K-9 Posted June 30, 2019 Share Posted June 30, 2019 Can't believe Kessel threw his GM under the bus like that. The ball on that guy! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnC Posted June 30, 2019 Share Posted June 30, 2019 2 hours ago, Cripple Creek said: If he is one of the hardest working players in the entire NHL then wouldn't that other level be on display more often than not? You're statements don't seem to jive to me. Either he's under performed and needs a change of scenery or he's a really hard worker who is what you see he is. The questions you bring up regarding Risto are at the core of the trade or not trade issue. It was reported that all the coaching candidates were asked what would they do to enhance his play. The issue that the organization has to wrestle with is whether he can be a more cerebral player to enhance his physical game. Is Krueger the HC who can get that more focused play out of him? I don't know? Another question is whether he is another Sabre player like ROR who has gotten tired of the losing and wants a fresh start somewhere else? I'm sure that the organization with their communications with him have a better grasp on that issue than we do. Then there is the next obvious question of what can you get for him if traded? I suspect that the GM is not going to make another type of ROR deal where he got less than value. This is a tough issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Who Posted June 30, 2019 Share Posted June 30, 2019 Fella who posts over at the Sabres hockeybuzz site who sometimes gets a thing or two right is saying there might be a trade with Florida. He's hearing McCabe, E-rod, and a pick for Hoffman. Grain of salt and all that. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shrader Posted June 30, 2019 Share Posted June 30, 2019 (edited) 2 hours ago, K-9 said: Can't believe Kessel threw his GM under the bus like that. The ball on that guy! I can’t believe someone beat me to a Phil Kessel joke! Edited June 30, 2019 by shrader 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnC Posted June 30, 2019 Share Posted June 30, 2019 18 minutes ago, Dr. Who said: Fella who posts over at the Sabres hockeybuzz site who sometimes gets a thing or two right is saying there might be a trade with Florida. He's hearing McCabe, E-rod, and a pick for Hoffman. Grain of salt and all that. If Panerin signs with Florida it is likely that Hoffman gets dealt. Hoffman can score goals but his +/-- is not too good. Last season, he had 36 goals, 34 assists and a -24 plus/minus. This deal still makes sense because the GM is determined to put together a decent second line to take some of the scoring pressure off of the first line. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Who Posted June 30, 2019 Share Posted June 30, 2019 50 minutes ago, JohnC said: If Panerin signs with Florida it is likely that Hoffman gets dealt. Hoffman can score goals but his +/-- is not too good. Last season, he had 36 goals, 34 assists and a -24 plus/minus. This deal still makes sense because the GM is determined to put together a decent second line to take some of the scoring pressure off of the first line. If McCabe is dealt, does this mean likelihood is Risto stays? Whether he wants to stay or not, I'm not dealing unless the return is big. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PromoTheRobot Posted June 30, 2019 Share Posted June 30, 2019 On 6/28/2019 at 9:44 PM, JohnC said: Not that long ago the Sabres and the Billls were franchises that were fiscally tightly operated. The Pegulas have certainly made mistakes as new owners with their two franchises. They have learned from their mistakes. It is refreshing to have owners operate their small market team in a manner that allows them to compete with the bigger markets. I appreciate them and don't take them for granted. Thank you Mr. and Mrs P. Ay-fricken-men! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
njbuff Posted June 30, 2019 Share Posted June 30, 2019 Is Panarin going to get his $12 million asking price? If he does, it will throw the entire market into chaos and be the catalyst for a possible work stoppage (AGAIN) in short order. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFan4 Posted June 30, 2019 Author Share Posted June 30, 2019 (edited) 6 hours ago, Cripple Creek said: If he is one of the hardest working players in the entire NHL then wouldn't that other level be on display more often than not? You're statements don't seem to jive to me. Either he's under performed and needs a change of scenery or he's a really hard worker who is what you see he is. I was talking about his workout/training regime (risto’s offseason workout regime is legendary) and his conditioning level, as well as always working hard when he is on the ice. He does not take shifts off, ever. And he’s always staying late in the gym to train. He has has to be one of the best conditioned players in the NHL in order to handle the minutes he plays (he’s been top 5 in minutes in the entire nhl on a few occasions). He makes dumb mental mistakes