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Malik McDowell Arrested

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53 minutes ago, Sig1Hunter said:

There are “a lot” of bad cops out there? You defend that position. Are you defining “bad cops” out of your belief of what cops should be doing or what the legal definition of lawful use of control is? 

 

Are there bad cops? Yes. Are there a lot? No.

 

My response to his statement about uprisings against law enforcement was controverting his accusation that these uprisings are the fault of cops. Too many people out there that have ZERO training and experience in what law enforcement officers can and can’t do are screaming their ignorant views through the stupidity megaphone of social media. Most of those people have an agenda. I don’t think that John does, but he still buys into the BS. Cops shouldn’t cuss a dude that is actively fighting them? Come on. Is a cop shooting a suspect in the back wrong? If a man is carrying a gun, running away from the cops, and ignoring commands to drop the gun, can the cops shoot him in the back? What is an unarmed suspect? Is a suspect unarmed if he attacks a cop and tries unsuccessfully to take his gun? His taser? His baton? 

 

I have ZERO issues with how this situation was handled. The cop did the best with what he had, like 99 percent of every other cop working on a daily basis. Yet, people B word and moan about language. GTFO. 

 

 

33 minutes ago, Sig1Hunter said:

For further reading, I challenge you to know and understand the SCOTUS rulings in Tennessee v Garner, and Graham v Connor...and all associated rulings. Cops know them and are bound by them. The sham trials you speak up of are based upon these well-founded legal conclusions. They aren’t based upon the beliefs of people like you, or me, or John. They are based on the rule of law. 

 

 

 

Police brutality, primarily white cops vs. "people of color," is in the news almost daily.  I'd quantify that as "a lot."  One is too many.  Daily occurrences?  That's a major problem.

 

Sham trials?  Common man.  Tell that to the families of deceased people who died at that hands of police officers who had no business drawing their guns.

 

Like I said ... it's my opinion that it's the minority of policemen who are bad.  But even 1% means a lot of people are unnecessarily dying and their killers are being protected and not convicted.  Your cited, "well-founded legal conclusions," are put into place to protect police officers - or worded in a way in which their lawyers can twist it into an acquittal.

 

Shooting an unarmed man isn't something that can be justified.  If a cop can't apprehend someone who's unarmed without shooting them, then the cop isn't fit to be a cop.

 

And I have no problem with the officer in this original video.  In fact, I commended him for NOT drawing his gun.  He's one of the responsible ones.  One of the many.

 

But there are too many who are not and we see it in the news every day.  If you want to twist and turn every one of those incidents into the black guy somehow "deserving" it, that's on you.

 

I'm better.

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1 minute ago, Gugny said:

 

 

Police brutality, primarily white cops vs. "people of color," is in the news almost daily.  I'd quantify that as "a lot."  One is too many.  Daily occurrences?  That's a major problem.

 

Sham trials?  Common man.  Tell that to the families of deceased people who died at that hands of police officers who had no business drawing their guns.

 

Like I said ... it's my opinion that it's the minority of policemen who are bad.  But even 1% means a lot of people are unnecessarily dying and their killers are being protected and not convicted.  Your cited, "well-founded legal conclusions," are put into place to protect police officers - or worded in a way in which their lawyers can twist it into an acquittal.

 

Shooting an unarmed man isn't something that can be justified.  If a cop can't apprehend someone who's unarmed without shooting them, then the cop isn't fit to be a cop.

 

And I have no problem with the officer in this original video.  In fact, I commended him for NOT drawing his gun.  He's one of the responsible ones.  One of the many.

 

But there are too many who are not and we see it in the news every day.  If you want to twist and turn every one of those incidents into the black guy somehow "deserving" it, that's on you.

 

I'm better.

 

You’re wrong. And, there’s nothing wrong with that. You don’t have a factual knowledge base. You are operating purely on what you “believe”.  I’m ignorant in working at a college doing what John does. And, I sure as heck am not going to pretend to tell you how to drop the fries in the fryer at Chick Fil A. Why? Because I have no clue on how to do it. 

 

There is a conspiracy by the legal community to protect cops?! Lmao. First of all, prosecutors are politicians and love nothing more than to hang a dirty cop high. Which is fine, hang the dirty ones high. Second of all, it’s JURIES that decide verdicts. Not the corrupt prosecutors, judges, or defense attorneys. 

