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PromoTheRobot

There are still 5 unsigned Rd#1 draft picks

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Rookie/ agent blackmail

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And to think Aaron Maybin held out....

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32 minutes ago, plenzmd1 said:

Offset is not the only negotiating point..timing of the bonus matters a ton too. Older Bosa argued over offset true, but Chargers wanted to pay signing bonus over installments..i think 3 payments over the course of the year but i could be wrong there. May not seem like a big deal...but think of $18 M or whatever and what that earns in a year..it matters

 

quick search yielded this

 

https://ftw.usatoday.com/2016/08/the-joey-bosa-chargers-contract-dispute-explained


I think some players / agents just want to bust balls so that in future negotiations you concede faster.

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8 hours ago, Johnny Hammersticks said:

Daniel Jones is soooooo doomed.

I think he's holding out so he doesn't have to play. Not because of the contract language. 

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52 minutes ago, The Wiz said:

I think he's holding out so he doesn't have to play. Not because of the contract language. 

 

It is possible he does not want to play during first year of NFL and this is his way to get his way.

Then Giants QB will be injured and he will be forced to play with less training.

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9 hours ago, Buffalo716 said:

Those are 2 instances like 35 years ago

 

TONS of players signed with the USFL and the AFL etc over the NFL back in the day. It didn't mean those teams were inept

 

It means the USFL teams offered more money or Playing time or both

 

If we lost a player to the CFL in 01 you'd have a more valid point but cousineau is soooo long ago

There hasn't been a league that considered itself major league since the USFL. 

 

Ralph was cheap, scrimping on coaches, GMs, players and scouts.  I wouldn't be surprised if he underpaid the waterboy.  I don't know how old you are, but we old timers saw Ralph being cheap time after time driving away good coaches (best example Chuck Knox) and hiring inept coaches on the cheap like Kay Stephenson & Hank Bullough, and who among us old timers can forget him forcing Harvey Johnson to coach twice, the 2nd time after the John Rauch debacle in 1971 where he quit after disparaging former players on WBEN 4 days before camp opened and after Ralph said he was going public to defend the 2 former Bills (McDole & Maguire) Rauch quit 5 days after camp opened.  There were many seasons where Ralph's Bills were the laughingstock of the NFL mainly due to Ralph's antics.  I have no animosity towards Ralph, but he was cheap and at times a control freak whose bad decisions led to many a losing season.  I remember the days when the Bills went like this.  The team would be good, attendance would be good.  Ralph would do something to screw it up, attendance would drop to an embarrassing level.  Ralph would then spend money to get people back in the stadium. Ralph would get complacent, again do something to screw it up, and attendance would drop. Rinse & Repeat.  I lived a mile & a half from the stadium in 1977.  I walked to the 1st 2 games. I didn't go to another one the rest of the season.  I was not alone,  I would drive past the stadium on Gameday Sundays to go to a laundromat in Hamburg & there were a ton of empty seats I could see from the road as I drove by.  After that year he hired Chuck Knox to get people to come back & build a winner.  After he alienated Knox & he left the same nonsense happened again in the early-mid 1980s.  Finally he lucked out & got a young Bill Polian who brought his mentor Marv Levy to coach & they finally had a powerful team.  Eventually he fired Polian, mainly because Polian didn't want advice from Ralph's Daughter & said nasty things about her.   

 

You can't lose players to another league if there's no competition, so you have to go back 35-40 years.  The CFL gave up on signing top USA college players long ago, gone are the days when they competed.  Before Cousineau there was Johnny Rodgers in the early 70s, but only Cousineau was the #1 overall pick to sign with the CFL.  One of the few players to jump to the CFL as a veteran was Vince Ferragamo.  The CFL competing ended in the 90s with the last major signee from an American college being Rocket Ismail. By 2001 the CFL had stopped competing, so your last sentence wasn't possible anymore.  

 

A more recent example of the Bills lowballing a player and him wanting out was Jason Peters.  In a league where franchise LTs are like gold, the Bills wouldn't pay him his worth and he forced a trade right when he was entering his prime.  

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3 hours ago, Limeaid said:

 

It is possible he does not want to play during first year of NFL and this is his way to get his way.

Then Giants QB will be injured and he will be forced to play with less training.