and tries to overcompensate for crappy d partners at times, but that has nothing to do with his effort level. I have never once questioned Ristolainen’s effort level on or off the ice. I don’t know if all of his mental errors is something that can be fixed at this point or not (he is entering year 7), but I’d like to see if it can. I feel that we finally have a coach who’s proven he can install a very good defensive structure and we finally have some other defenseman that can help ease Risto’s burden. Maybe if he’s not trying to carry the entire entire load on D himself, and not so mentally exhausted from playing 25+ minutes a night, it will help him cut down on the mental errors. We’ve seen him (on more than one occasion now) start out the year on fire and then fall off as the year wears on and he gets worn out (from the over-usage). We also saw what other defenseman looked like when forced into Ristolainen's role (and for just a short time, too. Not all season long like a Risto) when he was out injured at the end of the season. Like Montour for example, he was making a lot of the same mistakes Risto does and looked even worse in that role than Risto does. But Ristolainen has to buy-in to the system and coaching, too. That has reportedly been an issue in years past. Paul Hamilton (grain of salt...) loves to say that Risto is one of the most un-coachable Sabres. Edited June 30, 2019 by BillsFan4 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnC Posted June 30, 2019 Share Posted June 30, 2019 2 hours ago, Dr. Who said: If McCabe is dealt, does this mean likelihood is Risto stays? Whether he wants to stay or not, I'm not dealing unless the return is big. I'm not sure if a McCabe deal is made that it will have an effect on whether Risto stays or not. A reasonable replacement can be found from the market for an acceptable price. In my view a Risto deal is all about what you get back. The ROR trade heist will not be repeated because the GM employment status can't afford too many of those glaring setbacks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnC Posted June 30, 2019 Share Posted June 30, 2019 57 minutes ago, BillsFan4 said: I was talking about his workout/training regime (risto’s offseason workout regime is legendary) and his conditioning level, as well as always working hard when he is on the ice. He does not take shifts off, ever. And he’s always staying late in the gym to train. He has has to be one of the best conditioned players in the NHL in order to handle the minutes he plays (he’s been top 5 in minutes in the entire nhl on a few occasions). He makes dumb mental mistakes and tries to overcompensate for crappy d partners at times, but that has nothing to do with his effort level. I have never once questioned Ristolainen’s effort level on or off the ice. I don’t know if all of his mental errors is something that can be fixed at this point or not (he is entering year 7), but I’d like to see if it can. I feel that we finally have a coach who’s proven he can install a very good defensive structure and we finally have some other defenseman that can help ease Risto’s burden. Maybe if he’s not trying to carry the entire entire load on D himself, and not so mentally exhausted from playing 25+ minutes a night, it will help him cut down on the mental errors. We’ve seen him (on more than one occasion now) start out the year on fire and then fall off as the year wears on and he gets worn out (from the over-usage). We also saw what other defenseman looked like when forced into Ristolainen's role (and for just a short time, too. Not all season long like a Risto) when he was out injured at the end of the season. Like Montour for example, he was making a lot of the same mistakes Risto does and looked even worse in that role than Risto does. But Ristolainen has to buy-in to the system and coaching, too. That has reportedly been an issue in years past. Paul Hamilton (grain of salt...) loves to say that Risto is one of the most un-coachable Sabres. Two players that Hamilton has not been reluctant to show his disdain for were ROR and Risto. His primary criticism for Risto is his repeated mental lapses. It was his seemingly inability to learn from his mistakes that bothered him very much. And his primary criticism of ROR is that he got tired of the gap toothed player's robotic responses/nonresponses after the games. With ROR the rotund reporter allowed his personal feelings to spill over into his reporting. At least that is how it seems to me. On the Risto trade or no trade issue I publicly admit my indecisiveness on this issue. I just don't know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Brown Posted June 30, 2019 Share Posted June 30, 2019 4 hours ago, Dr. Who said: Fella who posts over at the Sabres hockeybuzz site who sometimes gets a thing or two right is saying there might be a trade with Florida. He's hearing McCabe, E-rod, and a pick for Hoffman. Grain of salt and all that. Not crazy about them dealing E-Rod for a one year rental who's unlikely to sign a long term deal here. Hoffman will be 31 and probably looking for a five plus year deal on what's likely his last contract. E-Rod gives you better long term value as a 3rd/4th liner with some offensive prowess who can still grow and is valuable on the penalty kill. Plus, you can sign him to a more cap friendly intermediate deal. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Who Posted June 30, 2019 Share Posted June 30, 2019 1 hour ago, Doc Brown said: Not crazy about them dealing E-Rod for a one year rental who's unlikely to sign a long term deal here. Hoffman will be 31 and probably looking for a five plus year deal on what's likely his last contract. E-Rod gives you better long term value as a 3rd/4th liner with some offensive prowess who can still grow and is valuable on the penalty kill. Plus, you can sign him to a more cap friendly intermediate deal. I tend to agree. Just reporting a rumor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cripple Creek Posted June 30, 2019 Share Posted June 30, 2019 5 hours ago, BillsFan4 said: I was talking about his workout/training regime (risto’s offseason workout regime is legendary) and his conditioning level, as well as always working hard when he is on the ice. He does not take shifts off, ever. And he’s always staying late in the gym to train. He has has to be one of the best conditioned players in the NHL in order to handle the minutes he plays (he’s been top 5 in minutes in the entire nhl on a few occasions). He makes dumb mental mistakes and tries to overcompensate for crappy d partners at times, but that has nothing to do with his effort level. I have never once questioned Ristolainen’s effort level on or off the ice. I don’t know if all of his mental errors is something that can be fixed at this point or not (he is entering year 7), but I’d like to see if it can. I feel that we finally have a coach who’s proven he can install a very good defensive structure and we finally have some other defenseman that can help ease Risto’s burden. Maybe if he’s not trying to carry the entire entire load on D himself, and not so mentally exhausted from playing 25+ minutes a night, it will help him cut down on the mental errors. We’ve seen him (on more than one occasion now) start out the year on fire and then fall off as the year wears on and he gets worn out (from the over-usage). We also saw what other defenseman looked like when forced into Ristolainen's role (and for just a short time, too. Not all season long like a Risto) when he was out injured at the end of the season. Like Montour for example, he was making a lot of the same mistakes Risto does and looked even worse in that role than Risto does. But Ristolainen has to buy-in to the system and coaching, too. That has reportedly been an issue in years past. Paul Hamilton (grain of salt...) loves to say that Risto is one of the most un-coachable Sabres. Then motivation, Krueger's ace in the hole, isn't going to help him any. Maybe a lesser role, as you suggest will help. I'm tired of watching good players go elsewhere, but, I fear he is what we fear he is. If he's dealt I won't shed any tears. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnC Posted June 30, 2019 Share Posted June 30, 2019 6 hours ago, njbuff said: Is Panarin going to get his $12 million asking price? If he does, it will throw the entire market into chaos and be the catalyst for a possible work stoppage (AGAIN) in short order. If the pay scale for elite players takes a quick jump and that higher level becomes the benchmark for those elite echelon of players then the teams will have to adjust with paying less to the lower level of players, or will result in playing more younger players on their first contract. It will also cause teams to keep fewer core and top shelf players.The formula for the cap is set as a ratio of the revenues. If a team is to overpay to entice a premium player then their roster or pay distribution will have to be altered for that team. The issue that will have to be dealt with when the new league/player contract comes up is the allowable length of the contracts. Those 8 year or longer contracts end up hamstringing the teams on the backside of the contracts. Maybe having teams be able to buy-out the contract on the back side of the contract can be negotiated where it benefits the teams and the players. The teams that will benefit when organizations pay crazy contracts for players are teams such as Buffalo who will be in a good position to select some of the good players jettisoned to make room for the star player. An example of that is if Florida signs Panarin for stupid money then a player such as Hoffman will have to be shipped out in order to make room for the rich signing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnC Posted July 1, 2019 Share Posted July 1, 2019 4 hours ago, Doc Brown said: Not crazy about them dealing E-Rod for a one year rental who's unlikely to sign a long term deal here. Hoffman will be 31 and probably looking for a five plus year deal on what's likely his last contract. E-Rod gives you better long term value as a 3rd/4th liner with some