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Buffalo Bills have built a trio of athletic linebackers fit for modern football

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16 minutes ago, BobDVA said:

Already did, and I claim your claim unsubstantiated!

If you did you cant read. Lance Zierlein nfl.com

  • Instincts are average and relies on athletic gifts
  • Can be a step slow to diagnose
  • Lured by misdirection
  • Will take random downhill paths that trap him in the quagmire
  • Patience is lacking
  • Races ahead of plays and voids his leverage and run fits at times
  • Needs to add more upper and lower body strength
  • Average base strength and high center of gravity create issues holding up at the point of attack
  • Needs to be quicker to punch in order to maintain clearance
  • Mental busts in man coverage hurt his team
  • Takes time to process moving piece
18 minutes ago, BobDVA said:

Already did, and I claim your claim unsubstantiated!

Pro Football Weekly:

Instincts are still developing in coverage — prone to getting fooled by play action and misdirection (see first quarter of the Miami game) and will have trouble locating the ball at times. Sometimes gets lost in space. Plays too shallow sometimes and doesn’t cut off enough of the field.

20 minutes ago, BobDVA said:

Already did, and I claim your claim unsubstantiated!

Bleacher Report,  Matt Miller:

NEGATIVES

—Still learning the position and will take false steps that his athleticism covers up.

—Can be late to react and is more of a catcher than initiator as a tackler.

—Needs to continue getting stronger to take on NFL blockers.

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22 minutes ago, BobDVA said:

Already did, and I claim your claim unsubstantiated!

Draft Diamonds:

Negatives: 

Tremaine doesn’t have great instincts and I believe part of that is due to his young age. He can be a little slow in his decision making as well as be lured in by misdirection plays. Edmunds will have to try and strengthen his upper and lower body strength. (That will come in due time as he get’s older and his body fills out.) He will from time to time have a bust in man coverage from time to time, Which isn’t due to his lack of playing ability. It’s more due to his mental mistakes.

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16 hours ago, HT02 said:

What will be interesting to watch is that last year the Patriots played quite a few games (including both games against the Bills) where they clearly were committed to running the football.  Even playing old-fashioned power football and doing it successfully.  As Brady continues to age, and his replacement isn't obvious, I wonder if Belichick is going to be ahead of the curve again and take advantage of these smaller, faster more athletic linebackers by using power football to wear them down.  I stall have nightmares watching the gigantic offensive lines of the Giants, Redskins and Cowboys abuse Jeff Wright and the lighter, faster athletic defenses of the Bills.

 

Of course I could just be suffering from battered fan syndrome.

It's interesting, through this lens, to look at the types of linebackers New England has fielded in recent memory: my immediate thought is that Belichick has had continued success with bigger bodies at LB (multiple 250+ guys). Hightower and Van Noy last season, Collins (who was an athletic freak), Mayo, and Spikes before that...

 

All while the rest of the league gets lighter and faster and more pass-happy. 

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13 hours ago, LSHMEAB said:

Milano is the most proven by far. Edmunds represents tremendous upside, but he wasn't exactly "great" as a rookie. You know what you're getting with Milano and that's big plays and range. Only downside is he's not strong at the point of attack, but that's not what they ask of him.

 

 

what has Milano proven exactly? He has had less than a full year as a starter, has shown flashes of being productive...but he hasnt proven anything yet. All of our LB corp is unproven (lorax I guess has had a few good years of production but he isnt even being mentioned in here for obvious reasons). Edmunds is the captain and leader of the defense, everything runs through him. Milano being a year older than Edmunds is not even close to an argument that "Milano is the leader" of this unit lol

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21 hours ago, PaattMaann said:

 

what has Milano proven exactly? He has had less than a full year as a starter, has shown flashes of being productive...but he hasnt proven anything yet. All of our LB corp is unproven (lorax I guess has had a few good years of production but he isnt even being mentioned in here for obvious reasons). Edmunds is the captain and leader of the defense, everything runs through him. Milano being a year older than Edmunds is not even close to an argument that "Milano is the leader" of this unit lol

I've watched them play quite closely and based on those observations, Milano a)makes plays, and b)isn't out of position. You don't think the Pats took advantage of his absence? Milano is a stud. Edmunds has GOT to improve his recognition or I'm not sure he's a MLB. It's quite possible that Edmunds would be an even better WILL than Milano, but that's not what the team is looking for out of the number 16 pick.

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On 6/13/2019 at 12:44 PM, noacls said:

Edmunds got pushed around quite a bit last year, that goes with his misdiagnosing plays and taking bad angles. I know he is young but lack of instincts was his knock in college. He has a long way to go especially with the seasons Leonard, VanderEsch,  and Warner had. I hope he turns out. 