 

I’m betterest. 

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3 minutes ago, Gugny said:

 

 

Police brutality, primarily white cops vs. "people of color," is in the news almost daily.  I'd quantify that as "a lot."  One is too many.  Daily occurrences?  That's a major problem.

 

Sham trials?  Common man.  Tell that to the families of deceased people who died at that hands of police officers who had no business drawing their guns.

 

Like I said ... it's my opinion that it's the minority of policemen who are bad.  But even 1% means a lot of people are unnecessarily dying and their killers are being protected and not convicted.  Your cited, "well-founded legal conclusions," are put into place to protect police officers - or worded in a way in which their lawyers can twist it into an acquittal.

 

Shooting an unarmed man isn't something that can be justified.  If a cop can't apprehend someone who's unarmed without shooting them, then the cop isn't fit to be a cop.

 

And I have no problem with the officer in this original video.  In fact, I commended him for NOT drawing his gun.  He's one of the responsible ones.  One of the many.

 

But there are too many who are not and we see it in the news every day.  If you want to twist and turn every one of those incidents into the black guy somehow "deserving" it, that's on you.

 

I'm better.

 

Just because something is in the media every day doesn’t mean it’s accurate. The majority of the dog whistling “police brutality” shouted about in the media these days is boiled down to examples of cops shooting people resisting arresting and attacking cops. There are some that are definitely wrong, and I’m sure @Sig1Hunter would condemn them when he sees them- just as I would. 

 

The reality of it is that the guy in the original video could have been shot dead and 100% deserved it. As soon as you attack a cop you forfeit the right to live. It doesn’t matter if you have a just reason to resist arrest, that’s not the time and place to make your case. If cops are abusing power and being tyrants there’s two ways to handle it- either take it to the system for justice, or do to them what our founding fathers did to the tyrant British. But the second course of action results in a lot of blood on both sides. You can’t resist and then get upset when resistance is met with bullets. 

 

Attacking anyone is a great way to get shot. 

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1 minute ago, Sig1Hunter said:

 

You’re wrong. And, there’s nothing wrong with that. You don’t have a factual knowledge base. You are operating purely on what you “believe”.  I’m ignorant in working at a college doing what John does. And, I sure as heck am not going to pretend to tell you how to drop the fries in the fryer at Chick Fil A. Why? Because I have no clue on how to do it. 

 

There is a conspiracy by the legal community to protect cops?! Lmao. First of all, prosecutors are politicians and love nothing more than to hang a dirty cop high. Which is fine, hang the dirty ones high. Second of all, it’s JURIES that decide verdicts. Not the corrupt prosecutors, judges, or defense attorneys. 

 

I’m betterest. 

 

I am not wrong.  You are wrong.  And you are biased.  Don't tell me I don't have factual knowledge, as I can read and I can watch the news.  This is not what I believe.  It is fact.  Bad white cops are mowing down unarmed black men.  Are the black men criminals?  Usually, yes.  But they are unarmed.

 

The problem is that any Joe can become a cop.  Why?  Because they're paid VERY POORLY to start.  Pathetic training.  Pathetic background checking.  And they put people out there with guns and authority.  Dangerous.  And this is the result.  People unnecessarily getting shot and killed.

 

Tell me I'm wrong all you want.  I know better.  And keep denying the "blue wall," which has existed since before either one of us was born.

 

Juries decide the verdicts.  That's cute.

 

You're smarter than this.  Your code just won't let you show it.

 

 

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Just now, Gugny said:

 

I am not wrong.  You are wrong.  And you are biased.  Don't tell me I don't have factual knowledge, as I can read and I can watch the news.  This is not what I believe.  It is fact.  Bad white cops are mowing down unarmed black men.  Are the black men criminals?  Usually, yes.  But they are unarmed.

 

The problem is that any Joe can become a cop.  Why?  Because they're paid VERY POORLY to start.  Pathetic training.  Pathetic background checking.  And they put people out there with guns and authority.  Dangerous.  And this is the result.  People unnecessarily getting shot and killed.

 

Tell me I'm wrong all you want.  I know better.  And keep denying the "blue wall," which has existed since before either one of us was born.

 

Juries decide the verdicts.  That's cute.

 

You're smarter than this.  Your code just won't let you show it.

