Greatest Musical Composers in Rock/Pop/Country/etc

[K-9]

3 minutes ago, row_33 said:

 

he got around

 

 

many men and women made a fortune in the 20th century not being able to read a note of music

 

one in particular is really aggravating as he keeps talking about basic chord changes during interviews... "you have a C, then a G which is really nice..."

 

 

 

More power to them as I don’t think it detracts from their musical genius or the mastery they achieved playing instruments or singing. Some great musicians invented their own forms of notation as well, so I just can’t hold a lack of formal musical training against them, either. 

 

But classical composing is just a different animal entirely vs. pop music constructs, even though some pop pieces are far more complex than others in their own right. But it’s like comparing a Renaissance art work to a paint by numbers. 

[OGTEleven]

Mark Knopfler is a legitimate composer which can be seen not just in his work on albums but also on soundtracks he scored.  A lot of his music is very complex.  I'm not sure who composed Close to the Edge by Yes but whoever did is also damn good.

Edited June 7, 2019 by OGTEleven

[row_33]

15 minutes ago, K-9 said:

More power to them as I don’t think it detracts from their musical genius or the mastery they achieved playing instruments or singing. Some great musicians invented their own forms of notation as well, so I just can’t hold a lack of formal musical training against them, either. 

 

But classical composing is just a different animal entirely vs. pop music constructs, even though some pop pieces are far more complex than others in their own right. But it’s like comparing a Renaissance art work to a paint by numbers. 

 

for sure, nobody who is academic or up there in the clouded has found anything but decline in culture the last 50 years.

 

but i still like it

 

 

14 minutes ago, OGTEleven said:

Mark Knopfler is a legitimate composer which can be seen not just in his work on albums but also on soundtracks he scored.  A lot of his music is very complex.  I'm not sure who composed Close to the Edge by Yes but whoever did is also damn good.

 

the Prog Rock era gave us a lot of amazing musicianship (and pretension)

 

 

[ChevyVanMiller]

Paul Simon deserves serious recognition.

[bdutton]

Burt Bacharach

 

https://e n.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_songs_written_by_Burt_Bacharach

[DC Tom]

4 hours ago, K-9 said:

I mean no disrespect to modern age pop music composers, but let’s face it, they aren’t composing pieces with anywhere near the complexity of classical composers. It’s night and day. So no, none of them should even be considered in that realm. 

 

Relative to each other, yes, there are better ones than the other. 

 

One possible exception: Steve Vai.  He's composing classical/rock fusion pieces that are pretty complex.  Not the finest example of this work - for two-thirds the piece, the Holland Metropole is just a backing track, but it gives you an idea.

 

 

The second disc of this set, it's much more classical pops, with far less shredding.

 

And Billy Joel composed some piano suites in the classical style.  They're not Prokofiev, but they're not bad either.  

 

And the Who, Pink Floyd, and David Bowie.  And maybe Hendrix.

 

Those are about the only ones I can think of, that in 100 years might be remembered in the same way as, say, a Schumann or Mahler are today.

[K-9]

4 minutes ago, DC Tom said:

 

One possible exception: Steve Vai.  He's composing classical/rock fusion pieces that are pretty complex.  Not the finest example of this work - for two-thirds the piece, the Holland Metropole is just a backing track, but it gives you an idea.

 

 

The second disc of this set, it's much more classical pops, with far less shredding.

 

And Billy Joel composed some piano suites in the classical style.  They're not Prokofiev, but they're not bad either.  

 

And the Who, Pink Floyd, and David Bowie.  And maybe Hendrix.

 

Those are about the only ones I can think of, that in 100 years might be remembered in the same way as, say, a Schumann or Mahler are today.

As I said, I don’t think modern pop compositions aren’t often complex as compared to each other,  but they simply do not possess the level complexity of a composition written by the great classical composers for full symphony orchestration. 

 

And I certainly don’t think the great pop composers of today are bad. Quite the contrary. But the OP postulated the idea of whether or not today’s popular composers in rock, c&w, etc., could be in the ranks of the likes of Beethoven or other great classical composers. I’ve yet to hear anything that would qualify. As good as it may be or as superior as it may be in its genre.

