing game.  For whatever reason the board freaks out about the run defense, but it reads as though those are the same fans that don't realize how defense is evolving to the passing league. 

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There's a lot of talk about how horrible the Bills' run defense was last year (they DID look bad in 2-3 games), and that the only reason their pass D was #1 is because teams didn't need to throw as much.  Some perspective:

 

Rush yards/carry against:  4.2 (10th best; league average was 4.4)

Rush attempts against:  440 (10th most; league average was 414.8)

 

So, teams only ran against the Bills approximately 1.5 more times per game than the league average, for 0.2 fewer yards/carry.

 

Funny what happens when you don't just look at 2-3 games out of a 16-game schedule, huh?

 

I expect the run defense to improve this year -- but it's already at least decent.  Where the Bills really need to improve is on offense and ST, and not giving teams short fields.

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22 minutes ago, eball said:

There's a lot of talk about how horrible the Bills' run defense was last year (they DID look bad in 2-3 games), and that the only reason their pass D was #1 is because teams didn't need to throw as much.  Some perspective:

 

Rush yards/carry against:  4.2 (10th best; league average was 4.4)

Rush attempts against:  440 (10th most; league average was 414.8)

 

So, teams only ran against the Bills approximately 1.5 more times per game than the league average, for 0.2 fewer yards/carry.

 

Funny what happens when you don't just look at 2-3 games out of a 16-game schedule, huh?

 

I expect the run defense to improve this year -- but it's already at least decent.  Where the Bills really need to improve is on offense and ST, and not giving teams short fields.

For sure there were some ugly games but the 16 game sample showed some potential

 

Milano is a heat seekingg missile and Lorenzo is underated as a Sam

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18 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said:

For sure there were some ugly games but the 16 game sample showed some potential

 

Milano is a heat seekingg missile and Lorenzo is underated as a Sam


It may sound crazy, but the loss of Taron Johnson really hurt the run defense, too. Johnson is a fearless and productive tackler. Whenever the Bills were in nickel personnel, he was almost like a third linebacker out there, in terms of run support. His return to the starting lineup this season will be an added boost to the run defense.

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2 minutes ago, Logic said:


It may sound crazy, but the loss of Taron Johnson really hurt the run defense, too. Johnson is a fearless and productive tackler. Whenever the Bills were in nickel personnel, he was almost like a third linebacker out there, in terms of run support. His return to the starting lineup this season will be an added boost to the run defense.

Oh it definitely hurt

 

Johnson from day 1 was our best rookie all year. Absolutely stud in the slot

 

Modern NFL is going all nickel so you need that too...

 

His injury definitely hurt and I think he will bounce back beautifully

 

When we drafted him I made a thread calling him the steal of our draft

 

He is so tough, Antoine Winfield like

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1 hour ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

I liked the Edmunds pick a lot........but as an edge player..........I will believe putting him at MLB is worth it when I see it.

 

It's great having a MLB with a 7' wingspan but it's not so great when a stout RB puts a helmet under his chin and sends him into concussion protocol..........there are reasons why guys with pass rusher frames don't play MLB.

 

Even if he starts reacting quicker and making better decisions he doesn't have the frame to be expected to endure 150+ collisions with ball carriers for long, IMO. 

 

After another concussion I wouldn't be surprised to see his agent suggest a position change.    Lot more money rushing the passer for 12 years than getting concussed out of the league in 6-7 playing a lower paying position.  

 

His dad learned what happens to players that play a position that takes an extraordinary beating.   Pro Bowl TE 2 of his first 3 seasons and then the wear and tear reduced him to a role player for what was left.   Never got the big pay day.

 

If the Panthers get off to a bad start maybe McBeane can trade for Keuchly and get the last good couple years out of him.

 

 


I'm curious to know why people think Edmunds can be a productive full time edge rusher. He's never done it. He was an OLB in college, yes, but not an edge rusher.

I'm not saying you can't have a package of plays where Edmunds lines up on the edge. I'm not saying he definitely can't do it. But his definitely being productive there full time? Where's the proof that he can do so? 

I think people underestimate the conundrum that a MLB with Edmunds' size and wingspan presents for opposing offenses. We saw on numerous occasions (some of which are shown in Baldy's video) that quarterbacks threw balls that they THOUGHT they could get over Edmunds, but they couldn't. The best example all year was his interception of Tannehill in the second Dolphins game. Watch that play again in slow motion. There is no WAY Edmunds should be anywhere near picking that ball off. The fact that he did so shows exactly why he will be such a dangerous threat at middle linebacker.

