Pass rushers primed to breakout

[C.Biscuit97]

24 minutes ago, thebandit27 said:

 

I have a problem with "scouts" using Donald's NFL profile to compare him to Oliver's college profile.  It's revisionist.  Online scouts said the same exact things about Donald back in 2014:

 

https://www.sbnation.com/nfl-mock-draft/2014/3/15/5473430/aaron-donald-scouting-report

 

"Donald will never be mistaken for a two-gap run stuffer. He struggles to hold his ground against multiple blockers and will get overpowered. But at the same time, teams shouldn't expect him to be that type of defensive tackle. "

 

"Because he's not a classic 315-pound monster, Donald doesn't have the power of some defensive tackles. While he doesn't get pushed around, he doesn't necessarily win because of his strength. "

 

http://www.nfl.com/combine/profiles/aaron-donald?id=2543485

 

WEAKNESSES

 Marginal height and frame is nearly maxed out. Hands are more active than strong -- could play with more pop and power. Overpowered in the run game and ground up by double teams. Gets snared and controlled by bigger, longer blockers. Not a two-gap player. Has some tweener traits -- lacks ideal length and bend to play outside.

DRAFT PROJECTION

 Rounds 4-5

BOTTOM LINE

 Short, scrappy, instinctive, highly productive defensive lineman who does not look the part, but inspires confidence he can be an exception to the rule. Is the type you root for and has the quickness, athleticism and motor to earn a spot as a rotational three-technique in a fast-flowing 4-3 scheme.

 

Now, make no mistake, I disagreed with the above at the time, and I repeatedly said that if neither Watkins nor Evans fell to Buffalo's spot at 9, they should take Donald, because he's the best defensive player in the draft.  But for Walter (or anyone else) to say that Donald didn't have the same reservations to his name is simply revisionist.

As laughable as that report looks, it’s one idiot’s opinion.  It was the idiot who murdered Cam Newton’s smile.  I think he is basically out of the “scouting” business.  

 

I remember every mock I saw had Donald as a first rounder (though no one could have ever imagined he would be this good).  http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap2000000345921/article/mock-draft-60-fourround-2014-nfl-draft-projection?akmobile=ios&akcarrier=other

[Florida Bills Fanatic]

11 hours ago, Ronin said:

 

I think he's going to have to avoid double-teams if he's going to do that.  Not sure I see that happening.  

 

From Ed Oliver's Draft profiles: 

 

nfl.com:  

• Gets mauled by down blocks and double teams

Walter Football:  Double teams also can give him problems. 

 

"He is not the same guy as Donald," said one source. "He is more comparable to a Dominique Easley. [Oliver is] disruptive, twitchy, and can do a lot of positive things, so that is why people are eager to compare him to Donald because they both have surprising speed. But Oliver is not Donald. Donald is extremely strong, and you could see that at the Senior Bowl when he was tossing guys around. Oliver has issues with mass and problems with double teams that Donald does not. [Oliver's] lateral anchor is a problem." 

 

The 3-technique will help him in that way but he's undersized, which I'm not sure needs to be reiterated, for a 3-T.  

 

I have greater hopes for him at DE, I'd really like to see what he can do out there with his speed.  I have a hunch that's where he'll end up.  I'm not bullish on him at 3T.  I think he'll be OK there but nowhere near his expectations.  I don't know if he has enough speed to play DE but I'm simply not seeing greatness at 3T/DT for him.  

 

That Dominique Easley comparison seems valid to me.  

 

 

 

 

That's what everyone said that they brought Lotulolei in for.  Either that hasn't worked, which is MO, or it has and Hughes, Murphy, and Lawson simply haven't been able to take advantage.  

