Buffalo Sabres and NHL: 2019/20: Sabres season officially over. Draft lottery June 26th

[K-9]

7 minutes ago, JohnC said:

I can't speak to their lower first round pick but Cozens is doing well with 4 goals and 4 assists. I think he is going to be with the big club next year, and if not he will be there in two years. He is eventually going to be our second line center. 

https://www.rotowire.com/hockey/player.php?id=5965

In another year or two we are going to have a strong middle. I do like Mitts but I think that Cozens is eventually going to be our second line center with Mitts as our third center. The expectation is that Johansson will move back to the wing. 

Cozens actually has 8 goals, 6 assists in 10 games.

[JohnC]

The attached link is an article by Paul Hamilton for WGR based on an interview with the GM. The GM gives a lot of credit to the coach and a variety of other reasons why this year is different from last year. With respect to the often brought up issue of having so many defensemen the GM points out that it isn't a problem as much as it is an asset. 

 

https://wgr550.radio.com/articles/news/sabres-botterill-credits-krueger-team-success

[BillsFan4]

3 hours ago, JohnC said:

The current GM has invested in stocking the system with talent and allowing it to develop. The previous GM, Murray, was more inclined to deal talent for immediate help. Giving up a first round pick for Lehner, a goalie that the Senators were probably not going to keep, was foolish. Lehner had a short stint with the Sabres and the traded pick could have been a forward who would have been ready to play on the second line. The more patient approach is the most proven and sustainable approach for success. You have to be happy with the way Botterill has run the operation.  

 

Buffalo was the only team that offered a 1st for Lehner. 

 

Everyone knew they Had To trade a goalie. They had 3 starting caliber goalies, none of which were waiver exempt. 

 

Peter Chiarelli (a terrible GM who’s made some of the worst trades in recent NHL history) was shopping for a starting goaltender that offseason, and he later said that he was unwilling to give up a 1st for Lehner. His offer topped out at a 2nd round pick. 

 

The picks we traded away in that 2015 draft still piss me off to this day. That was the deepest NHL draft since the historic 2003 draft. If you look at the players available at picks #21, 25 and 31, the Sabres could have been stacked for the next decade if they hit on those picks (and I know it’s not guaranteed that we would have). 

[JohnC]

3 minutes ago, BillsFan4 said:

 

Buffalo was the only team that offered a 1st for Lehner. 

 

Everyone knew they Had To trade a goalie. They had 3 starting caliber goalies, none of which were waiver exempt. 

 

Peter Chiarelli (a terrible GM who’s made some of the worst trades in recent NHL history) was shopping for a starting goaltender that offseason, and he later said that he was unwilling to give up a 1st for Lehner. His offer topped out at a 2nd round pick. 

 

The picks we traded away in that 2015 draft still piss me off to this day. That was the deepest NHL draft since the historic 2003 draft. If you look at the players available at picks #21, 25 and 31, the Sabres could have been stacked for the next decade if they hit on those picks (and I know it’s not guaranteed that we would have). 

Murray had a goalie philosophy that favored size as one of the most important attributes for that particular position. So Lehner fit the profile of a goalie that he coveted. He also was a man in a hurry and wanted to make a big splash. He had a lot of chips at his disposal and ended up wastefully throwing them around with little thought and coherency. This franchise was in a pivotal position to take the next step forward. This blustery fool squandered his assets and instead of moving forward he set us back. At that time most hockey analysts believed that Buffalo was ahead of Toronto by a year or so in their development. Toronto made a lot of right decisions and we made a number of blunders. That stark reality was exhibited by their records. 

 

In my opinion Krueger and Botterill have meshing philosophies in how to build a successful organization. They don't look at a pro sport franchise as a collection of separate fragments. They envision it as a coherent organism where the pieces have to fit together. Both are analytical and thoughtful. Although they each have strong thoughts based on their backgrounds neither is an old school ideologue. They are open-minded and receptive to new ideas. I am deeply impressed with both of them. 