 

 

Ok, you’re trolling. Gotta be. I’m out.

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Just now, Sig1Hunter said:

Ok, you’re trolling. Gotta be. I’m out.

 

I'm not trolling at all.  I'm simply stating that police brutality and murder is a problem in this country.  Denying it is pure idiocy.

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14 hours ago, Ol Dirty B said:

 

At least we're calling posts that actually happened stupid. Not making them up to call them stupid.

 

It was a stupid post. But I know. You old guys like to stick together, you're like hyenas

You mad bro?

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16 hours ago, Ol Dirty B said:

 

At least we're calling posts that actually happened stupid. Not making them up to call them stupid.

 

It was a stupid post. But I know. You old guys like to stick together, you're like hyenas

 

Ageist.

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18 hours ago, Gugny said:

 

Clearly, I watched the video.  The guy was sitting; not moving.  The police officer kept screaming at him to get on his stomach.  I get it.  That's what he's supposed to do and, obviously, he wanted him on his stomach.

 

My point is that the guy was still.  We'll never know, but my guess is that had the officer just kept the taser pointed at him and said, "don't move," the guy wouldn't have moved.  Then, when help arrived, he'd have been more easily able to get him in handcuffs.

the guy was sitting not listening to the office after he already assaulted the officer. I think that cop showed a lot of restraint not to shoot the guy. If you are that cop and this mammoth person that already tried to fight with you isn't listening are you really trusting that if you tell him don't move he will listen. Cmon man that's crap. This whole situation never had to be what it was if he just listened and complied. These officers that do things like that are the ones that end up dying on duty. This whole discussion is mind blowing to me that even after watching that video that anyone could badmouth that cop. that man deserves a medal for showing that much restraint especially after Mcdowell got his taser from him and he reached for the female officers gun. He doesn't know this guy and has no clue what his intentions are. He already man handled him and took his Taser. I understand there are bad police and bad police shootings but if he would've shot in this instance its a clean shoot in my opinion

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18 hours ago, DaBillsFanSince1973 said:

key word, if. lets just say it's a good thing you're not a cop. I know that there will be and are times of justification where they may need to unload a clip on a suspect but it seems to me, the mentality has gone over board with cops (I know, some cops are being killed too) where they seem to have become trial/judge/convicter all in one with shooting first and asking questions later. 

 

it is wise in these times to follow orders when dealing with trigger happy cops.

See thinking like this is the problem. The fact u defend this guy with his entitled attitude instead of the guy putting his life on the line is a joke. The mentality of cops have changed because the mentality and actions of criminals have changed. More cops are dying in the field now more than ever. That coincides with more civilians being killed now more than ever. It is wise to follow orders when dealing with a cop. When you don't things escalate and people get shot, cops and civilians. Follow orders and you wont get shot its simple! I understand their are one offs for everything but you have people these days feel the need to argue with police about everything. This dude spun out at a gas station while drunk and the cop told him to sit in the car. Stay in the friggen car and none of this happens. Instead he goes in the gas station acts like a tough guy wrestles with the cop  and takes his taser. The cop is out matched and cant possible wrestle with this guy, so yea I guess its a good thing I'm not a cop because I would've wanted to get home to see my kids and shot him. We all know how it worked out now but at that time the cop had no clue what this guy was gonna do. Once he took that taser he essentially armed himself and its not completely crazy to think that hed want to hurt you. My rant is over now. there are just gonna always be people that condemn all actions by police even if they are justified 

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8 hours ago, Gugny said:

 

I am not wrong.  You are wrong.  And you are biased.  Don't tell me I don't have factual knowledge, as I can read and I can watch the news.  This is not what I believe.  It is fact.  Bad white cops are mowing down unarmed black men.  Are the black men criminals?  Usually, yes.  But they are unarmed.

 

The problem is that any Joe can become a cop.  Why?  Because they're paid VERY POORLY to start.  Pathetic training.  Pathetic background checking.  And they put people out there with guns and authority.  Dangerous.  And this is the result.  People unnecessarily getting shot and killed.

 

Tell me I'm wrong all you want.  I know better.  And keep denying the "blue wall," which has existed since before either one of us was born.

 

Juries decide the verdicts.  That's cute.

 

You're smarter than this.  Your code just won't let you show it.