Lotulolei hasn't been a pass rusher throughout his career.  His game is to tie up two blockers on running plays and create space for the linebackers to make plays.  He is difficult to move off a spot.  He isn't and hasn't been a guy that has commanded a double team in the passing game.  He isn't a guy that can generate quick penetration into the pocket and disrupt the timing of a play. Quite often, he comes off the field on obvious passing downs.  I'm expecting that Oliver is that quick penetrating DT that is impossible to handle with a one on one block.  I believe his style of play will be similar to Gerald McCoy or John Randle.  Time will tell whether Oliver can do that.  If he can't, it will likely have been a bad selection at pick number 9.  I believe that he will deliver the results that the Bills want and turn out to be a great draft pick.  If Hughes, Murphy, and Lawson can't take advantage of their opportunities, the Bills should move on from them.

[Ronin]

3 minutes ago, thebandit27 said:

Nice to know that you once again refuse to acknowledge what anyone is actually saying and just trundle onward with your rant.

 

I'm only slightly amazed that you somehow got the literal opposite of the point that I was making from my post.

 

But I suppose that when the only tool you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail.

 

I know exactly what you're saying.  It's not difficult to grasp, there's no depth there.  

 

But once again, projecting an exception to make a point about another player is entirely remiss.  Unfortunately this place is laden with such stuff.  That's why all the false narratives form and why unrealistic expectations are put in place.  

 

I don't care what they said about Donald.  It's irrelevant, completely.  MY posts were reacting to what people here say about Oliver in relation to Donald.  What was in his draft profile is entirely irrelevant to any points that I've attempted to convey.  So the one missing the boat entirely is you.  Sorry.  

 

Your post only makes sense if your meaning is that they're reviews are going to be off on Oliver too.  Could very well be the case, hell, they're not any more accurate than the non-expert draft profilers, they all typically pull their info and opinions from the same relatively small collection of data and video, so why on earth would any of their conclusions be a whole lot different than each other's?   I'm one of the few people out there that will conduct my own analysis and challenge the establishment as such.  Unfortunately for them my track record is a whole lot better than theirs whether you or anyone here cares to admit it or not.  Then again, and just oddly, perhaps a huge part of the reason for that is because I'll spend 20 or 30 hours reviewing our top draft picks.  I'm the one that sees, Oliver for example since we're talking about him, getting stood up routinely in a game against a Sr. OL-man that wasn't drafted or even picked up as an UFA.  I'm the one that points out that almost all (never say never) of the OL-man that Oliver's beaten arent' any better.  

 

So, and call me nuts, for me to believe that he'll do the same thing in the NFL is a bit much.  Again, has absolutely nothing to do with Donald.  I'm not the one making comparisons to Donald re: Oliver.  The opposite in fact.  

 

And fine, don't like Walter, use nfl.com.  I'm not a big fan of the analytical methods of ANY draft gurus, Kiper, Mayock, any of them.  Few if any really spend the time required to get a tremendously in-depth analysis.  I've fully explained why on time-constraints to do so alone.  I guarantee you that I've spent more time than any of them on Oliver and Allen.  

 

But numerous draft profiles, for example, state that Oliver struggles against double teams, which is clearly what my review of his videos shows as well, yet, many people here have run on with some ill-founded narrative that he tears up not only double-teams but triple-teams.  

 

I don't ever compare a rookie to another player other than for perhaps illustrating what my expectations might be, as a mere example,  IMO that's the easiest way to get off the rails in any draftee review, to compare them to other NFL players.  And when I do it it's typically for the benefit of someone I'm talking with on that player.  

 

None of what I've just said should be difficult for anyone to get their mental arms around.  May not agree, but  it's simple to understand.  

[K-9]

11 hours ago, Ronin said:

 

That's all but ridiculous.  That U9 is a gimme.  

 

28 total players had 9+ sacks last season, only 7 were DTs.  

 

Donald led the league, DeForest Buckner, Jarran Reed, Fletcher Cox, and Geno Atkins were next in the progression and they're all entirely different types of players. Denico Autry is the only one that's in Oliver's prototye, and interestingly, he played DE too.  I have no idea how many of his 9 sacks were from the DE position.  That was also an odd positive year for him as he nearly matched his sack total from his other four years combined.  