Put it this way: There's no proof that, as an edge rusher, he'd be anything better than average. Maybe he could, but he didn't do it in college, and there's no proof that he could do it in the NFL. On the other hand, we know FOR SURE that he can be an elite MLB, because he showed at the end of last year that he is already on that trajectory. 120 tackles, 2 sacks, 2FFs, 2 INTs, leading the team in passes defended....All as a 20-year-old rookie playing the position for the first time in his life. Like Micah Hyde says, Edmunds has gold jacket potential as an MLB. Does he have that as an edge rusher? If so, on what evidence are you basing that claim?

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2 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

I liked the Edmunds pick a lot........but as an edge player..........I will believe putting him at MLB is worth it when I see it.

 

It's great having a MLB with a 7' wingspan but it's not so great when a stout RB puts a helmet under his chin and sends him into concussion protocol..........there are reasons why guys with pass rusher frames don't play MLB.

 

Even if he starts reacting quicker and making better decisions he doesn't have the frame to be expected to endure 150+ collisions with ball carriers for long, IMO. 

 

After another concussion I wouldn't be surprised to see his agent suggest a position change.    Lot more money rushing the passer for 12 years than getting concussed out of the league in 6-7 playing a lower paying position.  

 

His dad learned what happens to players that play a position that takes an extraordinary beating.   Pro Bowl TE 2 of his first 3 seasons and then the wear and tear reduced him to a role player for what was left.   Never got the big pay day.

 

If the Panthers get off to a bad start maybe McBeane can trade for Keuchly and get the last good couple years out of him.

 

 

I love you....

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1 hour ago, Buffalo716 said:

For sure there were some ugly games but the 16 game sample showed some potential

 

Milano is a heat seekingg missile and Lorenzo is underated as a Sam

 

1. Edmunds-pretty damn good start for a 20 yr old playing MLB for his first time

2. Milano-yet another 5th round find (Meatball, hopefully Neal from 2018 and the Joseph kid in 2019).

3.Lorax-as Tasker said, "the ageless wonder".

 

....not too bad IMO.......

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1) I love Edmunds

2) Concussions scare me

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I love the potential Edmunds has and he is far from a problem.  But given the trade up, he needs to be a Luke Kuechly type player.  It’s why non qb trade ups are so risky.  We gave up picks and passed on two guys who were better than Edmunds as rookies, LVE and Leonard.  

 

MLB is a very instinctive position and some of that is innate.  TE is probably one of the best defensive athletes in the nfl.  I think he can be a very good MLB but I wonder if he would be an even better OLB.  

1 hour ago, Augie said:

1) I love Edmunds

2) Concussions scare me

Concussions are fake news.  As my coach told me, it’s just getting your bell rung and put some dirt on it.  Concussions separate the mentally weak from the strong.  The more concussions you get, the better of a man you are. 

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4 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

I love the potential Edmunds has and he is far from a problem.  But given the trade up, he needs to be a Luke Kuechly type player.  It’s why non qb trade ups are so risky.  We gave up picks and passed on two guys who were better than Edmunds as rookies, LVE and Leonard.  

 

MLB is a very instinctive position and some of that is innate.  TE is probably one of the best defensive athletes in the nfl.  I think he can be a very good MLB but I wonder if he would be an even better OLB.  

Concussions are fake news.  As my coach told me, it’s just getting your bell rung and put some dirt on it.  Concussions separate the mentally weak from the strong.  The more concussions you get, the better of a man you are. 

 

...so how long has he been at Rikers?...SMH.......

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4 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

 

Concussions are fake news.  As my coach told me, it’s just getting your bell rung and put some dirt on it.  Concussions separate the mentally weak from the strong.  The more concussions you get, the better of a man you are. 

 

Your coach sounds like he knew a lot about concussions, from personal experience!   I’m sure he was a GREAT man! 

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On 7/17/2019 at 5:30 AM, eball said:

As I've been saying all along, the Bills knew their chances of truly competing last season were slim and as a result they got a somewhat raw guy like Tremaine a "free" year of starting experience in the NFL.  I think it is a mistake to equate some of Edmunds' "struggles" last year (particularly against the run) with the notion that he is not "instinctive" or won't be a top level MLB.  The dude was 20 and was tasked with running the defense!

 

There are some great parallels between Edmunds and Allen, actually.  Two raw prospects with oodles of talent who both got "thrown into the fire" last season with mixed results but who showed a lot of promise as the season wore on.

 

Excited to see what year two brings for both of these guys.

Also teams are playing a lot more nickel and dime formations that put a lot more pressure on MLB's. I am amazed with the season Edmunds had last year. I think in 2 more years he will be known as the best MLB in the NFL. This defense could be really nasty this year, if we can stay healthy I see a defense that will be pushing the Bears for that #1 spot.

