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Rigotz

2016 NFL Draft

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7 hours ago, PromoTheRobot said:

 

Isn't Ragland a pretty good LB for the Chiefs?

 

This makes me think about Sabres GM Tim Murray. We got rid of him because of deals involving Robyn Lenher, Evander Kane, Ryan O'Reilly, even JT Compher. So who was the problem, really?

 

No.

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2 hours ago, HOUSE said:

 

Don't bang the table it spills all the beer..

Bang the chick, not the table Khrushchev

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8 hours ago, BullBuchanan said:

 

Why do people here count players that are playing on other teams as misses? The Bills had A LOT of former players in the conference championships last season.

There's a big difference. The former players who were in the conference championships were guys who either played out their rookie contracts and left as free agents (some for big $) or were traded for something valuable (like Watkins for a 2nd & Gaines).  Meanwhile, all of the 2016 draft picks with the exception of Lawson were gone before opening day 1 season later with virtually nothing in return and most of the ones still in the league are being viewed as camp bodies with little chance of being on a 2019 NFL 53 man roster.  2016's draft had a lot of misses.  

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On 6/20/2019 at 3:16 PM, Seasons1992 said:

All regimes after John Butler were really terrible. 

 

 I believe Beane will eventually become the most significant GM since Butler.  Butler’s only downfall is he didn’t manage the cap well.  He did have a great eye for talent.  That late 90’s defense was probably the best I can remember.

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I look back at that draft class and see a bunch of big name players from big name, winning schools like Clemson, Alabama and Ohio State. I have to wonder if the problem stemmed from the draft itself or the feeble coaching that followed.

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I'm not a fan of Whaley for a lot of reasons, but the 2016 draft was 100% on Rex.  They had to waste picks on rebuilding the defense for him.

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On 6/21/2019 at 3:12 AM, BullBuchanan said:

 

Why do people here count players that are playing on other teams as misses? The Bills had A LOT of former players in the conference championships last season.

 

  That's terrible logic. I mean Vlad Ducasse played in the playoffs for the BIlls. He must be some player.

 

  I wonder if fans of those teams consider them vital components?

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This draft is depressing as even Shaq is on the bubble.  I know Polian would commonly say if you're hitting on 60% or better you're in the ballpark of a very good GM.  He said his lifetime as well as Ron Wolf, both in the HOF were at57-60%.  Gil Brandt going in this year said the same thing.  I have real hope though and confidence with this administration.  I don't blame the Pegulas for making the mistake on Ryan and Whaley as they were new owners, but in my opinion, they did it right on the second round.

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On 6/20/2019 at 2:34 PM, Rigotz said:

Out of curiosity, I was taking a look at previous Whaley regime drafts. What a mess.

 

2016:

1st Round: Shaq Lawson - declined 5th year option 

2nd Round: Reggie Ragland - traded for 4th round pick - no longer on team 

3rd Round: Adolphus Washington - practice squad player - no longer on team

4th Round: Cardale Jones - traded for 7th rounder - cut - no longer on team

5th Round: Jonathan Williams - practice squad player - no longer on team

6th Round: Kolby Listenbee - never played - no longer on team

6th Round - Kevon Seymour - traded for Kaelin Clay - both no longer on team

 

Everyone misses picks, but damn...

 

 

 

 

Jonathon Williams was not a practice squad player nor was Washington.  Williams had a very promising rookie season but could put down the doobie IIRC.  I really believe coaching has a lot to do with it.  The lone player left of this draft has come miles under the new coaching staff.

 

BTW Ragland is doing pretty good for KC.

Edited by formerlyofCtown

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8 hours ago, machine gun kelly said:

 

 I believe Beane will eventually become the most significant GM since Butler.  Butler’s only downfall is he didn’t manage the cap well.  He did have a great eye for talent.  That late 90’s defense was probably the best I can remember.

 

This is exactly true. We were in salary-cap hell back then, with stacked talent. 

And then it all fell apart for 15 years. The "Dark Ages."

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Whaley is the GM so he takes the blame (even though the Pegulas completely handcuffed him).  But compare that draft with his others.  Good players playing key roles all over the league.