 

I think we'll end up seeing Oliver playing some DE as well.  

 

 

 

Fully agree.  Donald had 9 in his rookie season.  Oliver's not Donald nor is he going to be.  

Why not?

[BADOLBILZ]

21 minutes ago, thebandit27 said:

 

I have a problem with "scouts" using Donald's NFL profile to compare him to Oliver's college profile.  It's revisionist.  Online scouts said the same exact things about Donald back in 2014:

 

https://www.sbnation.com/nfl-mock-draft/2014/3/15/5473430/aaron-donald-scouting-report

 

"Donald will never be mistaken for a two-gap run stuffer. He struggles to hold his ground against multiple blockers and will get overpowered. But at the same time, teams shouldn't expect him to be that type of defensive tackle. "

 

"Because he's not a classic 315-pound monster, Donald doesn't have the power of some defensive tackles. While he doesn't get pushed around, he doesn't necessarily win because of his strength. "

 

http://www.nfl.com/combine/profiles/aaron-donald?id=2543485

 

WEAKNESSES

 Marginal height and frame is nearly maxed out. Hands are more active than strong -- could play with more pop and power. Overpowered in the run game and ground up by double teams. Gets snared and controlled by bigger, longer blockers. Not a two-gap player. Has some tweener traits -- lacks ideal length and bend to play outside.

DRAFT PROJECTION

 Rounds 4-5

BOTTOM LINE

 Short, scrappy, instinctive, highly productive defensive lineman who does not look the part, but inspires confidence he can be an exception to the rule. Is the type you root for and has the quickness, athleticism and motor to earn a spot as a rotational three-technique in a fast-flowing 4-3 scheme.

 

Now, make no mistake, I disagreed with the above at the time, and I repeatedly said that if neither Watkins nor Evans fell to Buffalo's spot at 9, they should take Donald, because he's the best defensive player in the draft.  But for Walter (or anyone else) to say that Donald didn't have the same reservations to his name is simply revisionist.

 

 

 

I think most people thought of Aaron Donald a lot like Tre White............yeah he's probably going to be productive in the NFL but the ceiling is limited by the lack of one trait...........ignoring the fact that other aspects of their game are elite and that those traits will make them standouts.

 

Clearly those of us who thought Donald was easily the top defender in the draft were right and I would still take White over Lattimore though Lattimore has been everything the Saints could possibly have hoped for.

 

[C.Biscuit97]

Just now, K-9 said:

Why not?

I mean I guess it’s the same as people comparing Josh Allen to John Elway.  I mean there’s a chance but to compare a guy to an all time great seems a little crazy.  But Oliver can be a very good player.  But Donald might be the best pass rushing DT of my lifetime.  If Oliver is 70% as good as Donald, I’d be happy.

[thebandit27]

2 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

As laughable as that report looks, it’s one idiot’s opinion.  It was the idiot who murdered Cam Newton’s smile.  I think he is basically out of the “scouting” business.  

 

I remember every mock I saw had Donald as a first rounder (though no one could have ever imagined he would be this good).  http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap2000000345921/article/mock-draft-60-fourround-2014-nfl-draft-projection?akmobile=ios&akcarrier=other

 

Oh definitely.  I mean, I had him going 8 to Minnesota, and was all in favor of Buffalo taking him at 9.

 

As for one idiot's opinion, yeah, Nawrocki descended into buffoonery...but the point is that there was plenty of discussion regarding Donald's ability to hold up on the interior.

 

1 minute ago, Ronin said:

 

I know exactly what you're saying.  It's not difficult to grasp, there's no depth there.  

 

But once again, projecting an exception to make a point about another player is entirely remiss.  Unfortunately this place is laden with such stuff.  That's why all the false narratives form and why unrealistic expectations are put in place.  

 

I don't care what they said about Donald.  It's irrelevant, completely.  MY posts were reacting to what people here say about Oliver in relation to Donald.  What was in his draft profile is entirely irrelevant to any points that I've attempted to convey.  So the one missing the boat entirely is you.  Sorry.  