 

 

 

I don’t think you have the slightest idea of the training cops go through. That might be an all time terrible take.  

 

You mention the cops in the media daily for racist attacks. When you boil them down most are not racist after there is context explained.   What you don’t see is the daily attacks on officers cause it doesn’t make good news.  Those by far outnumber the bad cop videos and it’s not even close. 1000 to 1 or more 

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On 7/9/2019 at 1:09 PM, Gugny said:

The officer told him to sit and he sat.

 

The officer then started using profanities, which was totally unnecessary.

 

He was sitting when he got tased.  I didn't see the need to tase him at that time.  From what I could see, he was being compliant and cooperative.

 

But after that, I think he got a little out of hand and should have definitely been arrested.

Are you watching the same video? He sat after they wrestled and he fell to the ground. Then the officer said get on your stomach like 5 times. This was so he could cuff him. He would not comply and this was already after he was already violent in the aisle. He prob could have just kept taser on him until other officer arrived, but either way there was going to be another struggle to get this big boy in a squad car.

This vid also stands for a good example of why cops don't use the taser against violent criminals(especially giants like this dude), as it had practically no effect. If he had a knife or any object to attack officer with the officer would have been dead.

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10 hours ago, Gugny said:

 

I am not wrong.  You are wrong.  And you are biased.  Don't tell me I don't have factual knowledge, as I can read and I can watch the news.  This is not what I believe.  It is fact.  Bad white cops are mowing down unarmed black men.  Are the black men criminals?  Usually, yes.  But they are unarmed.

 

The problem is that any Joe can become a cop.  Why?  Because they're paid VERY POORLY to start.  Pathetic training.  Pathetic background checking.  And they put people out there with guns and authority.  Dangerous.  And this is the result.  People unnecessarily getting shot and killed.

 

Tell me I'm wrong all you want.  I know better.  And keep denying the "blue wall," which has existed since before either one of us was born.

 

Juries decide the verdicts.  That's cute.

 

You're smarter than this.  Your code just won't let you show it.

 

 

 

Take it from me here, man.  Your take is bad. 

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1 hour ago, aristocrat said:

 

I don’t think you have the slightest idea of the training cops go through. That might be an all time terrible take.  

 

You mention the cops in the media daily for racist attacks. When you boil them down most are not racist after there is context explained.   What you don’t see is the daily attacks on officers cause it doesn’t make good news.  Those by far outnumber the bad cop videos and it’s not even close. 1000 to 1 or more 

I am going to say that not everyone can be a GOOD cop

 

a tremendous amount of patience

the ability to think quickly

the ability to make those quick decisions under pressure

and last but not least they run towards the danger and not away from it not everyone is built that way

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Here’s the whole video, in car and surveillance video. I don’t know if it’s been linked up thread or not. I don’t remember seeing it. 

 

Non-compliant, intoxicated, combative from the jump. Grabs taser, grabs at female cops gun. 

 

I see a professional cop. A good cop. Protecting his community from an out of control drunk man with a 5000lb missile. 

 

 

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11 minutes ago, Sig1Hunter said:

Here’s the whole video, in car and surveillance video. I don’t know if it’s been linked up thread or not. I don’t remember seeing it. 

 

Non-compliant, intoxicated, combative from the jump. Grabs taser, grabs at female cops gun. 

 

I see a professional cop. A good cop. Protecting his community from an out of control drunk man with a 5000lb missile. 

 

 

 

And I agree.

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12 minutes ago, Sig1Hunter said:

Here’s the whole video, in car and surveillance video. I don’t know if it’s been linked up thread or not. I don’t remember seeing it. 

 

Non-compliant, intoxicated, combative from the jump. Grabs taser, grabs at female cops gun. 

 

I see a professional cop. A good cop. Protecting his community from an out of control drunk man with a 5000lb missile. 

 

 

Just as I thought, even after being tased and cuffed still took 5 cops to get him in car. And love his "I'm getting rich off this *****" comment. That's the mentality that really hurts the whole system. Guys really getting mistreated and beat down out there, and this idiot is going to claim he was one of them. Unfortunate.

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Posted (edited)
On 7/9/2019 at 10:10 AM, RoyBatty is alive said:

Whatever faint hope he had on the NFL is now gone.

