RiotAct Posted June 4, 2019 Share Posted June 4, 2019 3 minutes ago, Limeaid said: Of course not. The majority will probably be out of town fans of opposing teams Bills sell tickets to via partner scalpers. well, THAT’S a comforting thought! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Punching Bag Posted June 4, 2019 Share Posted June 4, 2019 14 minutes ago, RiotAct said: well, THAT’S a comforting thought! Well it makes sense because to most opposing fans their own stadiums are far too expensive to get tickets. I could even see the Bills selling multiple year ticket packages where the opposing fan gets the same seat multiple years in a row selling the same seat to P*ts, Phish and JEST fans. By putting opposing fans in a section they could raise the price and make it more fan friendly. For more money they should consider putting locks on lockers in opposing team locker room requiring coin use, put cash bar in press box, implement fast lanes at gates like at amusement parks, rent electronic banner strip boards around stadium for which fans can put up messages (screened of course to prevent profanity and adverting) and put electrical outlets in seats that you pay for via mobile devices. Anything for the mighty dollar. 2 hours ago, Drunken Pygmy Goat said: But, the state of New York has already contributed a lot of money into at least 2 projects at NEF since 2014. A lot more was contributed to downstate stadium. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ALF Posted June 4, 2019 Share Posted June 4, 2019 The league wants higher ticket prices is the bottom line. Did the Bills ever survey season ticket holders how much more they would pay at the present or a new stadium ? If they go to 18 games, January could be difficult Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Royale with Cheese Posted June 4, 2019 Share Posted June 4, 2019 20 hours ago, 4_kidd_4 said: Go ahead Rog. Show us the “economic benefit” new stadiums provide to anyone else besides the owners/league. I won’t hold my breath.... If you do, don't do it in water because you won't survive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted June 4, 2019 Share Posted June 4, 2019 10 hours ago, Rochesterfan said: I listened to Goodell and what I hear is that he wants long term stability and viability for Buffalo and the best way to do that is via a new stadium. The new collective bargaining sessions are coming up and one of the things that the big revenue teams often look at is doing away with more and more of the revenue sharing. We always look at these sessions as players versus owners, but the owners often have their own internal wars over how to split up the money and last time the big revenue teams got to keep a larger percentage of home game revenue. I would not be surprised if the team ends up with further losses of revenue if they do not generate more for the league. In the end the TV deal covers most costs, but the extra revenue goes a long way to pay for amenities and that is what is driving Buffalo right now. They may need to increase their own sources of revenue just to help balance out things across the league. Huh? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rochesterfan Posted June 4, 2019 Share Posted June 4, 2019 Just now, Mr. WEO said: Huh? I believe bigger market teams that have built and invested in new stadiums are going to look at additional ways of keeping more of their own revenue in this agreement. For example in the last go around the bigger owners asked for and got more of the local revenue and suite money that used to go into the money sharing pool - meaning a place like Dallas gets more in local revenue than a place like Buffalo (shared partially with visiting teams). I think the next step is these owners are going to push to no longer split their home revenue with the visiting team and the home team keeps all the revenue they generate - making Dallas even more money and putting Buffalo at NEF further behind. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted June 4, 2019 Author Share Posted June 4, 2019 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted June 4, 2019 Share Posted June 4, 2019 25 minutes ago, ALF said: The league wants higher ticket prices is the bottom line. Did the Bills ever survey season ticket holders how much more they would pay at the present or a new stadium ? If they go to 18 games, January could be difficult The league wants more revenue. Ticket prices are a part of that but only a little part. If the Bills just decided, “we aren’t doing anything else but raising all prices by 25%.” The league wouldn’t be satisfied. The Bills would be able to kick in a larger portion of the shared revenue and their value would increase. However, they would miss the bazillion other revenue opportunities that a new stadium presents. That’s the “long-term” stability that Goodell referenced. It is ALL about revenue maximization. Ticket prices are a little piece and a short-term fix because there is a tipping point in terms of what the market will allow. There is no “ceiling” as to how much money you can generate elsewhere. 15 minutes ago, Rochesterfan said: I believe bigger market teams that have built and invested in new stadiums are going to look at additional ways of keeping more of their own revenue in this agreement. For example in the last go around the bigger owners asked for and got more of the local revenue and suite money that used to go into the money sharing pool - meaning a place like Dallas gets more in local revenue than a place like Buffalo (shared partially with visiting teams). I think the next step is these owners are going to push to no longer split their home revenue with the visiting team and the home team keeps all the revenue they generate - making Dallas even more money and putting Buffalo at NEF further behind. I 100% agree except for the last piece. It will never be all or nothing. The larger market teams are going to push to split less and less. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted June 4, 2019 Share Posted June 4, 2019 Some good stuff from Sal: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Posted June 4, 2019 Share Posted June 4, 2019 38 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said: The league wants more revenue. Ticket prices are a part of that but only a little part. If the Bills just decided, “we aren’t doing anything else but raising all prices by 25%.” The league wouldn’t be satisfied. The Bills would be able to kick in a larger portion of the shared revenue and their value would increase. However, they would miss the bazillion other revenue opportunities that a new stadium presents. That’s the “long-term” stability that Goodell referenced. It is ALL about revenue maximization. Ticket prices are a little piece and a short-term fix because there is a tipping point in terms of what the market will allow. There is no “ceiling” as to how much money you can generate elsewhere. I 100% agree except for the last piece. It will never be all or nothing. The larger market teams are going to push to split less and less. Out of curiosity, what are some of these bazillion other revenue opportunities that you speak of? Let us say for argument's sake that the Bills built a new open-air stadium (for apples to apples comparison) downtown, how would this help maximize the revenue...are new sponsors just going to flock to a new stadium? Just because there is a new stadium, does not mean there is a new, vibrant economy to support the higher costs, or help "maximize revenue." I cannot understand why some of these owners (who Goodell is a proxy for) do not get this simple concept. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted June 4, 2019 Share Posted June 4, 2019 5 minutes ago, Happy Gilmore said: Out of curiosity, what are some of these bazillion other revenue opportunities that you speak of? Let us say for argument's sake that the Bills built a new open-air stadium (for apples to apples comparison) downtown, how would this help maximize the revenue...are new sponsors just going to flock to a new stadium? Just because there is a new stadium, does not mean there is a new, vibrant economy to support the higher costs, or help "maximize revenue." I cannot understand why some of these owners (who Goodell is a proxy for) do not get this simple concept. Shops, restaurants, hotels, parking, concession, concerts, digital, sections of the stadium, advertising boards, etc... You have a completely clean slate. The sponsorship opportunities can be customized and in some cases even driven by the partner. I tell this story a lot on here but when we were doing upgrades to the arena here in New Orleans the state offered us a check each year. It was significantly higher than what we got in our previous lease and we declined. We asked instead of that check, invest a portion of it into the arena to give us “assets” to sell. We ended up generating way more that way and at a lesser cost to the state. It was an absolute win-win. The Bills will be VERY smart in how they develop this new stadium. The first thing that they will do is marry the best locations in the stadium with the best amenities. It’s backwards that this isn’t the case now but you need a clean slate to do it. There will be clubs, all-inclusive opportunities, loaded tickets (where you generate money off of slippage), etc... That’s just a few ways that they will generate more in stadium. The sponsorship opportunities will be even greater. As an example (just thinking out loud), how about a Tim Horton’s breakfast garden that opens an hour before the lots? In order to get in the lots an hour early you pay the $10 a head to go there. They offer donuts and coffee at no charge. Tim Horton’s pays the Bills for this advertising opportunity and the Bills turn around and monetize it to make more. Now this is just off the top of my head so it isn’t flushed out but it’s an example. Say Tim Horton’s paid $75k a game for this (which would be cheap) and the Bills had 5,000 people each week go to it (also conservative). That’s an additional $1.25M a year. How about giving a particular bus company exclusive rights to sponsor the bus lots? Let them pay you for that right and in turn that company gets “x” number of free spots (plus the signage). Now that company can advertise as “the official bus company of the Buffalo Bills” and charge a lesser rate because they don’t need to factor in parking. Or take it a step further, allow people on that companies’ buses a “tailgate village” that’s right there. They don’t have to leave where they are. The people that travel on a bus would absolutely pick that company as their top option. So basically, the bus company has paid for the right to be at capacity each home game. Again, this doesn’t even get into the digital opportunities that lie ahead. Chargers in your seat brought to you by National Grid. In game, highlights, replays, 360 views sponsored by DirecTv, etc... These aren’t fully hashed out but I hope that it gets the idea across that there are a lot of ways to make money. Dallas isn’t what they are worth because of their ticket prices. That’s a part of it. Their value is tied to their many, many revenue streams. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jrb1979 Posted June 4, 2019 Share Posted June 4, 2019 10 minutes ago, Happy Gilmore said: Out of curiosity, what are some of these bazillion other revenue opportunities that you speak of? Let us say for argument's sake that the Bills built a new open-air stadium (for apples to apples comparison) downtown, how would this help maximize the revenue...are new sponsors just going to flock to a new stadium? Just because there is a new stadium, does not mean there is a new, vibrant economy to support the higher costs, or help "maximize revenue." I cannot understand why some of these owners (who Goodell is a proxy for) do not get this simple concept. I new stadium may bring in new fans to games that didn't go before for various reasons. We already know that the NFL and the Pegulas aren't big fans of some of the things that goes on during tailgating. With a new stadium I can see tailgating being cut down in size. With smaller tailgating it will force people to eat and drink in the stadium. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