 

Your post only makes sense if your meaning is that they're reviews are going to be off on Oliver too.  Could very well be the case, hell, they're not any more accurate than the non-expert draft profilers, they all typically pull their info and opinions from the same relatively small collection of data and video, so why on earth would any of their conclusions be a whole lot different than each other's?   I'm one of the few people out there that will conduct my own analysis and challenge the establishment as such.  Unfortunately for them my track record is a whole lot better than theirs whether you or anyone here cares to admit it or not.  Then again, and just oddly, perhaps a huge part of the reason for that is because I'll spend 20 or 30 hours reviewing our top draft picks.  I'm the one that sees, Oliver for example since we're talking about him, getting stood up routinely in a game against a Sr. OL-man that wasn't drafted or even picked up as an UFA.  I'm the one that points out that almost all (never say never) of the OL-man that Oliver's beaten arent' any better.  

 

So, and call me nuts, for me to believe that he'll do the same thing in the NFL is a bit much.  Again, has absolutely nothing to do with Donald.  I'm not the one making comparisons to Donald re: Oliver.  The opposite in fact.  

 

And fine, don't like Walter, use nfl.com.  I'm not a big fan of the analytical methods of ANY draft gurus, Kiper, Mayock, any of them.  Few if any really spend the time required to get a tremendously in-depth analysis.  I've fully explained why on time-constraints to do so alone.  I guarantee you that I've spent more time than any of them on Oliver and Allen.  

 

But numerous draft profiles, for example, state that Oliver struggles against double teams, which is clearly what my review of his videos shows as well, yet, many people here have run on with some ill-founded narrative that he tears up not only double-teams but triple-teams.  

 

I don't ever compare a rookie to another player other than for perhaps illustrating what my expectations might be, as a mere example,  IMO that's the easiest way to get off the rails in any draftee review, to compare them to other NFL players.  And when I do it it's typically for the benefit of someone I'm talking with on that player.  

 

None of what I've just said should be difficult for anyone to get their mental arms around.  May not agree, but  it's simple to understand.  

 

Nope, you clearly don't get the point.

 

You posted a link to someone saying "he's clearly not Aaron Donald" because he got beat up against double-teams etc.  My response to you was that I had a problem with anyone comparing Donald as an NFL player to Oliver as a college player.  That comparison is stupid, because we now have 5 seasons of NFL body-of-work on which to judge Donald.  If someone is going to make that comparison, they should be doing so based upon Donald's college tape, but that would've contradicted what the Walter scout was saying.

 

Instead of reading that, digesting it, and acknowledging it, you decided to obfuscate.  Why I'll never know.

[K-9]

1 minute ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

I mean I guess it’s the same as people comparing Josh Allen to John Elway.  I mean there’s a chance but to compare a guy to an all time great seems a little crazy.  But Oliver can be a very good player.  But Donald might be the best pass rushing DT of my lifetime.  If Oliver is 70% as good as Donald, I’d be happy.

That’s all well and good and congrats on getting in another Josh Allen mention, but I’m more interested in having my question answered. Why won’t Ed Oliver be Aaron Donald?

[C.Biscuit97]

3 minutes ago, K-9 said:

That’s all well and good and congrats on getting in another Josh Allen mention, but I’m more interested in having my question answered. Why won’t Ed Oliver be Aaron Donald?

Yeah dude.  Josh Allen is John Elway.  Ed Oliver is Aaron Donald. Foster is Antonio Brown. Knox is Travis Kelce.  McDermott is Belichick. Beane is Bill Polian. And I only date girls who look like Margot Robbie.  This year is going to be sick!

[Ronin]

19 minutes ago, Florida Bills Fanatic said:

Lotulolei hasn't been a pass rusher throughout his career.  His game is to tie up two blockers on running plays and create space for the linebackers to make plays.  

 

Again, yes, that's the narrative.  Must be why our LBs logged a whopping 10.5 sacks last season.  At some point the narrative needs to be reconciled with what the results are.  

