loyal2dagame Posted June 30, 2019 Share Posted June 30, 2019 https://www.espn.com/fantasy/football/story/_/id/27054210/100-facts-2019-fantasy-football-season Finally someone admits all the talk about players is made up and for show. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shaw66 Posted June 30, 2019 Share Posted June 30, 2019 49 minutes ago, loyal2dagame said: https://www.espn.com/fantasy/football/story/_/id/27054210/100-facts-2019-fantasy-football-season Finally someone admits all the talk about players is made up and for show. It's also about all the data posters use to back up their opinions here. Some of our opinions are correct, some aren't, but the data doesn't prove the case one way or the other. We tend to remember and repeat the data that supports our opinions. Like, I think Andy Reid is a great football coach, and this article cites a bunch of facts that would support that. I'll remember those facts. Do they prove that Reid is a great coach? NO! There's a different set of facts that supports the notion that he isn't a good coach at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
row_33 Posted June 30, 2019 Share Posted June 30, 2019 33 minutes ago, Shaw66 said: It's also about all the data posters use to back up their opinions here. Some of our opinions are correct, some aren't, but the data doesn't prove the case one way or the other. We tend to remember and repeat the data that supports our opinions. Like, I think Andy Reid is a great football coach, and this article cites a bunch of facts that would support that. I'll remember those facts. Do they prove that Reid is a great coach? NO! There's a different set of facts that supports the notion that he isn't a good coach at all. Like Reid’s teams fall apart in every clutch moment? 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldTimeAFLGuy Posted June 30, 2019 Share Posted June 30, 2019 4 minutes ago, row_33 said: Like Reid’s teams fall apart in every clutch moment? ...Andy is so damn unpredictable.......wish I could remember that exact recent game (damn senior moment AGAIN).......KC owned the 1st half with Alex just in tremendous rhythm and marching......Smith was pure precision....and then Andy comes out in the 2nd with a Dopey Dickie Jauron turtle offense and they got smoked.....more Andy versus the team falling apart IMO... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nextmanup Posted June 30, 2019 Share Posted June 30, 2019 It should be pointed out that the idea is to follow the data to the conclusion, not draw a conclusion first and then hand-pick data to support that conclusion. The author is simply pointing out that the latter approach can be done. But we already knew that. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TigerJ Posted June 30, 2019 Share Posted June 30, 2019 It's nice to hear an actual explanation for all the garbage we hear every year. On the other hand it is an admission that it actually is garbage. That can be kind of discouraging. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HappyDays Posted June 30, 2019 Share Posted June 30, 2019 I don't agree that you can make stats say whatever you want. If you intentiontionally cherry pick, sure. But if you look at the stats as a whole they give a good picture of Allen in his rookie year. He struggled a lot, improved as the year went on, and showed seriously high potential. If he can realize that potential he'll be a star. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RiotAct Posted June 30, 2019 Share Posted June 30, 2019 the data is fine... unless it portrays our players negatively. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rico Posted June 30, 2019 Share Posted June 30, 2019 This article proves yet again that, when it comes to the NFL, stats are for losers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orlando Tim Posted June 30, 2019 Share Posted June 30, 2019 data in any situation is only as useful as the person interpreting it. i actually teach stats to high school kids and along with showing them how stats work i explain and show how stupid stats are without context. the biggest one in basketball is how the 6 rings of Jordan is so monumental, 10 players have 6 and Russell has 11. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nucci Posted June 30, 2019 Share Posted June 30, 2019 Most stats are useless except W-L record Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldmanfan Posted June 30, 2019 Share Posted June 30, 2019 This is why I am generally skeptical of the statistical analyses promoted by many. I have a research background and when planning studies you decide what question you want to ask, determine variables that can be controlled so you can measure between control and experimental groups, and define sample sizes and statistical methods that are appropriate for data analysis. What I tend to see with info such as referred to in the story is you can have an opinion, then choose statistics to buttress your opinion. The term used for the latter is confirmation bias and it's rampant in studies. When I review manuscripts for publication I reject 80-90% of them because of inappropriate study design and thus inaccurate conclusions. 3 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoHuddleKelly12 Posted June 30, 2019 Share Posted June 30, 2019 3 minutes ago, oldmanfan said: This is why I am generally skeptical of the statistical analyses promoted by many. I have a research background and when planning studies you decide what question you want to ask, determine variables that can be controlled so you can measure between control and experimental groups, and define sample sizes and statistical methods that are appropriate for data analysis. What I tend to see with info such as referred to in the story is you can have an opinion, then choose statistics to buttress your opinion. The term used for the latter is confirmation bias and it's rampant in studies. When I review manuscripts for publication I reject 80-90% of them because of inappropriate study design and thus inaccurate conclusions. Also rampant in the legal profession that I’m in; a lot of legal advocacy consists of cherry picking the most one-sided precedent you can find to present to the judge adjudicating whatever the matter happens to be. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rico Posted June 30, 2019 Share Posted June 30, 2019 I've read on this board that EJ had better stats his rookie year than Josh Allen. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WideNine Posted June 30, 2019 Share Posted June 30, 2019 31 minutes ago, nucci said: Most stats are useless except W-L record That is what many here reference. You game plan for your opponent. If they struggle against the run you may run more and the passing stats will be anemic, if their safeties or corners suck you may want to take deeper shots. You game plan to win, not to flex stats in the off season. That is why unselfish teams with solid role players will almost always win the big games against teams that cater to stat-padding divas. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haslett_Stomp Posted June 30, 2019 Share Posted June 30, 2019 (edited) 3 hours ago, OldTimeAFLGuy said: ...Andy is so damn unpredictable.......wish I could remember that exact recent game (damn senior moment AGAIN).......KC owned the 1st half with Alex just in tremendous rhythm and marching......Smith was pure precision....and then Andy comes out in the 2nd with a Dopey Dickie Jauron turtle offense and they got smoked.....more Andy versus the team falling apart IMO... Against the Titans in the playoffs two years ago. Was watching the game with a die-hard Chiefs fan who was apoplectic because he knew it was going to happen. Edited June 30, 2019 by Haslett_Stomp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlimShady'sSpaceForce Posted June 30, 2019 Share Posted June 30, 2019 stats lie???? ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronin Posted June 30, 2019 Share Posted June 30, 2019 It is noteworthy that the article is about fantasy football. Allen's rushing alone renders him above-average in that regard on paper. Unfortunately being an NFL passer, which is what QBs get paid for, is altogether a different matter. I didn't see in the article where it mentioned anything favorable about his passing regimen. Just sayin'. Quote In both QB profiles above, I purposely left out that Josh Allen led the NFL in QB rushing touchdowns, was second in QB rushing yards, led his team in carries from Week 12 on, and was the No. 1 QB in fantasy for the season's final six weeks. I left this information out of the first one because I wanted to make him look as bad as possible. I left it out of the second one because his rushing was so absurd (eight rushing touchdowns in 12 games!) that I thought it'd give away which player I was talking about. So I hyped up his fantasy points (without telling you how he got them) and found two stats to try to sell John Brown and Cole Beasley. So, in essence he's essentially stating that Allen sucked as a passer, but in terms of fantasy he was excellent because of the highlighted parts above. Tough to argue, but unfortunately it's not fantasy football that we care about. Is that, the bolded part, what is going to lead him to the promised land of being a franchise QB? A lot of people have indicated that that's what's going to get him killed and shorten his career, however long it will be otherwise. I'm also not seeing any analysis as to why he ran so much. It wasn't always because he had no open receivers. Sometimes he just took off, he was quite often impatient in a pocket that he did have. Those are areas where he heavily needs to work on if in fact he's going to actually become a franchise QB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loyal2dagame Posted June 30, 2019 Author Share Posted June 30, 2019 What i found most interesting was the part about a director thinking Carson Palmer was going to be verbally trashed by the writer after an NFL vet praised him. The director cut, reshot, and the same NFL vet trashed him. Fickle world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leh-nerd skin-erd Posted July 1, 2019 Share Posted July 1, 2019 3 hours ago, Ronin said: It is noteworthy that the article is about fantasy football. Allen's rushing alone renders him above-average in that regard on paper. Unfortunately being an NFL passer, which is what QBs get paid for, is altogether a different matter. I didn't see in the article where it mentioned anything favorable about his passing regimen. Just sayin'. So, in essence he's essentially stating that Allen sucked as a passer, but in terms of fantasy he was excellent because of the highlighted parts above. Tough to argue, but unfortunately it's not fantasy football that we care about. Is that, the bolded part, what is going to lead him to the promised land of being a franchise QB? A lot of people have indicated that that's what's going to get him killed and shorten his career, however long it will be otherwise. I'm also not seeing any analysis as to why he ran so much. It wasn't always because he had no open receivers. Sometimes he just took off, he was quite often impatient in a pocket that he did have. Those are areas where he heavily needs to work on if in fact he's going to actually become a franchise QB. It wasn't not always because he had open receivers. It wasn't not always because he was impatient. Sometimes he ran because he could, and sometimes he was patient in the pocket. He does need to improve to be better though....and we can all agree he on that. It looks like the coaching staff was not happy with some of the other pieces around him and have made attempts to improve his opportunity to improve. What would make you happy to see out of JA in year two? Not ecstatic, btw, just cautiously optimistic that he has grown and has potential to step forward yet again in year 3? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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