Is There Any Position That The Bills Got Worse In The Offseason?

[Jasovon]

Defensive Tackle is slightly worse at this point, Oliver has potential but that's worse than the sure thing we had in Kyle. Other than that, better across the board.

[fansince88]

12 hours ago, mjt328 said:

 

Remember that we are talking about 2018.  Not what a player has been throughout his entire career.

 

Charles Clay was terrible last year.  Absolutely no separation, hands of stone and nothing after the catch.

I don't think we missed anything when he was out of the lineup and Jason Croom was playing.  So honestly, it could be argued that Lee Smith is an upgrade over last year's Clay.  He is a better blocker, and his pass catching couldn't be worse than what Clay offered in 2018. 

 

In the same way, Kyle Williams also took a step back in 2018.  At least in the pass rushing department, you just didn't see the consistent burst off the line.  He wasn't a liability.  But he wasn't his normal Pro-Bowl self either.  I don't think it's unrealistic for Ed Oliver to give us similar results as a rookie.

 

 

I agree with your whole post. That said the Bold part I have been thinking but haven't said as I absolutely loved what Kyle brought to the team. Although he was a gamer and brought everything he could every week he did slow a bit. He retired at just the right time. 

[Pbomb]

13 hours ago, Utah John said:

The DBs were excellent last year and they're not really old but they're not youngsters either.  If anything someone back there might lose a step.  Maybe this won't happen and this is just looking for problems where there aren't really any.

White is entering third year, Wallace and Johnson their second. They aren’t considered youngsters? Hyde and poyer are 28, gaines 27, the other Johnson 26. That’s more the age players enter their prime not lose a step 

Edited May 24, 2019 by Pbomb

[Pbomb]

12 hours ago, TPS said:

Debatable. Croom was the leading receiver at the TE position.  Clay didn't even crack 200 yards, and Logan Thomas was the #3.  If Kroft is healthy, then I would argue it will be a better group. Kroft, Smith, Croom, and Knox.  

I agree, I’ll take the tes we have now over the 3 we had last year. Our only decent te from last year is still here. Clay and Thomas were both below average to terrible last year. Kroft can atleast match that, lee smith gives us a good blocking te and Knox gives us some potential and a possible answer to the te problem 

[formerlyofCtown]

11 hours ago, I am the egg man said:

 

Not like that, like this:

 

 

Is that our RB group??

[Pbomb]

13 hours ago, EmotionallyUnstable said:

I'm not sure we got any better at the RB position. If you had to choose, this would be my pick. 

You don’t think gore, yeldon, and singletary is an upgrade over Ivory?

[Pbomb]

8 hours ago, Chill said:

 

 

I did watch him play. The Coaches and I agree that Clay was the best TE on the team last year. How did we improve that position? He still is better than what we have, just not worth the price. 

Not sure if he was our best te last year, I thought croom played better when out there and was more of a threat. Didn’t the coaches make clay a healthy scratch last year, maybe they didn’t think he was the best either

[Pbomb]

5 hours ago, TaskersGhost said:

 

I'm not sure I see an upgrade at DT.  Lotulolei as a depth player is no loss and was a horrible signing in hindsight, but losing Kyle will be big and replacing him with Phillips a/o an unproven Oliver isn't a given.  Lotulolei didn't get the job done and he's an expensive backup.  

 

Also not sure that the RB situation is improved.  A small-school diminutive RB that put up gawdy numbers against competition that he won't see in the NFL, ala Zay Jones, coupled with Shady who didn't play well last season and the oldest RB in the league also is no given.  

 

WRs are an upgrade but no one's going to confuse the group with being above-average, at least no objective person.  Among the entire WR collective they've posted a single 1,000 yard season, barely.  None of our WRs are prolific TD scorers or even close.  Again, not sure how much of an upgrade that is.  

 

The OL was upgraded but by how much is the question.  Again, no objective person is going to mistake that OL for one that's much more than marginally above average.  Everyone talks about Nsecke like he's great, but he came from a horrible offense and in five seasons has only 16 starts, only 5 of which were last season.  We'll likely have four new OL-men that have never played together including one rookie and a Center known for injuries the past two seasons with nothing of note behind him on the roster.  I think it would have been much wiser to have drafted Risner instead of Ford, who graded better in pass protection, comparably at minimum, but more importantly has experience playing C.  What, Bodine if Morse goes down?  That's hardly encouraging.  

 

At TE with Kroft having sustained a serious injury we're reliant upon a rookie that has never scored a TD.  Upgrade?  

