Jump to content
Gugny

Who's Most Responsible for Pats* Dynasty: Brady or Belichick?

Who's Most Responsible for Pats* Dynasty: Brady or Belichick?  

232 members have voted

  1. 1. Who's Most Responsible for Pats* Dynasty: Brady or Belichick?



Recommended Posts

3 minutes ago, OldTimeAFLGuy said:

 

 

....how many sports teams "push the envelope" in reality?......some get caught and many do not.....the era of hockey stick legal curvatures....MLB and the "Juiced Era".......George Brett and pine tar.....Gaylord Perry et al with the spitter.......the list goes on....Pats are the MOST hated because of their dynasty.......

Taping signals and who the hell knows what else happens with the headsets in Foxborough are more than just pushing the envelope.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, Ethan in Portland said:

Taping signals and who the hell knows what else happens with the headsets in Foxborough are more than just pushing the envelope.

 

....a matter of one's opinion......we disagree but respecting yours is how this place is supposed to work.........:thumbsup:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
40 minutes ago, K-9 said:

Right? Right what? I'm not trying to make a point here one way or the other. You asked what Belichick's record was without Brady and I simply furnished the information you requested. You're welcome. 

 

I said right as in you are right.

 

Relax for Christ sake.

  • Haha (+1) 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 minutes ago, H2o said:

I got Brady. How many SB wins do the Pats have without him as the starter?

 

Which begs the question: how many SB’s do they have without BB as the HC? 

 

I get it, Brady is the GOAT, and so is his HC. Aren’t we just a bunch of lucky losers! Ugh......no wonder we all get crazy sometimes....

  • Thanks! (+1) 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 minutes ago, K-9 said:

That’s true and while I understand that what he does may not be a violation of the rules per se, he isn’t above violating the “spirit” of the rules when he gets a chance. Like a couple years ago when he bent them with his substations vs. Baltimore in the playoffs. I don’t respect that about him at all. 

 

12 minutes ago, OldTimeAFLGuy said:

 

 

....how many sports teams "push the envelope" in reality?......some get caught and many do not.....the era of hockey stick legal curvatures....MLB and the "Juiced Era".......George Brett and pine tar.....Gaylord Perry et al with the spitter.......the list goes on....Pats are the MOST hated because of their dynasty.......

 

BB will bend the rules until he gets caught.  Unfortunately, the Pats* have usually cashed in multiple times before getting called for it.

  • Like (+1) 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Rocky Landing said:

How come Satan isn't one of the options?

 

Now that’s funny.  I swear we are watching the Evil Empire and should play the Darth Vader music when they enter the field.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
15 minutes ago, Binghamton Beast said:

 

I said right as in you are right.

 

Relax for Christ sake.

Right.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Belichick. He coached up Brady to what he is today. You have to give Brady credit for being coachable though. Bledsoe, Garrapolo, Cassel and others all looked good under Belichick, but I do concede that none of them would have been as successful as Brady. Brady is very good, but Belichick would have multiple rings without him, albeit nowhere near as many. 60% Belichick, 40% Brady. Brady wouldn't have been Brady on the Bills, the coaching just wasn't there.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
58 minutes ago, JayBaller10 said:

Belichek isn’t throwing those clutch passes on the field. There’s only so much a coach can do, the players have to execute and he has arguably the greatest of all time at the most important position on the field. Some will point to Belichek’s 13-6 record without Brady and I’d say that sort of success wouldn’t be sustainable. I’d use his record as head coach prior to Brady taking the field to support my argument.

 

Agree. BB Wins 41 Lose 55, prior to Boy Wonder..If BB is a football wizard, he could have worked his magic when coaching the Browns those 5/6 years they failed under him there. And the 1st year he coached Patriots, he failed as a coach there. It isn’t coincidence that he started succeeding regularly when Tommy Boy became starter. This does not mean I think BB is a bad coach, but just not as great as everyone thinks. Yes, he has more control now with the Pats, than with the Browns, and thus perhaps better players for his system, but they say BB can get the most out of average Joes. Well, he as coach did not prior to Brady.

  • Thanks! (+1) 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It’s interesting if you look at Bill’s head coaching record pre 2001 in those six years his win loss record is about the exact same as Rich Kotite’s six year head coaching run.  Jets fans will tell you Kotite was the worst coach ever.

 

I think Bill and Tom need each other, so I didn’t vote.  Without each other imo they are both just run of the mill coaches and players 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

That 13-6 record without Brady is a case of blatant cherry picking.

 

His record without Brady in NE is 18-17. Why in the world is Belichick's first season exempt? When you factor in his time in Cleveland, he has a losing record without Brady.