 

 

[K-9]

6 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

Yeah dude.  Josh Allen is John Elway.  Ed Oliver is Aaron Donald. Foster is Antonio Brown. Knox is Travis Kelce.  McDermott is Belichick. Beane is Bill Polian. And I only date girls who look like Margot Robbie.  This year is going to be sick!

Why go off like that? My question about Oliver is legit. What, to this point indicates he won’t/can’t be another Donald. 

 

Regarding Allen and Elway; Allen had a far, far better rookie year compared to Elway, so I’m enthused. 

[Ronin]

22 minutes ago, Florida Bills Fanatic said:

I'm expecting that Oliver is that quick penetrating DT that is impossible to handle with a one on one block.  I believe his style of play will be similar to Gerald McCoy or John Randle.  Time will tell whether Oliver can do that.  If he can't, it will likely have been a bad selection at pick number 9.  I believe that he will deliver the results that the Bills want and turn out to be a great draft pick.  If Hughes, Murphy, and Lawson can't take advantage of their opportunities, the Bills should move on from them.

 

Again, that's the narrative, that's what everyone is saying.  There's a reason for that, theyr'e all drawing their info from the same source.  

 

Did those sources watch all the times that Oliver was stood up agianst Sr. OL-man Paul Stawarz like I did?  I don't think they did.  He didn't even get drafted or even picked up as an UFA, at least not that I see.  That's relevant independent research. 

 

What you say about double-teams and Oliver many people here have disagreed with in their posts.  Where are they getting theiir info.  (rhetorical)  

 

Talk, particularly sports talk, is tremendously cheap, and for those that do it for a living, they can be 90% wrong and have jobs for years.  

[Ronin]

22 minutes ago, thebandit27 said:

Oh definitely.  I mean, I had him going 8 to Minnesota, and was all in favor of Buffalo taking him at 9.

 

As for one idiot's opinion, yeah, Nawrocki descended into buffoonery...but the point is that there was plenty of discussion regarding Donald's ability to hold up on the interior.

 

See, here's the difference between me and you and everyone else.  I dont' care about where players are ranked.  

 

I understand the inevitability that there are going to be a whole bunch of busts.  It's expected for those that don't want to bury their heads in the sand.  

 

I wouldn't have drafted Oliver anywhere where he'd have been available.  If  by some outside stroke her were still there in the 2nd I'd have thought about it then.  Remember when they said that Ragland was really a 1st-round LB?  There have been other players as well.  

 

I don't pay any attention to any of that.  My take on Zay Jones was that he was a mid-round risk-worthy pick at best, but it was likely that he too would be gone by then, so as a team I wouldn't even bother thinking about him.  

 

I pay very little attention to convention when it comes to the Draft.  

[C.Biscuit97]

5 minutes ago, K-9 said:

Why go off like that? My question about Oliver is legit. What, to this point indicates he won’t/can’t be another Donald. 

 

Regarding Allen and Elway; Allen had a far, far better rookie year compared to Elway, so I’m enthused. 

I love Oliver.  And it’s good to be enthusiastic.  But I’ll learn that it helps to have reasonable expectations.  Donald might be the greatest  pass rushing DT when it’s all done.  People are trying to say Allen will win the MVP.  It’s just setting yourself up for disappointment.  Oliver could have a Dareus type rookie year and that would be awesome. 

 

And I think you’re a smart poster even when we disagree.  But you really think comparing qb stats from 35 years ago to current day is fair?

[ROCBillsBeliever]

16 hours ago, CommonCents said:

Did Canada legalize cocaine?

 

Inconclusive, but the ex-mayor of Toronto was a known white-noser ???

[thebandit27]

3 minutes ago, Ronin said:

 

See, here's the difference between me and you and everyone else.  I dont' care about where players are ranked.  

 

I pay very little attention to convention when it comes to the Draft.  

 

You have no clue.