 

Lorax, who's starting, is a year older and well beyond his prime at 36.  His position alone is not an upgrade as a result.  

 

Also, one has to ask, since Beane/McD are just now getting around to rebuilding the OL, why haven't questions arisen as to why that has taken three seasons to address even if it is better, which according to PFF's ratings of the players is only marginally better and primarily only in run blocking.  In the prior two drafts they've only drafted two OL-men, Teller late in round 5, who appears to be going nowhere already, and Dawkins late in round 2.  

 

In order for the current roster to be an upgrade, backups like Nsecke have to play above-average as a starter when he's only served as a backup for five seasons to date;  

aged players like Gore and Lorax have to not show continued signs of age; 

Shady has to prove that last year was not age-related as he enters his post-prime;  

Singletary, who played against second-rate competition in college, will have to play above-average in the NFL when against the only power-5 competition he faced in college he had 44 carries for 162 yards for a 3.7 ypc avg. and 2 TDs in four games, and to do so will have to overcome his diminutive status;  (watching his video, I don't see NFL speed, when he looks fast it's only against players that have little to no chance of ever playing in the NFL.  His best game was Oklahoma this season which had a very mediocre rushing D and sent no one to the NFL from their front-7.)  He was also a completely different player when playing teams that featured OL-men that got drafted.  Prolific vs. lackluster.  Which will be the case in the NFL? 

Knox will have to start scoring TDs, something he hasn't done; 

Ford will have to play well immediately.  Even then, Dawkins & Nsecke at the Ts?  Upgrade?  Maybe, but if so not by much.  

Phillips and/or Oliver will have to make up for the loss of Kyle, not sure I see that happening;  

and lastly, Allen will have to put up at least average NFL passing numbers including at least a 2-1 TD/INT ratio, a 90+ rating up from 67, and limit total TOs.  

 

I mean it's fun to think about this time of year but it still has to come together.  

 

Things I wouldn't bet on:  

 

Morse making it thru an entire season, meaning that as of now Bodine will be playing some.  He's missed 14 of 32 games the past two seasons.  That alone could derail any OL progress.  

Oliver (small school), Ford, Singletary (small school), and Knox all playing well.  I'd be content if two of those players turned out to be above-average.  

Allen making the enormous leap from bottom-dwelling as a passer to above-average given his significant issues with reading Ds and checking down along with other mental issues.  Tough if not impossible stuff to coach.  

Offensive linemen that have typically played like average or slightly better than average on teams with poor offenses doing much more than that here, particularly together.  As they say, doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results, ... Simply because they've changed uniforms doesn't change them as players contrary to popular opinions otherwise.  

So basically you have a negative outlook on every aspect and position of the bills

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

4 hours ago, Freddie's Dead said:

 

I'm not sold that any of those guys are #1's let alone #2 WR's.  Bunch of JAGs until I see it on the field.

 

https://buffalonews.com/2019/05/24/bn-blitz-newsletter-zay-jones-not-focused-on-being-labeled-no-1-receiver/

 

Third-year man Zay Jones is now the longest-tenured receiver on the team, but he said this week that he's not caught up in what label is applied to him.

 

“No. 1 receiver is a real thing. Obviously, I'd be lying to you if people haven't thought about that," Jones said. "But I think what's unique about this group is no one is trying to take that title and be like, 'OK, I'm this. Y'all listen to me.' It hasn't been that way. I feel like this group has played with a great chemistry. … As far as, 'Is Cole (Beasley) the No. 1? Is John (Brown) the No. 1?’ You guys, y'all experts, y'all can make that statement. As far as what I'm going to do, it’s just focus on being the best Zay I can possibly be, because on Sundays I want to produce and do the best I can for this team.”

 

That's a good mindset for Jones to have. Bills GM Brandon Beane has said he doesn't subscribe to the notion of a true No. 1 receiver. Instead, they'll need a group of quality receivers with good chemistry that can work together to become greater than the sum of its parts.

[Brianmoorman4jesus]

We certainly don’t know that we got better at TE yet. There are a lot of new faces so hopefully a few of them can play. If we are worse then we already were st TE then it will have to be a disaster.

[North Buffalo]

14 hours ago, OldTimeAFLGuy said:

...VERY concerned nobody has earned the "TBD Bust" moniker this late in.......are we witnessing "membership lethargy"?.....something ain't passin' the "smell test" here....

Do the Bills need more talent at DE, and WR... the jury is out on TE and LB... sure... but are they probably better than last year... O line will be a work in progress but appears the talent is there.