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2 hours ago, Call_Of_Ktulu said:

Also teams are playing a lot more nickel and dime formations that put a lot more pressure on MLB's. I am amazed with the season Edmunds had last year. I think in 2 more years he will be known as the best MLB in the NFL. This defense could be really nasty this year, if we can stay healthy I see a defense that will be pushing the Bears for that #1 spot.

We lack that elite pass rusher like they have.  I just don’t think Hughes or Murphy are good enough.  Still a lot of very good pieces on the defense. 

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22 hours ago, Shaw66 said:

Bado -

 

Very insightful, until you get to the end.  Keuchly already has had his share of concussions, so his playing time may be less than you might think, for exactly the reasons you give about Edmunds.

 

The concussion risk is hard to measure.  But for the concussion risk, it would be foolish to move Edmunds to the outside, because the middle is more important and he projects to be an all-time great in the middle.  He almost certainly will add weight, so he should be a good run stopper to go with his fantastic ability to cover space in the middle passing game.  He's a fantastic weapon.  

 

But as you say, the important question for him and for the Bills is do you want a fantastic weapon in the middle for two or three years or a wicked outside linebacker for eight or ten?  If Edmunds' concussions are behind him, he should stay in the middle.  If he's going to have more, he should move.  Tough call.  

 

 

Oh I know Keuchly is getting busted up but when healthy you know for a fact that he is really good in a McDefense.

 

I think he's probably got a couple very good years left but with all the concussions who knows.

 

This season his cap number jumps up greatly and the thing with MLB's is that if they aren't GREAT and the team isn't winning those cap hits will draw attention.    It's one of those positions where it's easy for a team to think they could get by with less for a fraction of the cost.  

 

I wouldn't be shocked to see Julian Stanford start a lot of games for the Bills at MLB either........he is a great athlete and in the physical mold of what a lot of teams are looking for in a MLB or ILB now himself and was fine as a sub for Edmunds when he was out concussed last season.    If Edmunds gets hurt or struggles I'd rather see 2-3 games of Stanford at the position before making a trade.   

 

The Panthers have the potential to be a mess this year though so combined with the uncertainty about Edmunds at the position it bears consideration.   

 

 

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@BADOLBILZ, we have very similar view on Edmunds..and i was surprised to see we have the same view on Stanford. I must be getting dumb in my age😂

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42 minutes ago, plenzmd1 said:

@BADOLBILZ, we have very similar view on Edmunds..and i was surprised to see we have the same view on Stanford. I must be getting dumb in my age😂

 

I'll believe that when you start agreeing with @JohnC about the Sabres.  :lol:

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2 minutes ago, eball said:

 

I'll believe that when you start agreeing with @JohnC about the Sabres.  :lol:

 It would be an unnatural act. Mother Nature would never allow it. :ph34r:

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3 hours ago, plenzmd1 said:

@BADOLBILZ, we have very similar view on Edmunds..and i was surprised to see we have the same view on Stanford. I must be getting dumb in my age😂

 

 

Just wising up it must be.:thumbsup:

 

Stanford is a tremendous athlete.   Doesn't mean he's up to being a regular MLB'er but he came to the Bills with a rep as a guy who just needed a chance and he looked good when he got it.   Also at some point you need to find bargain producers.   Not going to be able to go out in FA and spend $4M-$10M on every position of need.........gotta' find some veteran producers on the cheap to stay ahead of the salary cap game.

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17 hours ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

I just don’t think Hughes or Murphy are good enough

 

Another solid take!

 

You can critique a lot of things about the Bills, but it's hard to fathom including Hughes' play as one of them.

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1 hour ago, eball said:

 

Another solid take!

 

You can critique a lot of things about the Bills, but it's hard to fathom including Hughes' play as one of them.

If Oliver is as advertised I think his presence ensures Hughes gets home 3 or 4 more times this year. 

 

Im cautiously optimistic we finally see another double digit sack season out of Jerry. 

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I've never seen anyone like him. Urlacher maybe? He's 6'5 and 250, last year he was only 20 so he could still add a few pounds. Crazy.

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On 7/17/2019 at 11:21 AM, T master said:

 

That would be cool ! In B/lo ? 

No it was here in Danville Va

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On 7/17/2019 at 12:45 PM, Logic said:


It may sound crazy, but the loss of Taron Johnson really hurt the run defense, too. Johnson is a fearless and productive tackler. Whenever the Bills were in nickel personnel, he was almost like a third linebacker out there, in terms of run support. His return to the starting lineup this season will be an added boost to the run defense.

Agreed.....and improving the secondary as a whole also helps because injuries are just gonna happen.

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