 

Not if he's talented enough to fill a need somewhere. I love this sport, but it's proven time and again that you can kill a dog by shoving its head  in a bucket of water,  or kick a woman. and still make millions...as long as you have talent.

 

Edited by IDBillzFan
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1 hour ago, BarkleyForGOATBackupPT5P said:

Should we kick the tires? I mean the cop can't arrest a guy for getting out of his car. Regardless, talent trumps character...sign him

Let’s take a look:

malik-mcdowell-mugshot.jpg?resize=809,65

 

Sorry, but NO.

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9 hours ago, Wsam4031 said:

See thinking like this is the problem. The fact u defend this guy with his entitled attitude instead of the guy putting his life on the line is a joke. The mentality of cops have changed because the mentality and actions of criminals have changed. More cops are dying in the field now more than ever. That coincides with more civilians being killed now more than ever. It is wise to follow orders when dealing with a cop. When you don't things escalate and people get shot, cops and civilians. Follow orders and you wont get shot its simple! I understand their are one offs for everything but you have people these days feel the need to argue with police about everything. This dude spun out at a gas station while drunk and the cop told him to sit in the car. Stay in the friggen car and none of this happens. Instead he goes in the gas station acts like a tough guy wrestles with the cop  and takes his taser. The cop is out matched and cant possible wrestle with this guy, so yea I guess its a good thing I'm not a cop because I would've wanted to get home to see my kids and shot him. We all know how it worked out now but at that time the cop had no clue what this guy was gonna do. Once he took that taser he essentially armed himself and its not completely crazy to think that hed want to hurt you. My rant is over now. there are just gonna always be people that condemn all actions by police even if they are justified 

I never defended him. what I did say was "good thing you're not a cop" simply because he's not dead. he lives another day, lucky, but still lives. I also stated that it would be wise to follow orders, another good way to live to see another day.

 

 

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On 7/9/2019 at 12:00 PM, BringBackFergy said:

Taking bets on the following posts:

 

$1 for "Should we kick the tires?" by post #12

$2 for "The cop can't arrest a guy for getting out of his car" by post #18

$5 for "Talent trumps character...sign him" by post #27

^

3 hours ago, Rico said:

Let’s take a look:

malik-mcdowell-mugshot.jpg?resize=809,65

 

Sorry, but NO.

It's not really that funny. I know. Thought it would be a hit.

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On 7/10/2019 at 11:41 PM, Gugny said:

 

 

Police brutality, primarily white cops vs. "people of color," is in the news almost daily.  I'd quantify that as "a lot."  One is too many.  Daily occurrences?  That's a major problem.

 

Sham trials?  Common man.  Tell that to the families of deceased people who died at that hands of police officers who had no business drawing their guns.

 

Like I said ... it's my opinion that it's the minority of policemen who are bad.  But even 1% means a lot of people are unnecessarily dying and their killers are being protected and not convicted.  Your cited, "well-founded legal conclusions," are put into place to protect police officers - or worded in a way in which their lawyers can twist it into an acquittal.

 

Shooting an unarmed man isn't something that can be justified.  If a cop can't apprehend someone who's unarmed without shooting them, then the cop isn't fit to be a cop.

 

And I have no problem with the officer in this original video.  In fact, I commended him for NOT drawing his gun.  He's one of the responsible ones.  One of the many.

 

But there are too many who are not and we see it in the news every day.  If you want to twist and turn every one of those incidents into the black guy somehow "deserving" it, that's on you.

 

I'm better.

 

When you decide to put you life at risk everyday dealing with dangerous criminals then you can talk but until then don't judge others. Police officers are just trying to make it home to their families every night.  Sure a criminal might lose their lives but they made their own choices to commit a crime and then disobey law enforcement. A person that gets shot has every opportunity to do what's right and not get shot. They may not deserve it based on the crime but it's really their own stupidity. Just corporate and everything will be fine... It's not a hard concept.  But once they make their choices then the police officer has every right to protect himself and remain safe with whatever he seems necessary. He is putting is life on the line to make sure the public is safe... It's easy to criticize when it's not your life that is at stake every single day.

 

Even if the person is unarmed it's impossible for a police officer to know that. And its better to not wait to find out. You say that seeing a person die due to a cop  in the news everyday is to much but you see if you didn't see those headlines then the headlines could very well read Police Officer won't Make It Back To Family for Christmas. 