I think Edmonds had a better season than VanderEsch.  Edmonds position in this D is more difficult than VE in Dallas.  Leonard is a machine.

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Posted (edited)
On 6/13/2019 at 6:33 PM, BobDVA said:

Could you please share that lack of instincts knock in college link please?  I seemed to have missed that one.

 

Google Vosean Joseph Draft Profile 

 

First link; https://www.nfl.com/prospects/vosean-joseph?id=32194a4f-5327-9094-dac1-97c8315d8803

 

  • Instincts are below average

He has a couple of other difficult if not impossible things to coach.  

Seems way premature putting a 5th-round LB on this list.  

Also from that link;   

"His tape has no middle ground, it's either really impressive or really ugly. Now go look at his production this year and you realize you can coach some ugly out of his play. He's a '5' right now but we can turn him into a '9.'" - AFC defensive coach

That sounds like it could easily be one of our coaches overstating how easy it'll be.  They seem to be like that, the "smarter by half" methodology.  We'll see either way.  

Seems a little small and lanky to me, kind of like Vallejo.  Their draft profiles have enough similarities.  Vallejo's college numbers were notably better.  

 

Edited by Ronin

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47 minutes ago, Ronin said:

 

Google Vosean Joseph Draft Profile 

 

First link; https://www.nfl.com/prospects/vosean-joseph?id=32194a4f-5327-9094-dac1-97c8315d8803

 

  • Instincts are below average

He has a couple of other difficult if not impossible things to coach.  

Seems way premature putting a 5th-round LB on this list.  

Also from that link;   

"His tape has no middle ground, it's either really impressive or really ugly. Now go look at his production this year and you realize you can coach some ugly out of his play. He's a '5' right now but we can turn him into a '9.'" - AFC defensive coach

That sounds like it could easily be one of our coaches overstating how easy it'll be.  They seem to be like that, the "smarter by half" methodology.  We'll see either way.  

Seems a little small and lanky to me, kind of like Vallejo.  Their draft profiles have enough similarities.  Vallejo's college numbers were notably better.  

 

Didn't a few scouts say that they observed Joseph roaming and creating his own assignments? He has scary ability and I hope he responds well to coaching.

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On 6/13/2019 at 7:44 PM, noacls said:

Edmunds got pushed around quite a bit last year, that goes with his misdiagnosing plays and taking bad angles. I know he is young but lack of instincts was his knock in college. He has a long way to go especially with the seasons Leonard, VanderEsch,  and Warner had. I hope he turns out. 

This is true but he was 20yrs old and was making the calls for #2 ranked defense on the field that took massive responsibility.  I'm guessing he was playing with his head on a swivel.  He did seem to get better in the latter part of the season and I fully expect him to be much better in yr2

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32 minutes ago, Rocket94 said:

Didn't a few scouts say that they observed Joseph roaming and creating his own assignments? He has scary ability and I hope he responds well to coaching.

 

I'm sure different scouts come up with different things, eh. 

 

I guess we'll see.  Just not sure it's wise to pencil in a 5th-rounder with glaring issues into the mix of a discussion as to one of three LBs for optimal fit in the modern NFL, eh.  

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11 minutes ago, BillsFan1988 said:

This is true but he was 20yrs old and was making the calls for #2 ranked defense on the field that took massive responsibility.  I'm guessing he was playing with his head on a swivel.  He did seem to get better in the latter part of the season and I fully expect him to be much better in yr2


Yeah. Sometimes I don't think people can imagine what it's like to be quarterbacking an NFL defense -- and playing a position that you never played before in your life, no less -- at the age that most players are still sophomores or juniors in college. It was a MASSIVE amount of responsibility and learning they handed him. He had his rough moments, yes, but by December, he was starting to really get the hang of things, as evidenced by his Rookie of the Month award. His future is extremely bright.

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15 minutes ago, Ronin said:

 

I'm sure different scouts come up with different things, eh. 

 

I guess we'll see.  Just not sure it's wise to pencil in a 5th-rounder with glaring issues into the mix of a discussion as to one of three LBs for optimal fit in the modern NFL, eh.  

As much as I like Joseph...I would agree with you.

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3 hours ago, Rocket94 said:

As much as I like Joseph...I would agree with you.

 

Hey, 5th round, if he ends up a good depth player it was a good pick, eh.  

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2 minutes ago, Ronin said:

 

Hey, 5th round, if he ends up a good depth player it was a good pick, eh.  

