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Stanley Cup Finals: Bruins Vs Blues

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https://theathletic.com/1003253/2019/05/31/ryan-oreillys-unique-approach-to-the-game-began-long-before-the-nhl/

 

“It’s been an absolute rollercoaster. Throughout the whole thing,” O’Reilly said.

 

“It’s crazy how one year can change so dramatically.  Being so disappointed. And not thinking I was going to be traded at all. Sitting there at the end of the year thinking how do I be a part of this change? Thinking I’ve got to do some things different in order to get this group in the right way.

 

Next thing you know I hear I’m kind of on the block and then I’m traded.”

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ROR can say whatever he wants for public consumption. If the fella didn't want out, he wouldn't have been traded. 

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6 minutes ago, Lurker said:

https://theathletic.com/1003253/2019/05/31/ryan-oreillys-unique-approach-to-the-game-began-long-before-the-nhl/

 

“It’s been an absolute rollercoaster. Throughout the whole thing,” O’Reilly said.

 

“It’s crazy how one year can change so dramatically.  Being so disappointed. And not thinking I was going to be traded at all. Sitting there at the end of the year thinking how do I be a part of this change? Thinking I’ve got to do some things different in order to get this group in the right way.

 

Next thing you know I hear I’m kind of on the block and then I’m traded.”

 

Sounds like he just admitted that he was a ***** captain.

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2 minutes ago, Dr. Who said:

ROR can say whatever he wants for public consumption. If the fella didn't want out, he wouldn't have been traded. 

Yep. It was a carefully orchestrated exit. 

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40 minutes ago, K-9 said:

Yep. It was a carefully orchestrated exit. 

In which case, ROR's public expression ought to be ironized, no? He's not just some simple, hardworking emo who was blindsided by a trade. But maybe Jbots didn't realize ROR was a good player so he traded him for a bad return just because, you know, he's a dim.

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7 minutes ago, Dr. Who said:

In which case, ROR's public expression ought to be ironized, no? He's not just some simple, hardworking emo who was blindsided by a trade. But maybe Jbots didn't realize ROR was a good player so he traded him for a bad return just because, you know, he's a dim.

Yeah, I’m pretty sure that’s it, too. JBotts simply had no idea O’Reilly was any good at all. He probably thought he got a steal from St. Louis in return, too. 

 

Seriously though, if Pegs had insisted on paying that $7.5m bonus BEFORE the trade, it probably would have opened up additional trade opportunities with other teams. 

 

Anyway, as good as ROR is, if not for Binnington’s arrival and, more importantly, the naming of Berube as coach, he’d still have been the sulking post game emo he was his first three months in St. Louis when he, once again, was helping his team to a last place position in the standings. 

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O'Reilly is a follower, not a captain.  The Sabres mistake was thinking he was one.

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13 minutes ago, Q-baby! said:

Lots of sour grapes here. 

Not from me. I congratulate Ryan O’Reilly on winning the cup and being named MVP.

 

I am also glad he’s no longer on my favorite team. Have been since we traded him. Good a player as he is. He wanted out and needed to go. It wasn’t a healthy situation for anybody concerned. 

 

 

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Nice to see former Leaf Nancy Steen hoist the Cup

 

 

 

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41 minutes ago, K-9 said:

Not from me. I congratulate Ryan O’Reilly on winning the cup and being named MVP.

 

I am also glad he’s no longer on my favorite team. Have been since we traded him. Good a player as he is. He wanted out and needed to go. It wasn’t a healthy situation for anybody concerned. 

 

 

I've read and heard radio reports that the GM was determined to trade him. So that tells you that the situation was untenable. It was also reported that another team that was interested in him was Montreal who also needed a second line center. Apparently the return in each case was not so overwhelming. I have not and will not be critical of the trade because obviously the GM felt compelled that the locker room needed to be altered. What is noticeable about this deal is that I don't recall any players making any statements on or off the record criticizing the organization for this trade. 

 

 

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13 minutes ago, JohnC said:

I've read and heard radio reports that the GM was determined to trade him. So that tells you that the situation was untenable. It was also reported that another team that was interested in him was Montreal who also needed a second line center. Apparently the return in each case was not so overwhelming. I have not and will not be critical of the trade because obviously the GM felt compelled that the locker room needed to be altered. What is noticeable about this deal is that I don't recall any players making any statements on or off the record criticizing the organization for this trade. 