row_33 Posted June 4, 2019 Share Posted June 4, 2019 10 hours ago, RiotAct said: well, THAT’S a comforting thought! You came here for comfort.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Posted June 4, 2019 Share Posted June 4, 2019 16 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said: Shops, restaurants, hotels, parking, concession, concerts, digital, sections of the stadium, advertising boards, etc... You have a completely clean slate. The sponsorship opportunities can be customized and in some cases even driven by the partner. I tell this story a lot on here but when we were doing upgrades to the arena here in New Orleans the state offered us a check each year. It was significantly higher than what we got in our previous lease and we declined. We asked instead of that check, invest a portion of it into the arena to give us “assets” to sell. We ended up generating way more that way and at a lesser cost to the state. It was an absolute win-win. The Bills will be VERY smart in how they develop this new stadium. The first thing that they will do is marry the best locations in the stadium with the best amenities. It’s backwards that this isn’t the case now but you need a clean slate to do it. There will be clubs, all-inclusive opportunities, loaded tickets (where you generate money off of slippage), etc... That’s just a few ways that they will generate more in stadium. The sponsorship opportunities will be even greater. As an example (just thinking out loud), how about a Tim Horton’s breakfast garden that opens an hour before the lots? In order to get in the lots an hour early you pay the $10 a head to go there. They offer donuts and coffee at no charge. Tim Horton’s pays the Bills for this advertising opportunity and the Bills turn around and monetize it to make more. Now this is just off the top of my head so it isn’t flushed out but it’s an example. Say Tim Horton’s paid $75k a game for this (which would be cheap) and the Bills had 5,000 people each week go to it (also conservative). That’s an additional $1.25M a year. How about giving a particular bus company exclusive rights to sponsor the bus lots? Let them pay you for that right and in turn that company gets “x” number of free spots (plus the signage). Now that company can advertise as “the official bus company of the Buffalo Bills” and charge a lesser rate because they don’t need to factor in parking. Or take it a step further, allow people on that companies’ buses a “tailgate village” that’s right there. They don’t have to leave where they are. The people that travel on a bus would absolutely pick that company as their top option. So basically, the bus company has paid for the right to be at capacity each home game. Again, this doesn’t even get into the digital opportunities that lie ahead. Chargers in your seat brought to you by National Grid. In game, highlights, replays, 360 views sponsored by DirecTv, etc... These aren’t fully hashed out but I hope that it gets the idea across that there are a lot of ways to make money. Dallas isn’t what they are worth because of their ticket prices. That’s a part of it. Their value is tied to their many, many revenue streams. Interesting thoughts regarding Tim Hortons, bus parking, etc examples. Very practical. I guess I was thinking along the lines of a "Jerry World" which would not be practical. My concern with a new stadium would be PSLs that a good number of current season ticket holders would not want to pay, corporate/luxury boxes that would go unfilled since there is not the corporate base in WNY as say Washington or Dallas, as well as potentially higher food and drink prices, etc. Larger metro areas can support this, but WNY can not. Perhaps Terry's comment to the effect of a new stadium not being a palace, but rather a "Buffalo style" stadium would set expectations. If the Pegulas and OBD are thinking along the lines of what you listed, then maybe a new stadium is a possibility. I'd imagine funding for it will be a bit of a battle with the state and local governments (taxpayers) since there is a smaller tax base now than say 30 years ago. I would also guess that what the county can do with the old Ralph could play into this, as well. If it has the potential to sit largely vacant, I can't imagine the county would want to invest too much into a new stadium. Either way, taking any kind of action, whether major renovations to New Era field or a completely new stadium, will not happen until after the CBA in 2020, which has the potential to be a mess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atlbillsfan1975 Posted June 4, 2019 Share Posted June 4, 2019 I’d love a new stadium. If it could be anywhere near the waterfront and falls it would be a game changer for the city. I am also for reducing preseason and expanding regular season. Put in 2 byes and expand the rosters by 6 players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Posted June 4, 2019 Share Posted June 4, 2019 31 minutes ago, Jrb1979 said: I new stadium may bring in new fans to games that didn't go before for various reasons. We already know that the NFL and the Pegulas aren't big fans of some of the things that goes on during tailgating. With a new stadium I can see tailgating being cut down in size. With smaller tailgating it will force people to eat and drink in the