[Rocket94]

On paper, this new OL group should be much better than last year...it has to be once they work together and get a formula. I hope so.

Edited May 24, 2019 by Rocket94

[Cripple Creek]

16 hours ago, r00tabaga said:

 

DAnderson retiring hurts a little too.

Compared to last offseason? AJ McMilf, Nathan Petersburg and a rookie Josh Allen.

[BuffaloBill]

4 hours ago, Jasovon said:

Defensive Tackle is slightly worse at this point, Oliver has potential but that's worse than the sure thing we had in Kyle. Other than that, better across the board.

 

 

I agree mostly with what you say here because Oliver has to prove himself.  However, Kyle’s play may have been slipping and throughout his career Kyle has been part of defenses that have consistently struggled against the run.  There are scheme issues and no one player is to blame but if Oliver does not live up to his potential and hype or if his somewhat smaller size for the position works against him then the Bills could be in trouble against teams that run up the middle, again.

[mjt328]

3 hours ago, fansince88 said:

I agree with your whole post. That said the Bold part I have been thinking but haven't said as I absolutely loved what Kyle brought to the team. Although he was a gamer and brought everything he could every week he did slow a bit. He retired at just the right time. 

 

At this point, the biggest thing we are going to miss from Kyle Williams is his leadership.

With a rotation of Ed Oliver, Star Lotulelei, Jordan Phillips and Harrison Phillips, I just don't see a big drop-off coming with on-field production.  Last year, we also had Shaq Lawson sliding inside on passing downs.

 

With Lorenzo Alexander getting near retirement as well, the Bills could really use some defensive players to step up as leaders.  Jerry Hughes is the next oldest, but he's never come across as that kind of guy. 

 

[TigerJ]

I think Vegas must have consulted with Tasker's Ghost in setting the over/under for the Bills this year.

[MJS]

17 hours ago, r00tabaga said:

TE

OLB

DAnderson retiring hurts a little too.

How is OLB worse? Same cast of characters plus they added a draft pick. Just because Lorenzo is a year older?

[Ronin]

4 hours ago, Pbomb said:

So basically you have a negative outlook on every aspect and position of the bills

 

Do you think that's a wise assumption?  

 

Do you see my take on the secondary in there?  How about Edmunds who I've stated elsewhere I expect to become one of the top MLBs in the league?  

 

Otherwise, what, specifically do you disagree with?  You think that Gore will play better at 37 than he has in the past?  Or that Lotulolei will turn into some sort of stud DT this season?  How 'bout Lorax, you apparently think he'll improve at 36, or do you agree with me?  Shady at 31?  

 

Apparently you think that with Kroft out that Knox is an instant upgrade over last season too then?   Is that a realistic take?  Or are you expecting blocking TE Lee Smith, Croom, who was with us last season and did nothing but warrant criticism from everyone, or 7th-round pick Sweeney, who by the way has caught 10 more TD passes than Knox, to be the upgrade there?  

 

Just curiuos.  

 

Not much to discuss otherwise.  So what's your point then?  

[ColoradoBills]

16 hours ago, twist_to_open said:

We did not address our lack of depth at long snapper.

 

Lee Smith baby!  Beane is like a protractor, he's got all the angles covered. 

 

As for the thread subject, I can't see any area that got worse.

TE has been discussed to death and just having Clay gone is a plus in my mind.

 

I really hope that Special Teams can make a big improvement but we'll have to wait and see on that.

 

 

 

[chris heff]

I’m not sure if there are positions where they got worse, but there are some that are “wait and see”. All I can think of as to Clay is him not making an effort on what would have been a game winning touchdown, even I know that when your QB is scrambling receivers are supposed to come back to him. Not sure they are worse at TE, we shall see. So correct me if I’m wrong and I’m sure you will, but isn’t Lotulelei’s job unglamorous? Isn’t he supposed to keep blockers occupied? Meaning keep guys off Edmunds. Kyle Williams will be missed for a lot of reasons, but we don’t know what Ed Oliver brings, but it’s not like the position wasn’t addressed.

 

As to the OL, if all they did was add Morse they would have to be better, but that isn’t all they did. RB? Was McCoy’s slide a result of age or bad OL? Is Gore better than Ivory? What does Yeldon bring? Can Singletary play against this level of competition? We shall see, but sure feels better than last year. WR? It could not possibly be worse than last year. I could keep going, but you get my drift.

Edited May 24, 2019 by chris heff