 

 

 

some times it really is "all business"

 

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2 minutes ago, row_33 said:

 

some times it really is "all business"

 

In hockey more than most sports the "mix" in the room is very important. It's has to be remembered that ROR was a captain and a core player. When an organization invests in a player like him and the player is not invested in the team then that is not a simple problem but a festering problem that needs to be addressed. The best way to deal with the fallout of the void created by his departure is to act as quickly to fill the void. This is going to be an important offseason for the GM to address some of the roster needs. 

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13 minutes ago, JohnC said:

In hockey more than most sports the "mix" in the room is very important. It's has to be remembered that ROR was a captain and a core player. When an organization invests in a player like him and the player is not invested in the team then that is not a simple problem but a festering problem that needs to be addressed. The best way to deal with the fallout of the void created by his departure is to act as quickly to fill the void. This is going to be an important offseason for the GM to address some of the roster needs. 

 

i believe that Mark Messier had the ability to scare a teammate into trying a little harder, just by staring at him between the 2nd and 3rd.  No other sport can do that.

 

The Leafs always beat up a teammate who sleeps with the wife of another Leaf, pretty severe injuries dished out.

 

 

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Just now, row_33 said:

 

i believe that Mark Messier had the ability to scare a teammate into trying a little harder, just by staring at him between the 2nd and 3rd.  No other sport can do that.

 

The Leafs always beat up a teammate who sleeps with the wife of another Leaf, pretty severe injuries dished out.

 

 

Mark Messier was a genuine tough guy. What gave him credibility is not his words or menacing stare but his fanatical effort. No one on the ice was going to play harder. His passion was real. However, there are different styles of leadership. All of them revolve around authenticity. You can't be someone you are not. A player like Skinner shows leadership not through verbal fluidity but through effort in preparation and in the games. 

 

The sports world in every sport is a small world. There are few secrets. Having sex with a teammates wife or significant other is fraught with danger and complexity. The link below is about the infamous NY Yankee wife swap that at the time caused a public sensation but was well known by the baseball world before it became public. 

 

https://www.nydailynews.com/sports/baseball/yankees/original-wife-swap-yankee-pitchers-trade-lives-article-1.2138703

 

 

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25 minutes ago, JohnC said:

I've read and heard radio reports that the GM was determined to trade him. So that tells you that the situation was untenable. It was also reported that another team that was interested in him was Montreal who also needed a second line center. Apparently the return in each case was not so overwhelming. I have not and will not be critical of the trade because obviously the GM felt compelled that the locker room needed to be altered. What is noticeable about this deal is that I don't recall any players making any statements on or off the record criticizing the organization for this trade. 

 

 

I can't disagree with any of this. Especially the lack of comments by the players as you pointed out. 

 

And I'm still intrigued by the Cam O'Reilly element to it all. Something was off about that entire deal with the Marlies. Nobody can convince me JBotts didn't want him off the Amerks; and quickly. I think there may be some truth to the rumors about him being a prick towards Nylander and JBotts wasn't having it. 

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24 minutes ago, JohnC said:

Mark Messier was a genuine tough guy. What gave him credibility is not his words or menacing stare but his fanatical effort. No one on the ice was going to play harder. His passion was real. However, there are different styles of leadership. All of them revolve around authenticity. You can't be someone you are not. A player like Skinner shows leadership not through verbal fluidity but through effort in preparation and in the games. 

 

The sports world in every sport is a small world. There are few secrets. Having sex with a teammates wife or significant other is fraught with danger and complexity. The link below is about the infamous NY Yankee wife swap that at the time caused a public sensation but was well known by the baseball world before it became public. 

 

https://www.nydailynews.com/sports/baseball/yankees/original-wife-swap-yankee-pitchers-trade-lives-article-1.2138703

 

 

 

The Leafs wound up trading a Hall of Famer in his prime and another had broken bones and another quit with a few weeks to go before the playoffs started, over 3 incidents.

 

allegedly...

 

 

 

 

 

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4 minutes ago, K-9 said:

I can't disagree with any of this. Especially the lack of comments by the players as you pointed out. 

 

And I'm still intrigued by the Cam O'Reilly element to it all. Something was off about that entire deal with the Marlies. Nobody can convince me JBotts didn't want him off the Amerks; and quickly. I think there may be some truth to the rumors about him being a prick towards Nylander and JBotts wasn't having it. 

What is surprising about the ROR situation, before and after the trade, is that not much has been revealed to what was going on in the room.