[DC Tom]

5 minutes ago, K-9 said:

As I said, I don’t think modern pop compositions aren’t often complex as compared to each other,  but they simply do not possess the level complexity of a composition written by the great classical composers for full symphony orchestration. 

 

And I certainly don’t think the great pop composers of today are bad. Quite the contrary. But the OP postulated the idea of whether or not today’s popular composers in rock, c&w, etc., could be in the ranks of the likes of Beethoven or other great classical composers. I’ve yet to hear anything that would qualify. As good as it may be or as superior as it may be in its genre.

 

I think you might be subject to selection bias, because the complex compositions don't get nearly as much exposure.

 

I was surprised I couldn't find a Vai symphony on YouTube to share, and never heard Joel's piano concerto outside of buying the CD.  Neither gets radio play, or is promoted on Spotify or iTunes.  If all you ever hear is mass-marketed pop/rock, you'll never hear classical-level complexity.  And there's definitely some I'd put up with Beethoven's Fuer Elise (hell, I'd put Joel's "Scene's From An Italian Restaurant" in that class), or Prokofiev's score for Aleksander Nevsky.

[K-9]

3 minutes ago, DC Tom said:

 

I think you might be subject to selection bias, because the complex compositions don't get nearly as much exposure.

 

I was surprised I couldn't find a Vai symphony on YouTube to share, and never heard Joel's piano concerto outside of buying the CD.  Neither gets radio play, or is promoted on Spotify or iTunes.  If all you ever hear is mass-marketed pop/rock, you'll never hear classical-level complexity.  And there's definitely some I'd put up with Beethoven's Fuer Elise (hell, I'd put Joel's "Scene's From An Italian Restaurant" in that class), or Prokofiev's score for Aleksander Nevsky.

I don’t think so as I’d agree that Joel’s or perhaps another pop composer of a single composition might, might,  compare favorably to a short, piano solo composition like Fur Elise. There’s just not much to it in terms of notation and pages needed. 

 

I’m referring to a classical composer of music for full symphony orchestration. Even if it’s a shorter symphony of say 20 minutes, every piece in the orchestra is notated, upwards of 100 in most full symphony orchestras. Then there’s the behemoths of classical compositions like Mahler, of over 90 minutes. Again, with every piece separately notated. If there are pop composers doing that kind of stuff today, I’m willing to give them a listen. I just haven’t heard that level of complexity in pop music to this point. That’s not selection bias, it’s lack of experience. 

 

 

[US Egg]

 

[dickleyjones]

12 hours ago, DC Tom said:

 

I think you might be subject to selection bias, because the complex compositions don't get nearly as much exposure.

 

I was surprised I couldn't find a Vai symphony on YouTube to share, and never heard Joel's piano concerto outside of buying the CD.  Neither gets radio play, or is promoted on Spotify or iTunes.  If all you ever hear is mass-marketed pop/rock, you'll never hear classical-level complexity.  And there's definitely some I'd put up with Beethoven's Fuer Elise (hell, I'd put Joel's "Scene's From An Italian Restaurant" in that class), or Prokofiev's score for Aleksander Nevsky.

 

He may be great, but he will not be remembered for his symphonic works. I stand by my answer of John Williams. His name will be remembered, he is the big daddy of film music, and he writes popular, catchy and somewhat complex works.

[K-9]

9 minutes ago, dickleyjones said:

 

He may be great, but he will not be remembered for his symphonic works. I stand by my answer of John Williams. His name will be remembered, he is the big daddy of film music, and he writes popular, catchy and somewhat complex works.

Agree entirely. But while Williams is a modern composer, I don’t put him in the pop category as mentioned in the op. 

[row_33]

55 minutes ago, K-9 said:

Agree entirely. But while Williams is a modern composer, I don’t put him in the pop category as mentioned in the op. 

 

A true modern composer is the exact opposite of the sugary pop of Williams, he is 200 years behind in the real composer world

 

more like Broadway showtune status, which is a good thing to have mastered

 

 

 

 

[K-9]

3 minutes ago, row_33 said:

 

A true modern composer is the exact opposite of the sugary pop of Williams, he is 200 years behind in the real composer world

 

more like Broadway showtune status, which is a good thing to have mastered

 

 

 

 

Whether we like his compositions or not, doesn’t deter from the sheer complexity of some of the works he’s composed for symphony orchestration. All the great classical composers had a clunker or two here and there, too. Their contemporary audiences were just as finicky as we are today.