stadium. The bolded is possible, but probably only for the short term. A new stadium will not guarantee new longer term fans; winning will do that. As far as tailgating, I could see how both the Pegulas and the NFL would be concerned about things such as jumping on tables of fire. I don't think tailgating would be gone, rather it would be scaled down. I've been to multiple Ravens games (their stadium is about 20 years old) and there is tailgating allowed, but no dizzy bat races or table jumping, etc. It also helps that there are many restaurants and bars within walking distance from the Ravens stadium, which would support a new stadium being built in downtown Buffalo argument that would help the local establishments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted June 4, 2019 Share Posted June 4, 2019 2 hours ago, Rochesterfan said: I believe bigger market teams that have built and invested in new stadiums are going to look at additional ways of keeping more of their own revenue in this agreement. For example in the last go around the bigger owners asked for and got more of the local revenue and suite money that used to go into the money sharing pool - meaning a place like Dallas gets more in local revenue than a place like Buffalo (shared partially with visiting teams). I think the next step is these owners are going to push to no longer split their home revenue with the visiting team and the home team keeps all the revenue they generate - making Dallas even more money and putting Buffalo at NEF further behind. Each owner keeps all of his team's luxury suite revenue, sponsorship revenue and naming rights revenue--they were/are not shared with other teams. However, the last CBA had the owners sharing suite revenue with players (as total revenue). The NFL distributed 8 billion in shared revenue to its teams last year. That model is not going to change. You might consider that a significant reason for such a massive and ever increasing free money handout to every team is that the most popular teams are fueling the revenue growth to the benefit of teams like Buffalo. The Bills/Pegula are not being "put further behind"....they are being maintained as a very profitable business because of the disproportionally higher revenue generated by a few teams. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Posted June 4, 2019 Share Posted June 4, 2019 11 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said: Each owner keeps all of his team's luxury suite revenue, sponsorship revenue and naming rights revenue--they were/are not shared with other teams. However, the last CBA had the owners sharing suite revenue with players (as total revenue). The NFL distributed 8 billion in shared revenue to its teams last year. That model is not going to change. You might consider that a significant reason for such a massive and ever increasing free money handout to every team is that the most popular teams are fueling the revenue growth to the benefit of teams like Buffalo. The Bills/Pegula are not being "put further behind"....they are being maintained as a very profitable business because of the disproportionally higher revenue generated by a few teams. I think d-bag owners such as Jerry Jones, Dan Snyder, Robert Kraft will want to change this at the next CBA. There may still be revenue sharing, but I would guess the argument they'll make is that larger market teams bring in more revenue, so they should keep more of that revenue. It is the history of now, never mind how these small market teams were integral in making the NFL what it is now. That is lost on, and ignored, by many of today's owners. They completely discount the potential that maybe fans want to see tradition that made the NFL great, maintained. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted June 4, 2019 Share Posted June 4, 2019 37 minutes ago, Happy Gilmore said: Interesting thoughts regarding Tim Hortons, bus parking, etc examples. Very practical. I guess I was thinking along the lines of a "Jerry World" which would not be practical. My concern with a new stadium would be PSLs that a good number of current season ticket holders would not want to pay, corporate/luxury boxes that would go unfilled since there is not the corporate base in WNY as say Washington or Dallas, as well as potentially higher food and drink prices, etc. Larger metro areas can support this, but WNY can not. Perhaps Terry's comment to the effect of a new stadium not being a palace, but rather a "Buffalo style" stadium would set expectations. If the Pegulas and OBD are thinking along the lines of what you listed, then maybe a new stadium is a possibility. I'd imagine funding for it will be a bit of a battle with the state and local governments (taxpayers) since there is a smaller tax base now than say 30 years ago. I would also guess that what the county can do with the old Ralph could play into this, as well. If it has the potential to sit largely vacant, I can't imagine the county would want to invest too much into a new stadium. Either way, taking any kind of action, whether major renovations to New Era field or a completely new stadium, will not happen until after the CBA in 2020, which has the potential to be a mess. I guess my point is we need to stop thinking about this as Jerry World or MetLife and start trying to be Jacksonville. There is no reason that the Bills can’t climb from 32nd in revenue to 25 (or maybe even higher). The goal isn’t to go from the lowest revenue to the highest. It’s just to grow. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4_kidd_4 Posted June 4, 2019 Share Posted June 4, 2019 3 hours ago, Royale with Cheese said: If you do, don't do it in water because you won't survive. Instructions unclear, placing head back in water bucket.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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