[bbb]

What is that asshat doing these days? 

[Doc]

45 minutes ago, JohnC said:

Murray had a goalie philosophy that favored size as one of the most important attributes for that particular position. So Lehner fit the profile of a goalie that he coveted. He also was a man in a hurry and wanted to make a big splash. He had a lot of chips at his disposal and ended up wastefully throwing them around with little thought and coherency. This franchise was in a pivotal position to take the next step forward. This blustery fool squandered his assets and instead of moving forward he set us back. At that time most hockey analysts believed that Buffalo was ahead of Toronto by a year or so in their development. Toronto made a lot of right decisions and we made a number of blunders. That stark reality was exhibited by their records. 

 

In my opinion Krueger and Botterill have meshing philosophies in how to build a successful organization. They don't look at a pro sport franchise as a collection of separate fragments. They envision it as a coherent organism where the pieces have to fit together. Both are analytical and thoughtful. Although they each have strong thoughts based on their backgrounds neither is an old school ideologue. They are open-minded and receptive to new ideas. I am deeply impressed with both of them. 

 

Can Murray be blamed for Lehner being drinking himself silly while in Buffalo?

[BillsFan4]

2 hours ago, bbb said:

What is that asshat doing these days? 

Playing Halo.  ?

 

2 hours ago, JohnC said:

Murray had a goalie philosophy that favored size as one of the most important attributes for that particular position. So Lehner fit the profile of a goalie that he coveted. He also was a man in a hurry and wanted to make a big splash. He had a lot of chips at his disposal and ended up wastefully throwing them around with little thought and coherency. This franchise was in a pivotal position to take the next step forward. This blustery fool squandered his assets and instead of moving forward he set us back. At that time most hockey analysts believed that Buffalo was ahead of Toronto by a year or so in their development. Toronto made a lot of right decisions and we made a number of blunders. That stark reality was exhibited by their records. 

 

In my opinion Krueger and Botterill have meshing philosophies in how to build a successful organization. They don't look at a pro sport franchise as a collection of separate fragments. They envision it as a coherent organism where the pieces have to fit together. Both are analytical and thoughtful. Although they each have strong thoughts based on their backgrounds neither is an old school ideologue. They are open-minded and receptive to new ideas. I am deeply impressed with both of them. 

 

I agree with everything you said. 

 

But Id like to add one thing to that “Buffalo was a year ahead of Toronto” narrative. 

 

When that was said, it was assumed that Toronto was going to do a complete tear down rebuild like Buffalo had done. But then they lucked into hiring Babcock and changed course. They went with a re-tool, keeping a number of key pieces. 

 

So they had a much smaller hole to dig themselves out of than Buffalo. The Sabres tore the team down to a level that isn’t seen very often. 

 

Im not taking anything away from the leafs rebuild. I’m just saying it wasn’t as complete a tear down as our. Toronto made a lot of smart decisions (more of them than Buffalo did!).

 

There was definitely some luck involved too. They won the draft lottery in their only year finishing last and were also lucky that a true #1 franchise center like Auston Matthews was the prize. 

 

Hiring Babcock was also a huge boon to their rebuild. He came in and changed that culture pretty much on day 1. 

 

Had Toronto missed out on hiring Babcock and went with Guy Boucher instead (they almost did because they thought they were out on Babs, then apparently his wife said no to buffalo, or so the story goes...) and got Laine in the draft instead of Matthews, I wonder where they’d be at right now? Would Tavares have left the NYI for Toronto? Would they be a powerhouse? Doubtful. 

 

Again, I’m not taking anything away from the leafs rebuild. There’s usually some luck involved in building a good team. 

Edited October 23, 2019 by BillsFan4

[BringBackFergy]

Sabres win...theeeeee Sabres win!!!

 

[Big C]

You guys seeing Sully and Jeremy White going at it on Twitter? Lol.