[row_33]

1 hour ago, K-9 said:

Whether we like his compositions or not, doesn’t deter from the sheer complexity of some of the works he’s composed for symphony orchestration. All the great classical composers had a clunker or two here and there, too. Their contemporary audiences were just as finicky as we are today.

 

Sheer complexity is clearly not something you have looked into for music, he writes sugary pop drivel, gold for him

 

i barely recommend it but give a listen to actual “classical” composers of the last 129 years...

 

Just letting you know as a football fan on this board, but bringing up Williams as complex with real music fans will get you laughed at to the point that you’ll want to jump off a bridge...

[K-9]

2 minutes ago, row_33 said:

 

Sheer complexity is clearly not something you have looked into for music, he writes sugary pop drivel, gold for him

 

i barely recommend it but give a listen to actual “classical” composers of the last 129 years...

 

Just letting you know as a football fan on this board, but bringing up Williams as complex with real music fans will get you laughed at to the point that you’ll want to jump off a bridge...

As a football fan? Ok. 

 

Anyway, none of the myopic pinheads around here are capable causing me duress to the point of jumping off a bridge.? Oh, and I didn’t bring up Williams, somebody else did. 

 

But I get it, you’re not a Williams fan. Good for you. Neither am I, really. But please don’t tell me he hasn’t composed some complex,  full symphony orchestral pieces. It’s seems like a matter of different tastes and debating different tastes is a futile exercise.

 

Everything composed by the greats of all time was NOT some masterful complex work, either. But their symphonies certainly were. And as I’ve already stated, I’m confining my discussion to symphony composition only and, as the op suggested, I don’t see how a modern pop music composer can compare to that in terms of complexity. At least in my limited experience. 

 

[dickleyjones]

1 hour ago, row_33 said:

 

Sheer complexity is clearly not something you have looked into for music, he writes sugary pop drivel, gold for him

 

i barely recommend it but give a listen to actual “classical” composers of the last 129 years...

 

Just letting you know as a football fan on this board, but bringing up Williams as complex with real music fans will get you laughed at to the point that you’ll want to jump off a bridge...

 

it may be sugary pop but it is some of the very best sugary pop out there. writing tonally and to picture is quite limiting for a composer. Williams mastered the technique and set the stage for pretty much all film music afterward. "classical" audiences may scoff at Williams, but i think most "classical" composers would agree that some of his work has excellent qualities, foremost being well written suprisingly-not-so-simple tonal melodies. 

 

as for complexity, that's relative. complexity is a thing for some composers from the past 129 years. but there are plenty of new classical compositions lauded with praise which are more simple than a Harry Potter score, if not downright kitsch...yet somehow it is great in its simplicity/kitsch.

[DC Tom]

5 hours ago, dickleyjones said:

 

He may be great, but he will not be remembered for his symphonic works. I stand by my answer of John Williams. His name will be remembered, he is the big daddy of film music, and he writes popular, catchy and somewhat complex works.

 

5 hours ago, K-9 said:

Agree entirely. But while Williams is a modern composer, I don’t put him in the pop category as mentioned in the op. 

 

Exactly.  Williams is not a pop/rock musician.  The topic is pretty constrained, and you're not discussing it.

 

And if you wanted to expand it to include true symphonic composers, there's a few I could think of that are much better than Williams.  

[K-9]

19 minutes ago, DC Tom said:

 

 

Exactly.  Williams is not a pop/rock musician.  The topic is pretty constrained, and you're not discussing it.

 

And if you wanted to expand it to include true symphonic composers, there's a few I could think of that are much better than Williams.  

I agree, there are several more contemporary composers I’d put above Williams for sure. I’m not necessarily a fan of his by any stretch. 

[dickleyjones]

59 minutes ago, DC Tom said:

 

 

Exactly.  Williams is not a pop/rock musician.  The topic is pretty constrained, and you're not discussing it.

 

And if you wanted to expand it to include true symphonic composers, there's a few I could think of that are much better than Williams.  

 

I guess we just disagree re: Williams being "popular". What is more popular than the star wars theme? Absolutely agree we could name a plethora of symphonic composers better than Williams.