Ol Dirty B Posted May 25, 2019 Share Posted May 25, 2019 (edited) 9 hours ago, JoeF said: This might be crazy, but I also think Darnold is on shaky ground this year too. If the Jets have a bad start, I could see Gase wanting to toss out Darnold for Tua...I think our Josh is on much more stable ground than Darnold or Rosen when it comes to prospects for longevity with his current team. I never really thought about it before Rosen but rookie QBs on their first contract are really a tradeable and cut losses commodity in the slotting era...You may not get back huge value -- but the only way you are trading them is if you have a very high draft pick for a replacement. From then, trading the existing guy like the Cards did with Rosen is just cutting your losses. I know he just successfully ran the gm out of town, but the ownership of that organization will pick Darnold over Gase. Gase will be fired at the end of the year if he pulls some crap like that. I can't see a guy with already a questionable ability to work with both players and executives, and having nothing to show for his head coaching experience getting that done in NY of all places. We may like Josh more, but almost all othera have liked Darnold more from pre-draft through their first season. Edited May 25, 2019 by Ol Dirty B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo716 Posted May 25, 2019 Share Posted May 25, 2019 4 hours ago, Bill from NYC said: I'm sorry, I really did think that you were trolling. Tua is VERY accurate and has a very good arm. Do you like "process" guys? Nick Saban invented the term and he LOVES this kid. Tua said that chose Alabama because he would get the most exposure and he wants to build his father (a minister) a church. I have actually seen him put his arm around Saban. NOBODY does that, and Saban talks about what a great kid he is. He sees the field like nobody else in the NCAA in terms of reading defenses and is really smart. He has a strong lower body and can run. Is he clutch? You tell me. He came into a championship game in the 2nd half as a true freshman, with his team down, and getting beat. He brought them back to a tie and the Bama kicker missed a chip shot FG for the win, forcing the game into OT. Georgia scored a FG. It was looking so, SO bad. And then this: Ok I like Bama but I’ve seen a good amount of guys put their arms around Saban and hug him lol Tua is a stud and I liked him back to HS but I wouldn’t use that as your benchmark lol talk about his high football IQ and ability to split the cover 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gobills1212 Posted May 25, 2019 Share Posted May 25, 2019 Grass is green, The sky is blue, tank for tua? Its up to you! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bronxbomber21 Posted May 25, 2019 Share Posted May 25, 2019 I can only see teams tanking for QB T. Lawrence out of Clemson. When is he coming out of school? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo Barbarian Posted May 25, 2019 Share Posted May 25, 2019 16 hours ago, Bill from NYC said: Does anyone believe that there are NFL Teams that want to tank this season for the top draft selection? I for one do. The Raiders would seem to fit this description. The will be moving to Vegas so there is little gain for them to win this year. They got rid of Amari Cooper, and now they have Peterman lol! I can see them (and btw the Dolphins too) actually throwing in the towel to draft Tua in 2020. Why not add a huge name to draw bigger fan interest and ticket sales? This thread isn't completely about Tua mind you. He could (God forbid) have a bad year or get hurt. I mean it is possible but even at that, the 2020 draft looks to be amazing. I am mainly just curious as to how many of you think that a team really would intentionally tank to get a better draft position. probably waiting for Trevor Lawrence. 16 hours ago, GunnerBill said: I am not convinced yet on Tua. As for teams tanking.. Miami and Cincy are top of my list. I actually think Oakland will be improved. Not good yet, but better. Some poster on here said during the Alabama championship that we should tank for Tua, LOL , for two whole years , idiot . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted May 25, 2019 Share Posted May 25, 2019 12 hours ago, TigerJ said: Anything is possible, Joe. I know Arizona's situation was unique in that they just signed a new coach who is committed to an offensive system that to this point has not existed in the NFL in it's pure form. Andy Reid incorporated some elements because Pat Mahomes is is QB, but Kingsbury wanted the best QB he could get for his system, and Rosen was not it. I don't know who is the Jets' OC but I think Gase is philosophically in the West Coast family. At this point there is no reason to think Darnold won't be able to handle a Gase offense, but if for some reason Darnold is just awful or Gase is arrogant enough to lust after his own QB despite Darnold proving to be a solid starter in 2019, he could decide to cut bait and trade him. I don't think it is the most likely future for the Jets, but I can't rule it out. If the Jets ditch Darnold to keep Adam Gase they deserve everything they get. Darnold is going to be a good one and Gase is a clown. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted May 25, 2019 Share Posted May 25, 2019 Just on Tua - I agree with the comments about his receiving talent but what I really think makes him a hard e v a l is the quality protection. Most of last season he was standing back there in clean pockets and demonstrating his arm and his accuracy. But in those playoff games against better competition (and I do take Bill's point about injury) but I thought when pressure started to get home - especially against Clemson - he got a little rattled, his usually immaculate footwork fell apart and his timing was suddenly off and as a result the ball placement suffered). None of which is particularly unusual for a young kid who is suddenly under siege back there but as an evaluator you want to see how he grows and learns the next time he is in that scenario - it is part of maturing as a Quarterback. The problem is you might have to wait until the playoffs again next year to see it. I like Tua. I think the kid can play. But I am not totally sold on him as a top 10 of the 1st type QB yet.... the thing is I don't know when I will get to see what I want to see that will convince me because his team is so good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albany,n.y. Posted May 25, 2019 Share Posted May 25, 2019 10 hours ago, mannc said: The most obvious NFL tank job I can remember was the Bills last game of the 2016 season, when they fired Rex, started EJ, and lost to the hapless Jets. It worked like a charm. But you’re right; NFL teams don’t tank an entire season. Not fair to guys who are putting their bodies on the line every Sunday. That was more a case of not playing Tyrod Taylor because he had a clause that guaranteed his next season's salary if he got injured at a time when the team wasn't sure if they were going to keep him for 2017. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mannc Posted May 25, 2019 Share Posted May 25, 2019 2 hours ago, Albany,n.y. said: That was more a case of not playing Tyrod Taylor because he had a clause that guaranteed his next season's salary if he got injured at a time when the team wasn't sure if they were going to keep him for 2017. It was both. And it put them in position to draft not one, but two, franchise QBs.? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TPS Posted May 25, 2019 Share Posted May 25, 2019 On 5/24/2019 at 9:48 AM, Bill from NYC said: Does anyone believe that there are NFL Teams that want to tank this season for the top draft selection? I for one do. The Raiders would seem to fit this description. The will be moving to Vegas so there is little gain for them to win this year. They got rid of Amari Cooper, and now they have Peterman lol! I can see them (and btw the Dolphins too) actually throwing in the towel to draft Tua in 2020. Why not add a huge name to draw bigger fan interest and ticket sales? This thread isn't completely about Tua mind you. He could (God forbid) have a bad year or get hurt. I mean it is possible but even at that, the 2020 draft looks to be amazing. I am mainly just curious as to how many of you think that a team really would intentionally tank to get a better draft position. Tua would be a good match for the “las Vegas” Raiders. There are a lot of islanders that live in Vegas, having left because they can’t afford to live in Hawaii. You’d get plane loads flying in for the home games too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Brown Posted May 26, 2019 Share Posted May 26, 2019 The reason it's hard to tank is that players care more about money than the future of the franchise as they should considering it's just a job. They'll play their absolute best to obtain job security, future contracts, meeting contract incentives, etc... GM's also have to at least make it look like they are trying to field a winning team to keep the fan base engaged and sell tickets. I'd argue the Raiders were trying to tank last year in getting rid of Mack and Cooper yet they still couldn't finish with the worst record. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H2o Posted May 26, 2019 Share Posted May 26, 2019 On 5/24/2019 at 10:56 AM, mannc said: Very much agree. He’s played poorly in the few games in which Alabama was not able to completely out-match its opponent. I’m not even convinced Tua’s a first-rounder. Not true. Watch the 2nd half of the 2018 title game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mannc Posted May 26, 2019 Share Posted May 26, 2019 40 minutes ago, H2o said: Not true. Watch the 2nd half of the 2018 title game. Garbage time Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H2o Posted May 26, 2019 Share Posted May 26, 2019 8 hours ago, mannc said: Garbage time Uhhhhhhh, he brought his team back to win. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atlbillsfan1975 Posted May 26, 2019 Share Posted May 26, 2019 (edited) I don’t think teams ‘tank’. I do think new coaches come in and learn and evaluate. I think we are going to begin to see a pattern with new coaches being hired and moving on from aging QB’s. Not sure about this next year, Cincy would make the most sense. New coach, wants his guy at QB. Dalton’s days are numbered, AJ isn’t getting any younger. As for the 2021 draft I can see Carolina firing Ole River Boat Ron after this season and the new coach giving Cam a season before moving on for Lawrence. Cam had surgery in the offseason and hasn’t had a great season the last few years. Take away the Super Bowl year and he is slightly above average QB who makes some spectacular plays occasionally. He has another mediocre year followed by a bad year Carolina will gladly move on. Tua is good. He had two bad games but he was also hurt, and those were good defenses he was playing against. This year will really show what Tua is. UGA and Clemson played against Tua in 2017. They had first hand knowledge of what he does and then a total years worth of tape on him. Pretty mush everyone Tua plays this year will be able to say the same thing. I will reserve judgement till after the college year is complete. Edited May 26, 2019 by atlbillsfan1975 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mannc Posted May 26, 2019 Share Posted May 26, 2019 4 hours ago, H2o said: Uhhhhhhh, he brought his team back to win. Sorry, thought you were referring to this year’s Clemson game... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldTimeAFLGuy Posted May 26, 2019 Share Posted May 26, 2019 On 5/24/2019 at 5:33 PM, HOUSE said: Whom in the 2020 draft is worth tanking for? NOBODY ...leave it to the Jets.....seeing Gase in action is well worth the price of admission....think he could orchestrate "tankology" without much effort..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
formerlyofCtown Posted May 27, 2019 Share Posted May 27, 2019 (edited) On 5/24/2019 at 9:48 AM, Bill from NYC said: Does anyone believe that there are NFL Teams that want to tank this season for the top draft selection? I for one do. The Raiders would seem to fit this description. The will be moving to Vegas so there is little gain for them to win this year. They got rid of Amari Cooper, and now they have Peterman lol! I can see them (and btw the Dolphins too) actually throwing in the towel to draft Tua in 2020. Why not add a huge name to draw bigger fan interest and ticket sales? This thread isn't completely about Tua mind you. He could (God forbid) have a bad year or get hurt. I mean it is possible but even at that, the 2020 draft looks to be amazing. I am mainly just curious as to how many of you think that a team really would intentionally tank to get a better draft position. Yes that is why the Raiders added all that talent. It was so they could tank.? Edited May 27, 2019 by formerlyofCtown Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4merper4mer Posted May 27, 2019 Share Posted May 27, 2019 On May 24, 2019 at 4:27 PM, Doc Brown said: My guess is there's going to be a Tua/Herbert/Fromm debate next year like there were with the four QB's in 2018. My guess is the Raiders, Bengals, Bucs, and Dolphins will all be potential suitors. Maybe the Chargers, Saints, or Patriots (god help us) trade up. I'm still laughing at the Giants btw. The WR class next year has the potential to be as highly touted as the '14 class so if we don't have a good year we'll be able to get Allen a true #1 WR next draft. It probably won't cost the Pats much to trade up from 6. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ethan in Cleveland Posted May 28, 2019 Share Posted May 28, 2019 On 5/24/2019 at 7:13 AM, GunnerBill said: If Josh sucks this year I am for full tank in 2020 to be in position for Lawrence. I think that kid would be in the top half of the league for QBs right now. Edit: I should say I am not expecting Josh to suck. I think he will take a step forward. Would you fire Beane and McD if Josh sucks? Would you give them another draft to get a QB? On 5/24/2019 at 5:15 PM, Dave Allen said: So signing Peterman to compete for the third QB spot behind Carr and Glennon is a sign the Raiders are planning to tank? Wow. No but letting him start against the Ravens was Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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