  • Like (+1) 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This is a tough one, but I voted Belichick. I will say Brady not taking the max money a QB can get helps BB fill out the roster as a deep team. This is why they are still strong by weeks 12-16. That is a strong advantage most teams don't have. A deep team nowadays usually has a QB on his 1st contract and can spend money elsewhere. Once they get paid (Brees, Russell Wilson, etc.), it's really hard to field such a deep team. Having said this, I voted BB because his teams have the ability to take advantage of the opposition's weakness. One week they will run the ball down the throat of a team that is weak against the run, the next week they throw for 450 yds and 4 tds against a weak secondary. Everyone wants to take advantage of the other team's weakness, doing it is another story. BB has proven to be able to do that.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
56 minutes ago, H2o said:

I got Brady. How many SB wins do the Pats have without him as the starter?

 

Umm......the same number they have without BB as coach?

 

BB creates ridiculous game plans to shut down opponents even with average talent, offensive game plans that turns average guys into wildly productive WR/RBs, blocking schemes that protect his QB, etc.

  • Like (+1) 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
41 minutes ago, LSHMEAB said:

That 13-6 record without Brady is a case of blatant cherry picking.

 

His record without Brady in NE is 18-17. Why in the world is Belichick's first season exempt? When you factor in his time in Cleveland, he has a losing record without Brady.

Yep. Cherry picking at its finest. Does Marv Levy get credit for great coaching when Kelly was out and Reich stepped in to QB a stacked team ? Of course not. Most of the Brady- less wins came in ‘08 with Cassel guiding a team that went 16-0 in the prior regular season. Garrapolo was a fine backup , but the vaunted B.B. couldn’t defeat the Bills with the shmnuck QB that filled in for him. Belichick is a fine defensive coach ( why he gets so much credit for the offense on this board makes zero sense.), but defense doesn’t matter as much in the current NFL . Certainly not as much as it did in the early part of the Brady run. Just look at Belichicks record as HC prior to Brady. No excuses, just the record. As much as I hate the guy, it’s about 70% + Brady. To say he wouldn’t have been great on the Bills ( or anywhere else) is flat out laughable. The guy is self motivated , and crediting his abilities to any coach is crazy. You can’t make a silk purse from a sows ear. Give a healthy dose of credit for the offense to Josh McDaniels, regardless of his failures as a HC. He schemes up perfect gameplans for that team. This ones pretty easy folks. It’s TB. Superanalyzing the Pats seems to obscure the obvious. What the heck have we all been clamoring for on the board for years on end ? A great QB. Not a coach, a QB. It’s what matters. Now, can we stop with the Pats threads? 

Edited by Boatdrinks
  • Like (+1) 1
  • Thanks! (+1) 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Gugny said:

Agree 100% with all of this.

I'll also add that Belichick knows the NFL rules better than anyone on earth - and he uses that knowledge to his advantage.

What most people call "cheating," is really just knowing the rules and using them to their benefit.

 

The second sentence is correct.

 

The third sentence should be re-written "some of what people call "cheating" is really just knowing the rules....

 

I don't think there should be much doubt at this point that some of what people call "cheating" by Belichick and the Pats, is just cheating (Spygate, radio shenanigans etc)

 

  • Like (+1) 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, H2o said:

I got Brady. How many SB wins do the Pats have without him as the starter?

 

Maybe none.  I voted Belichick, but without one, the other wouldn't be anywhere near as successful.  The Pats got the right combination between the two, whether luck or very keen insight...not sure which.  

 

12 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

I don't think there should be much doubt at this point that some of what people call "cheating" by Belichick and the Pats, is just cheating (Spygate, radio shenanigans etc)

 

 

If you're not cheating, you're not trying...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Belichick AND Ernie Adams!

  • Like (+1) 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, PromoTheRobot said:

Belichick AND Ernie Adams!

 

Yeah, I do wonder exactly how ol’ Ernie spends his days! What kind of shenanigans occupy his calendar? 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Brady is on record of saying that he's a product of his environment. So, yes, Belichick. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, K-9 said:

 

From ABC news:

 

 

 

Sure but he’s actually 54-61 lifetime without Brady at QB. And the majority of the 13 wins referenced were with basically the same roster that had nearly gone undefeated the season prior. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, Rocky Landing said:

How come Satan isn't one of the options?

 

Satan is there, the second choice

Edited by Over 29 years of fanhood

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Belichick probably had more to do with this past seasons super bowl win in shutting down the Rams. And if they continue to play at a high level the next few years, It will likely be in part to BB assembling 6 draft picks in the first 3 rounds this past draft. He's restocking the shelves as defending champion. Once he's on top, he knows better than anyone how to stay there.

  • Like (+1) 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...

×
×
  • Create New...