Yes...either way its a good thing. It will be interesting to see how this plays out.

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Posted (edited)
On 6/14/2019 at 7:16 PM, LSHMEAB said:

I've watched them play quite closely and based on those observations, Milano a)makes plays, and b)isn't out of position. You don't think the Pats took advantage of his absence? Milano is a stud. Edmunds has GOT to improve his recognition or I'm not sure he's a MLB. It's quite possible that Edmunds would be an even better WILL than Milano, but that's not what the team is looking for out of the number 16 pick.

 

cool, im glad you liked what you saw from Milano. I too like what I see from him, but for anyone to call him the leader of this LB unit must mean that person smokes a lot of crack 

Edited by PaattMaann
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big tre was pretty bad to start and pretty great to end.  mcbean looks for guys with huge talent and a stacked toolbox, and figure they can corch em up to play.  cam, star, josh allen, tre white (big play tre, vs big tre who is edumnds), and the rest are all huge athletic talent guys.

 

with a balanced 4-3 d stacked with talent up front, i think all the backers and edmunds in particular are gonna have a monster year.

 

it seems like the closer to the ball you line up, the more raw talent mcbean wants, the further away the more they prize skills, at least on the d side of the ball.  our DTs are physical monsters, DEs a mix, LBs err on the side of transcendent athletic ability, safeties are much more cerebral and skilled players.  the corners IMO are a bit of a special case all over the NFL, it's just hard to find someone who can cover, but i think our guys play with a lot of skill.

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On 6/13/2019 at 8:30 AM, PaattMaann said:

"the leader of the group is Milano"....whaaaaatttt???

I am not sure how knowledgeable the author of the article is. Milano is not an inside linebacker. Edmunds is the leader of the defense. Vosean has yet to play a real NFL game.

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Posted (edited)
8 hours ago, JackKemp said:

I am not sure how knowledgeable the author of the article is. Milano is not an inside linebacker. Edmunds is the leader of the defense. Vosean has yet to play a real NFL game.

Yes. Like we keep saying, Joseph has a very good arsenal of skills. As long as he grasps the playbook and responds well to coaching...he could be scary. As one scout put it, "Stick a $50 bill on each page of his playbook to get his attention!" It is up to him. He can be as good as he wants to be...this is the NFL and he needs to employ total focus on his game. 

Edited by Rocket94
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On 6/13/2019 at 9:36 PM, noacls said:

Draft Diamonds:

Negatives: 

Tremaine doesn’t have great instincts and I believe part of that is due to his young age. He can be a little slow in his decision making as well as be lured in by misdirection plays. Edmunds will have to try and strengthen his upper and lower body strength. (That will come in due time as he get’s older and his body fills out.) He will from time to time have a bust in man coverage from time to time, Which isn’t due to his lack of playing ability. It’s more due to his mental mistakes.

Do you think that he showed improvement as the season went on for him last year?

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Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, Mark Vader said:

Do you think that he showed improvement as the season went on for him last year?

Somewhat, but he was really bad the last New England game. 

Edited by noacls

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2 hours ago, noacls said:

Somewhat, but he was really bad the last New England game. 

I think that the Bills took the right approach in having Edmunds play as much as he did.

I was at the Chargers game, and he was targeted all game, and it was tough to watch.

As the season went on, I saw him play better.

There is no question that he can still improve his game, and I think he will.

Also, try not to obsess over what players like Leonard & Vander Esch are doing, because you are setting yourself up for bitterness towards what we have.

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Posted (edited)

Any word on what Tyrel Dodson situation looking like? I was excited when we got him...

Edited by HuSeYiN_NYC

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Posted (edited)
On 6/15/2019 at 2:07 PM, Logic said:


Yeah. Sometimes I don't think people can imagine what it's like to be quarterbacking an NFL defense -- and playing a position that you never played before in your life, no less -- at the age that most players are still sophomores or juniors in college. It was a MASSIVE amount of responsibility and learning they handed him. He had his rough moments, yes, but by December, he was starting to really get the hang of things, as evidenced by his Rookie of the Month award. His future is extremely bright.

I agree. We devote the majority of our time worrying about young quarterbacks, but the responsibility placed on a young MLB new to the league and position is immense in itself.

Edited by Rocket94

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On 6/13/2019 at 8:14 AM, colin said:

 

rock paper scissors bro, totally bang on.

 

the balanced 4-3 d that mcbean and co run is actually ideal in that case, because it's not super focused on one single thing so it can (when run well with good talent) be effective vs multiple types of fronts

Is that why the Patriots ran for over 300 yards against us in week 16?😅

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