 

Do you think Whaley wanted to destroy the number 3 defense in the nfl (one of the best in my history of being a Bills fan) for Rex’s system?  I put way more of that blame on Rex than Whaley.  I know a lot of people try to bash Whaley (who had the same record through 2 years as the new regime everyone loves) but imo, he was a good soldier and they killed him.  He should have gotten rid of Marrone when he decided to not play EJ (right or wrong you have to let your young qb play. I’m not the biggest Allen fan but I’d flip out if he got benched this year).  Then he should have been able to hire his own coach.  He was never given that chance, 

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6 minutes ago, Seasons1992 said:

 

This is exactly true. We were in salary-cap hell back then, with stacked talent. 

And then it all fell apart for 15 years. The "Dark Ages."

John Butler was loyal to his players. To a fault. Kept them well past when they could have/should have been moved and we paid the cap price for that. But man, that last draft of his didn’t do us much good. Still, as bad as it was for us, those players went on to avg. five years in the league. Heck, even Flowers managed five. 

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52 minutes ago, K-9 said:

John Butler was loyal to his players. To a fault. Kept them well past when they could have/should have been moved and we paid the cap price for that. But man, that last draft of his didn’t do us much good. Still, as bad as it was for us, those players went on to avg. five years in the league. Heck, even Flowers managed five. 

 

 

And you know what.............back then if you mentioned things like that here in 1998 it was akin too questioning McBeane now...........people didn't even believe a cap crisis would ever happen.   

 

I supported Butler and was a big "don't know what we have til' he's gone" guy about his personnel moves.............. but I knew then that they were going to have to handle the impending cap crisis efficiently to avoid losing the momentum they had built up.

 

Donahoe used the cap crisis as an excuse to tear it down and build the Bills in an entirely different image.............unnecessarily cutting Ted Washington and tearing out their identity(the stout 3-4 defense) was the biggest catalyst for the drought.    They expended massive assets trying to build a defense with expensive parts but never re-captured the heart that 1990's defense had in spades from years of holding leads late in games and getting the team into the playoffs year in and out.

 

We then had to watch Ted Washington stunningly spearhead a Bears defense to the best record in the NFC............and then play in January and win a SB with the Patriots over the next few seasons.

 

So when we watch regimes make decisions on players and then see them excel in January elsewhere there is relevance to Bills mistakes-past.

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I called for Whaley’s firing in the Shaq Lawson pick thread.  Should’ve been done right after that draft.

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19 hours ago, formerlyofCtown said:

Jonathon Williams was not a practice squad player nor was Washington.  Williams had a very promising rookie season but could put down the doobie IIRC.  I really believe coaching has a lot to do with it.  The lone player left of this draft has come miles under the new coaching staff.

 

BTW Ragland is doing pretty good for KC.

 

Wrong Williams. That was Karlos. This is Jonathan. This one had feet made of lead. The only cut he ever made was a paper cut. 

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36 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Wrong Williams. That was Karlos. This is Jonathan. This one had feet made of lead. The only cut he ever made was a paper cut. 

Not the wrong Williams. I misremembered him playing better than that.  

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The worse draft in my Bills fan lifetime was the 2000 draft but looking at this 2016 was closer to that than I realized.

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On 6/22/2019 at 3:07 PM, formerlyofCtown said:

BTW Ragland is doing pretty good for KC.

 

Not sure where this narrative came from but he sucks there just like he did here. If an LB is called a "thumper" he shouldn't be taken anywhere near the top 2 rounds.

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On 6/21/2019 at 8:40 AM, Albany,n.y. said:

There's a big difference. The former players who were in the conference championships were guys who either played out their rookie contracts and left as free agents (some for big $) or were traded for something valuable (like Watkins for a 2nd & Gaines).  Meanwhile, all of the 2016 draft picks with the exception of Lawson were gone before opening day 1 season later with virtually nothing in return and most of the ones still in the league are being viewed as camp bodies with little chance of being on a 2019 NFL 53 man roster.  2016's draft had a lot of misses.  

It's a fair point, but put it all into context: how many regimes for the Bills have lasted more than two years? 

Doug Marone: '13-14

Rex Ryan: '15-16

McD: '17- ??

A new coaching staff come in, and immediately cleans house. 

On 6/22/2019 at 6:57 AM, Seoulofstone said:

 

  That's terrible logic. I mean Vlad Ducasse played in the playoffs for the BIlls. He must be some player.

 

  I wonder if fans of those teams consider them vital components?

But, in the context of this thread, and with the history of the Bills hiring a new coaching staff every two-three years, it's not really accurate to slam the picks themselves simply because they are no longer with the Bills. If, after being let go by yet another new regime, they went on to have successful careers, you can't really say they were terrible players, or picks. Many just didn't fit the next regime to come in.

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