 

If you bothered to spend a quarter of a second looking into it, you'd see that implying that I'm relying on anyone else's evaluation outs you as ignorant.  I've spent years on this board writing up profiles on players and doing hundreds of draft work-ups every year.

 

You want me to polish your apples because you had Zay Jones as a mid-round pick?  Be proud of that, that's really incredible work.  Ground-breaking stuff.

 

 

It would do you some good in terms of credibility to pay attention to who you accuse of regurgitating rankings.  If you don't know, ask a friend.

 

[K-9]

3 minutes ago, Ronin said:

 

Again, that's the narrative, that's what everyone is saying.  There's a reason for that, theyr'e all drawing their info from the same source.  

 

Did those sources watch all the times that Oliver was stood up agianst Sr. OL-man Paul Stawarz like I did?  I don't think they did.  He didn't even get drafted or even picked up as an UFA, at least not that I see.  That's relevant independent research. 

 

What you say about double-teams and Oliver many people here have disagreed with in their posts.  Where are they getting theiir info.  (rhetorical)  

 

Talk, particularly sports talk, is tremendously cheap, and for those that do it for a living, they can be 90% wrong and have jobs for years.  

It’s possible that the countless man hours spent pouring over Oliver’s game tapes by scouts and other personnel evaluators may have missed that, but I doubt it. It’s a shame you weren’t able to offer your “relevant independent research” to every NFL team to alert them.

 

Regarding your review of his play vs. Paul Stawarz, I didn’t catch it initially so I’m hoping you can provide some context. What was the game situation, what were the alignments on both sides of the ball, and what were Oliver’s reads and responsibilities relative to his teammates? Also, were there any mitigating circumstances to consider for that game and on those particular plays? I guarantee that if Stawarz’s performance raised concerns, those questions were asked of both Oliver and his coaches. 

[Ronin]

27 minutes ago, thebandit27 said:

Nope, you clearly don't get the point.

 

You posted a link to someone saying "he's clearly not Aaron Donald" because he got beat up against double-teams etc.  My response to you was that I had a problem with anyone comparing Donald as an NFL player to Oliver as a college player.  That comparison is stupid, because we now have 5 seasons of NFL body-of-work on which to judge Donald.  If someone is going to make that comparison, they should be doing so based upon Donald's college tape, but that would've contradicted what the Walter scout was saying.

 

Instead of reading that, digesting it, and acknowledging it, you decided to obfuscate.  Why I'll never know.

 

Yeah, I do.  You missed the point of whatever it is that I posted.  Or perhaps I didn't clarify appropriately.  

 

Again, I'm not the one comparing Oliver to Donald, everyone here is.  Oliver can only be compared as a collegiate player, there's no body of work otherwise.  The references to Donald are to him as a pro.  The intention of these posters is clear, Donald too was a small-school DT for one.  That's irrelevant.  If it were relevant then the strategy to draft a QB would be to go for them in the 6th round because that's where the GOAT was drafted.  Horrible form.  

 

Again, I have a horrible timme with anyone comparing Donald as an NFL player to Oliver also.  

 

That's my entire point.  My comments were to those comparing Oliver, as a college player since that's all we have, to Donald, as a pro for x-number of seasons.  

 

We're fully in agreement, but I'm not the one comparing the two.  In fact, as you admit, I said that Oliver wasn't Donald.  I suppose that's an indirect comparison but as such not what we're talking about here. 

 

BTW, it's also remiss to take players that were exceptions to expectations, and use those exceptions to project their NFL capability when there are far more examples of the contrary.  In this particular case any comparisons should end immediately given that Donald played at Pitt, a power-5 school, against individual opponents many of which were drafted and are still in the NFL.  

 

And hey, Oliver may be as good as Donald, Sapp, or any other DT that ever played in the NFL.  I'm simply giving you my assessment.  It's clear that few put any credence in it.  I did the same for Spiller, Watkins, McCargo (since we're talking DTs), and more recently Zay Jones, everyone's take on my takes was pretty much exactly the same for them and more.  I'm fully good with it, truly.  