 

Paul Hamilton who follows the team for WGR rarely says anything negative about player from a character standpoint. He is not reluctant to criticize players for their play but not malicious about the players as individuals. The one player he was willing to criticize beyond the play was ROR. He stated on more than a few occasions that he got tired of his "the burden is on me" and "I got to do better" act.

 

I'm not out to malign this guy. He was on the team that won the cup and he was an instrumental player. Congratulations for him. But he having success with the Blues doesn't mean that moving him wasn't the right thing to do. As I said before the GM has to make some moves this offseason to mitigate the loss resulting from that deal. That would be the best response.  

4 minutes ago, row_33 said:

 

The Leafs wound up trading a Hall of Famer in his prime and another had broken bones and another quit with a few weeks to go before the playoffs started, over 3 incidents.

 

allegedly...

 

 

 

 

 

Who?

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Posted (edited)

 

 

i wasn’t taking about just point totals. As Lurker said, he played over 200 minutes more than any other forward. He should put up points with that many minutes and that much opportunity (at 5v5 and on the PP). 

 

 

 

I was talking about his effort on the ice on a shift by shift basis. I am talking about him dogging it on the backcheck. I am talking about him standing there doing nothing in the d zone while his man stands open in front of the net. I am talking about him no longer staying after practice like he did in his first season(s) here. I am talking about him being much less driven than he was in year 1 here, and kind of checked out mentally. 

 

Theres a lot more to hockey than just point totals. 

 

 

ROR even basically implied that he wasn’t giving his full effort in his year end comments.  

 

 

 

If you think the ROR buffalo had last year is the same ROR we had year 1, or that STL had this year, then I really don’t know what to say, except that you need to go back and rewatch some games from last year vs year 1 (or this year in STL). 

 

 

Oh, BTW, finishing 2nd in voting for the lady bang means nothing in regards to his performance on the ice. That is awarded to the guy who takes the least penalties (“most gentlemanly conduct”). 

 

And being 11th in Selke voting isn’t very impressive either. You’re not even considered a finalist for the Selke unless you finish top 3 in voting. 

 

Now, this year in STL, finishing top 3 for the Selke (and likely winning it) is impressive. The highest he ever was in voting during his time in buffalo was 11th.

 

 

 

4 hours ago, K-9 said:

Yep. It was a carefully orchestrated exit. 

Agreed. 

 

You don’t say that stuff to the media if you really want to stay. You would say it behind closed doors to teammates, coaches and the GM. If he really wanted to make a differences here, that’s how he would have done it IMO. There is absolutely no reason to air that out in the media. 

 

And he had days to think about what he would say. It wasn’t some heat of the moment thing. It was calculated. 

 

 

Edited by BillsFan4

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You want entertaining sports talk? Listen to the pouting on Boston sports radio today. :lol:  Imagine three year olds denied candy.

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17 minutes ago, BillsFan4 said:

 

 

i wasn’t taking about just point totals. As Lurker said, he played over 200 minutes more than any other forward. He should put up points with that many minutes and that much opportunity (at 5v5 and on the PP). 

 

 

 

I was talking about his effort on the ice on a shift by shift basis. I am talking about him dogging it on the backcheck. I am talking about him standing there doing nothing in the d zone while his man stands open in front of the net. I am talking about him no longer staying after practice like he did in his first season(s) here. I am talking about him being much less driven than he was in year 1 here, and kind of checked out mentally. 

 

Theres a lot more to hockey than just point totals. 

 

 

ROR even basically implied that he wasn’t giving his full effort in his year end comments.  

 

 

 

If you think the ROR buffalo had last year is the same ROR we had year 1, or that STL had this year, then I really don’t know what to say, except that you need to go back and rewatch some games from last year vs year 1 (or this year in STL). 

 

 

 

Agreed. 

 

You don’t say that stuff to the media if you really want to stay. You would say it behind closed doors to teammates, coaches and the GM. If he really wanted to make a differences here, that’s how he would have done it IMO. There is absolutely no reason to air that out in the media. 

 

And he had days to think about what he would say. It wasn’t some heat of the moment thing. It was calculated. 