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Posted (edited)
20 hours ago, Sig1Hunter said:

Here’s the whole video, in car and surveillance video. I don’t know if it’s been linked up thread or not. I don’t remember seeing it. 

 

Non-compliant, intoxicated, combative from the jump. Grabs taser, grabs at female cops gun. 

 

I see a professional cop. A good cop. Protecting his community from an out of control drunk man with a 5000lb missile. 

 

19 hours ago, Gugny said:

 

And I agree.

 

I respect your opinions and discussion you two have been having.

 

I just wanted to add a couple of thoughts:

 

The issue of compliance and control:

 

The number one issue in law enforcement shootings is non-compliance. First, It is critically important in any face-to-face encounter, for any individual to follow the commands of the officer, whether it is an arrest situation or not. It is for the safety of BOTH. When an individual does not comply, he or she is placing the law enforcement officer in a situation of having to make split second interpretations of movements

 

Second, during arrest situations, it is even more critical for a suspect to be compliant in order for the law enforcement officer to gain control of the suspect. Control means handcuffed. A suspect is not under control even when he or she is standing or sitting calmly. Any arrest situation has the potential to turn violent in an instant. Most officer deaths in these situations is from NOT following through in handcuffing the individual and mistaking "calmness" for "not posing a threat."

 

The issue of police shootings:

 

There are, literally, hundreds of thousands of interactions between law enforcement officers and civilians every day. Think about that. Between traffic situations, Investigations, respose calls, etc., etc., etc., there are between 50 - 65 million, face-to-face, interactions per year, and approx 7 million face-to face interactions between law enforcement officers and African Americans [Police-Public Contact Survey (PPCS) - Bureau of Justice Statistics (BJS)].

 

In every law enforcement jurisdiction in this country, the vast majority of resources are devoted to those areas with the highest crime (particularly violent crime) rates. There are tens of thousands of interactions every day and night in those areas in which the potential for escalation is very real - and they disproportionately involve minorities. That  is because those same areas, typically, happen to have higher minority populations as well, which, is more of an indictment on social and economic policies in this country than on the police. 

 

There are over 10 million arrests every year (FBI Unified Crime Report). That is over 10 million instances of a law enforcement officer taking someone into custody, an event that, by its very nature, has the potential to become emotionally charged.

 

There are about 1000 people killed by law enforcement officers every year: 45 percent white men (about .000003 of all interactions); 23 percent black men (about .000007 of all interactions), 16 percent Hispanic men (about .000007 of all interactions), and 5 percent women - and about 25 percent of those killed are people in mental distress.

 

About 4 percent (about 40) of all people killed per year are unarmed and about 40 percent (about 16) are African American.

 

Every reputable analysis conducted show the overwhelming majority of police shootings are justified,even in the unarmed situations. Some of them are not. When they are not, then those individual officers need to be held accountable. 

 

There are almost a million sworn law enforcement officers in this country and, as a whole, they are better trained, more highly educated, with a more thorough hiring process than ever before. 

 

Despite the rigorous hiring methods, there are going to be some bad people - just as there are in every other profession and every population. 

 

And, despite the level of training, they are still human beings who are tasked with sometimes making instantaneous decisions in unpredictable circumstances.

 

I understand the perceptions in this age of 24 hour a day, politically charged, news cycles; however, to say that law enforcement officers are "trigger happy," "mowing down young black men," "institutionally racist," etc., etc., is statistically nonsensical.

 

Is one unjustified killing too many? Of course. However, in reality, it is going to happen. That is just the result of the sheer number of interactions and the unpredictable nature of human behavior in emotionally charged situations.  

 

In each instance in which an unjustified killing occurs, the officer(s) should be held accountable. 

 

What should not happen is indicting an entire profession on the actions/events that are both rare and conducted by a miniscule percent of law enforcement officers.

Edited by billsfan1959
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Posted (edited)

^ Perfectly said. Perspective is a good thing, and the media is horrible at providing it. 

 

Below is a summary of Heather MacDonalds research on the topic. Her book “The War on Cops” goes much more in depth on it and her hypothesis that she’s titled “The Ferguson Effect”. The interesting takeaway from the short clip is the statistics she quotes. 

 

 

Edited by Sig1Hunter
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