 

 

 

 

 

 

8 minutes ago, thebandit27 said:

You have no clue.

 

If you bothered to spend a quarter of a second looking into it, you'd see that implying that I'm relying on anyone else's evaluation outs you as ignorant.  I've spent years on this board writing up profiles on players and doing hundreds of draft work-ups every year.

 

You want me to polish your apples because you had Zay Jones as a mid-round pick?  Be proud of that, that's really incredible work.  Ground-breaking stuff.

 

It would do you some good in terms of credibility to pay attention to who you accuse of regurgitating rankings.  If you don't know, ask a friend.

 

OK, thanks.    

 

Point me to your write-up of Zay Jones.  

[thebandit27]

7 minutes ago, K-9 said:

It’s possible that the countless man hours spent pouring over Oliver’s game tapes by scouts and other personnel evaluators may have missed that, but I doubt it. It’s a shame you weren’t able to offer your “relevant independent research” to every NFL team to alert them.

 

Regarding your review of his play vs. Paul Stawarz, I didn’t catch it initially so I’m hoping you can provide some context. What was the game situation, what were the alignments on both sides of the ball, and what were Oliver’s reads and responsibilities relative to his teammates? Also, were there any mitigating circumstances to consider for that game and on those particular plays? I guarantee that if Stawarz’s performance raised concerns, those questions were asked of both Oliver and his coaches. 

 

You're talking about a game during which Texas Tech ran over 100 plays on offense, many of which were explicitly designed to take Oliver's pass rush out of the equation.  It didn't work well early, but around play 90 you could see that Oliver was gassed.

 

Playing nearly 600 snaps 0-tech at 285 lbs over the course of a season and getting doubled nearly 50% of the time, while playing alongside few other draftable defensive pieces, can do that to a guy.

6 minutes ago, Ronin said:

 

And hey, Oliver may be as good as Donald, Sapp, or any other DT that ever played in the NFL.  I'm simply giving you my assessment.  It's clear that few put any credence in it.  I did the same for Spiller, Watkins, McCargo (since we're talking DTs), and more recently Zay Jones, everyone's take on my takes was pretty much exactly the same for them and more.  I'm fully good with it, truly.  

 

 

I'm fine with the assessment.  What I find stupid is the following:

 

- Comparing Oliver's college evaluation to Donald as an NFL player, while ignoring what talent evaluators said about Donald in the leadup to the 2014 draft

- Straw-manning by saying that somehow everyone is claiming that Oliver = Donald

- Touting your own draft genius by claiming superior evaluations of 4 players over a 10 year period...if you have to tell people how smart you are, then that means that they can't see it for themselves. Notice that guys like Blokes and Gunner don't need to tell everyone how brilliant their draft evaluations are/were; if you've got the goods then people know it.

[Ronin]

21 minutes ago, thebandit27 said:

 

You're talking about a game during which Texas Tech ran over 100 plays on offense, many of which were explicitly designed to take Oliver's pass rush out of the equation.  It didn't work well early, but around play 90 you could see that Oliver was gassed.

 

Playing nearly 600 snaps 0-tech at 285 lbs over the course of a season and getting doubled nearly 50% of the time, while playing alongside few other draftable defensive pieces, can do that to a guy.

 

LOL 

 

So one-on-one was designed to take Oliver out of the pass-rush?  OK, well it worked.  I hope he performs better than that here.  

 

As one.  There are other games too but clearly you'll make excuses for them as well.

 

BTW, would also love to read your takes on Spiller and Watkins.  I know those were favorable because there was no one, and I mean absolutely NO ONE that agreed with my takes.  

 

So say what you want and choose, but works for me.    

 

Seems to me my accuracy with those however is pretty dam lucky given how stupid, ignorant, and uninformed I am.  Perhaps I'll change my avatar to "Ignoramus."  Seriously, I like that.  I'll have to wait, I just changed it, I thought I read that it'll be 6 months before I can change it again.  

 

 

 

Edited June 25, 2019 by Ronin