 

 

If you look at what was being offered by Montreal and St. Louis, the two teams most interested in acquiring a second line center from the market, the offerings were not very impressive considering the caliber of player being shopped. No organization is going to take on a player with a big contract without researching the player and the situation involving the player. Tapes don't lie. It was well known before the local fans were aware that this player was being shopped. So his play was being highly scrutinized by the potential suitors. If ROR was playing at his usual level of play he would have garnered richer offers. That wasn't the case here. In fact, St. Louis made it clear that their top two or three prospects were untouchable in any deal. That's why Tage was offered and not the more highly ranked prospects in their system. So what does that tell you? They weren't going to give up a high end prospect for a player who wasn't playing up his usual standard. They weren't willing to take on that risk. 

 

Although it is apparent that as it stands the Sabres got pummeled in this deal that doesn't mean that the calculations should be stopped. If Tage becomes a productive third line player and productive goal scorer and the lower first round pick we got in the trade is parlayed in a deal for a second line player than this deal in the longer term won't look so imbalanced. 

 

Anyone who has been in the workforce for a long time recognizes that there are circumstances where a talent in the group has to be dispatched in order to make the rest of the unit function as a better group. It's not an easy decision for the boss to make but it is a necessary decision that needs to be made. 

12 minutes ago, PromoTheRobot said:

You want entertaining sports talk? Listen to the pouting on Boston sports radio today. :lol:  Imagine three year olds denied candy.

Don't get carried away and do the jig at their misery. You might hurt your knee and set back your rehab. :)

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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, K-9 said:

 

Seriously though, if Pegs had insisted on paying that $7.5m bonus BEFORE the trade, it probably would have opened up additional trade opportunities with other teams. 

 

 

That is my only question on how the whole trade went down. As I have said in here 1000X, revisionist history for the vast majority of folks who say they never wanted ROR traded or that the trade was a mistake...i would love people to show there  posts on that from July or November...I know my take in November was Sabres in first, Blues in last, ROR was the common denominaterr. Turned out I was dead wrong..but 90% of people had the same thought.

 

here is the start of the thread..i was happy he was traderd!!! Shocking

 

 

Anyway, back to my original point. This is maybe the first time I am wondering if Terry got heavily involved in player transactions. I wonder if he told JBOTTS..if you moving him, it has to be before I pay that $7.5M...if after July 1, he is staying! And that really restricted what could come back in a trade.

Edited by plenzmd1

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16 minutes ago, plenzmd1 said:

That is my only question on how the whole trade went down. As I have said in here 1000X, revisionist history for the vast majority of folks who say they never wanted ROR traded or that the trade was a mistake...i would love people to show there  posts on that from July or November...I know my take in November was Sabres in first, Blues in last, ROR was the common denominaterr. Turned out I was dead wrong..but 90% of people had the same thought.

 

Anyway, back to my original point. This is maybe the first time I am wondering if Terry got heavily involved in player transactions. I wonder if he told JBOTTS..if you moving him, it has to be before I pay that $7.5M...if after July 1, he is staying! And that really restricted what could come back in a trade.

That is certainly a plausible scenario regarding Pegs.

 

Something else you said 1000x is that a coaching change in mid-stream can dramatically turn the fortunes of a team. Berube and the Blues certainly proved that!

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1 hour ago, JohnC said:

Who?

 

Leeman got beat up real bad

 

 

 

 

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13 minutes ago, plenzmd1 said:

That is my only question on how the whole trade went down. As I have said in here 1000X, revisionist history for the vast majority of folks who say they never wanted ROR traded or that the trade was a mistake...i would love people to show there  posts on that from July or November...I know my take in November was Sabres in first, Blues in last, ROR was the common denominaterr. Turned out I was dead wrong..but 90% of people had the same thought.

 

Anyway, back to my original point. This is maybe the first time I am wondering if Terry got heavily in player transactions. I wonder if he told JBOTTS..if you moving him, it has to be before I pay that $7.5M...if after July 1, he is staying! And that really restricted what could come back in a trade.

We outsiders don't know if the bonus money consideration affected his value on the market. On the other hand what we do now know is that he was being shopped. A factor in diminishing his value was that he wasn't playing at the same level he was in his first year. And it probably wasn't a secret around the league that he wanted out and the organization also wanted him out. So the selling team didn't have the usual leverage that it would normally have dealing a talented player without such tarnishing issues. 

 

As it stands this is an imbalanced deal. That's life. Sometimes you are on the winning side of a deal and sometimes you are not. It's now up to the GM to make some smart deals this offseason that will close the gaping gap from this deal. 

2 minutes ago, row_33 said:

 

Leeman got beat up real bad

 

 

 

 

The old school can be tough and bloody in meting out discipline for inappropriate conduct. :ph34r:

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