offensive prowess who can still grow and is valuable on the penalty kill. Plus, you can sign him to a more cap friendly intermediate deal. You make a good point that Hoffman could end up being a one year rental player for us. On the other hand being a one year rental might serve the Sabres needs better than signing him to an extended deal. If Hoffman can be part of a contributing second line (even if it is for one year) that will help us this season and allow some of the young players in the system more time to be ready when they make the jump to the NHL. I like E-Rod. As you stated he has value as a third or fourth line players. But those types of players are replaceable while getting a goal scoring second-line forward is much more difficult. The fans are getting fatigued. The owners want to see better results. And the players are getting frustrated with being stuck in the muck of mediocrity. Taking a talented scoring player on a short term for an immediate benefit is not an unreasonable approach to take. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Brown Posted July 1, 2019 Share Posted July 1, 2019 57 minutes ago, JohnC said: You make a good point that Hoffman could end up being a one year rental player for us. On the other hand being a one year rental might serve the Sabres needs better than signing him to an extended deal. If Hoffman can be part of a contributing second line (even if it is for one year) that will help us this season and allow some of the young players in the system more time to be ready when they make the jump to the NHL. I like E-Rod. As you stated he has value as a third or fourth line players. But those types of players are replaceable while getting a goal scoring second-line forward is much more difficult. The fans are getting fatigued. The owners want to see better results. And the players are getting frustrated with being stuck in the muck of mediocrity. Taking a talented scoring player on a short term for an immediate benefit is not an unreasonable approach to take. I see your point but if you start listening to the fans as a GM you become one. The goal should be winning the cup rather than just make the playoffs and this team is more than one season away. We're going to have to give long term deals eventually to Dahlin and Reinhart meaning we'll have four players signed long term making at least 8 million per year. I don't think we can afford a 5th for Hoffman. If the deal didn't include E-Rod I'd be fine with it, but he's undervalued by this fan base imo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted July 1, 2019 Share Posted July 1, 2019 (edited) 10 hours ago, njbuff said: Is Panarin going to get his $12 million asking price? If he does, it will throw the entire market into chaos and be the catalyst for a possible work stoppage (AGAIN) in short order. Hearing it could be 13 mill/year AAV. Cbus has to offer more to get him to stay because he wants big city/coastal. 3 team race with Cbus/Islanders/Panthers Edited July 1, 2019 by YoloinOhio Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnC Posted July 1, 2019 Share Posted July 1, 2019 9 hours ago, Doc Brown said: I see your point but if you start listening to the fans as a GM you become one. The goal should be winning the cup rather than just make the playoffs and this team is more than one season away. We're going to have to give long term deals eventually to Dahlin and Reinhart meaning we'll have four players signed long term making at least 8 million per year. I don't think we can afford a 5th for Hoffman. If the deal didn't include E-Rod I'd be fine with it, but he's undervalued by this fan base imo. It's unusual for a lower echelon nonplayoff team to make an immediate jump to being a cup contending team. It's most often done in stages. (The Las Vegas surprise is an all together different situation.) This team needs to become competitive sooner rather than later not only because the fans are starting to peel away but because the owners are starting to get restless. You don't think that the GM is aware that the owners have expectations that haven't been close to being met? There is another aspect about systemic losing that is fraught with danger. It is that it has a corrosive effect on the players. ROR wanted out because he got tired of the losing. It appears that Risto is struggling with that same malaise where he wants a fresh start somewhere else. You don't think that Jack as one of the best players in the league going to be dissatisfied watching other teams playing in the playoffs from his couch? I agree with you that in the not too distant future the organization will have to deal with grand contract expectations from Dahlin and Reinhart. That is why a short term deal with a player such as Hoffman would fit in very well with the cap puzzle that will have to be put together with those looming contracts. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebandit27 Posted July 1, 2019 Share Posted July 1, 2019 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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