 

 

If he doesn't want to play yet, a one-minute conversation with coaches would accomplish that. A holdout would not be needed.

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12 hours ago, plenzmd1 said:

Offset is not the only negotiating point..timing of the bonus matters a ton too. Older Bosa argued over offset true, but Chargers wanted to pay signing bonus over installments..i think 3 payments over the course of the year but i could be wrong there. May not seem like a big deal...but think of $18 M or whatever and what that earns in a year..it matters

 

quick search yielded this

 

https://ftw.usatoday.com/2016/08/the-joey-bosa-chargers-contract-dispute-explained

And it had something to do with the California tax rates. 

12 hours ago, Buffalo Timmy said:

if you have big plans for investment the timing of bonus is big to the player- but not the owner- that kind of haggling is odd to me since it will be paid. the offsets i get since it can effect salary cap.

Chargers didn’t want to concede the bonus timing because it was a long-standing precedent. They had never done it before. As I recall, (didn’t look it up) they didn’t do it for him either. The offset was the issue they gave in to. 

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These 5 guys...and Dawson Knox.  Amirite?

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7 minutes ago, Doc said:

These 5 guys...and Dawson Knox.  Amirite?

Not sure if tongue in cheek but Knox is signed 

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2 hours ago, YoloinOhio said:

And it had something to do with the California tax rates. 

Chargers didn’t want to concede the bonus timing because it was a long-standing precedent. They had never done it before. As I recall, (didn’t look it up) they didn’t do it for him either. The offset was the issue they gave in to. 

 

The Chargers have traditionally taken some very hard lines on contracts.  IIRC the Bosa contract was held up by the Chargers not giving into offsets that players taken with his pick (and picks after his) had been getting.  Bosa was literally just asking for what was standard practice and the hold up was due to the Chargers were trying to walk that back.

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26 minutes ago, BarleyNY said:

 

The Chargers have traditionally taken some very hard lines on contracts.  IIRC the Bosa contract was held up by the Chargers not giving into offsets that players taken with his pick (and picks after his) had been getting.  Bosa was literally just asking for what was standard practice and the hold up was due to the Chargers were trying to walk that back.

It was offsets and SB payout timing. They always pay it out in increments into the next year, he wanted it all up front so he could start earning interest on it. They gave in on the offsets I think. 

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1 hour ago, Captain Hindsight said:

you are not, he is signed 

 

1 hour ago, YoloinOhio said:

Not sure if tongue in cheek but Knox is signed 

 

Yep, I knew.  Just riffing-off of that almost-epic Knox thread from weeks ago.

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39 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said:

It was offsets and SB payout timing. They always pay it out in increments into the next year, he wanted it all up front so he could start earning interest on it. They gave in on the offsets I think. 

 

That sounds right.  The Chargers seem to do stuff like that a lot though.  I understand that both sides have to negotiate, but they are one of the teams that comes off as Bush League.  They could’ve had that final deal from the start.  Instead, they held it up and created unnecessary drama and ill will.  Plus they contributed to their bad reputation.  They literally went after something that the agent could not agree to without costing himself his business.

 

Poor management has been a long standing problem for the Chargers.  That was the reason Eli Manning wouldn’t play there and it certainly was alluded to at that time.  Now we have the Melvin Gordon situation playing out.  I’m sure this has been festering and only now becoming public (by Gordon) since the season is drawing near.  I’m not one to always be on the side of the player or team or league.  There are problem agents, problem teams, players, GMs, HCs, etc.  The Chargers are a problem team.

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16 hours ago, plenzmd1 said:

Offset is not the only negotiating point..timing of the bonus matters a ton too. Older Bosa argued over offset true, but Chargers wanted to pay signing bonus over installments..i think 3 payments over the course of the year but i could be wrong there. May not seem like a big deal...but think of $18 M or whatever and what that earns in a year..it matters

 

quick search yielded this

 

https://ftw.usatoday.com/2016/08/the-joey-bosa-chargers-contract-dispute-explained

 

Yea - deferred money is a big thing agents hate.  The nationals big harper offer of 10 and 300 was actually kind of BS, since a ton of salary was deferred payments.  Owners are always about that bottom line.

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2 hours ago, Doc said:

These 5 guys...and Dawson Knox.  Amirite?

WTF is the matter with these f@#$ing guys?!?!?!?

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