 

Love watching the Sabres this year. Feels very different from the hot start last year. 

 

Side note, I enjoy Biron's analysis.

[Boca BIlls]

2 hours ago, Doc said:

 

Can Murray be blamed for Lehner being drinking himself silly while in Buffalo?

Are you being drinking?

[EmotionallyUnstable]

Great OT period, thought they were going to blow it at the end of the 3rd. 
 

Great finish!!

[Bray Wyatt]

Mittlestadt with the hustle on the back check and then the awareness to turn around at the blue line and while in the retreat notice the line change and flip the pass up quick to risto, fantastic play

Edited October 23, 2019 by Bray Wyatt

[K-9]

Great game by two teams duking it out all night. Fun to watch. Nerve wracking, but fun none the less. The Sharks are a good team and we showed we can compete with them the last two games. This 8-1-1 streak is a helluva lot better than the 10 game winning streak last year. Nothing. Fluky. About. It. 

[JohnC]

48 minutes ago, BillsFan4 said:

Playing Halo.  ?

 

 

I agree with everything you said. 

 

But Id like to add one thing to that “Buffalo was a year ahead of Toronto” narrative. 

 

When that was said, it was assumed that Toronto was going to do a complete tear down rebuild like Buffalo had done. But then they lucked into hiring Babcock and changed course. They went with a re-tool, keeping a number of key pieces. 

 

So they had a much smaller hole to dig themselves out of than Buffalo. The Sabres tore the team down to a level that isn’t seen very often. 

 

Im not taking anything away from the leafs rebuild. I’m just saying it wasn’t as complete a tear down as our. Toronto made a lot of smart decisions (more of them than Buffalo did!).

 

There was definitely some luck involved too. They won the draft lottery in their only year finishing last and were also lucky that a true #1 franchise center like Auston Matthews was the prize. 

 

Hiring Babcock was also a huge boon to their rebuild. He came in and changed that culture pretty much on day 1. 

 

Had Toronto missed out on hiring Babcock and went with Guy Boucher instead (they almost did because they thought they were out on Babs, then apparently his wife said no to buffalo, or so the story goes...) and got Laine in the draft instead of Matthews, I wonder where they’d be at right now? Would Tavares have left the NYI for Toronto? Would they be a powerhouse? Doubtful. 

 

Again, I’m not taking anything away from the leafs rebuild. There’s usually some luck involved in building a good team. 

Everything you said is astute. But I have a slightly different take. If the draft balls resulted in Toronto getting Laine instead of Matthews I still believe that they would be in the same position as they are in now. I would prefer having Matthews over Laine but the difference between them would not have altered the course that they are on now. The Babcock hire certainly was a franchise altering course just as the Krueger hire has altered our trajectory. But what has allowed these coaches to have their positive/influential effects is the good personnel decisions by the respective front offices that have given them the talent to work with and mold. 

.

You ask the question whether Tavares would have left the Islanders for the Maple Leafs if Babock was the coaching hire. You have to remember that Babock left Detroit for the primary reason that it was simply time for the organization and him to make a change. The coaching lifespan for the coach and the organization ran its extended course. There is nothing unusual about that. Babock selected Toronto because it was a good situation for him. He saw the possibilities working for an organization with unlimited resources. The bottom line is that the organization made a lot of good decisions that accelerated their rebuild even if their rebuild wasn't as dramatic as ours. 

 

My basic point in this discourse is that when an organization is smartly run with all the ups and downs and good fortune and bad fortune that it faces eventually things will turn out well. That's what happened with Toronto and more belatedly post Murray that is what is happening in Buffalo. 

[JohnC]

6 minutes ago, K-9 said:

Great game by two teams duking it out all night. Fun to watch. Nerve wracking, but fun none the less. The Sharks are a good team and we showed we can compete with them the last two games. This 8-1-1 streak is a helluva lot better than the 10 game winning streak last year. Nothing. Fluky. About. It. 

As you pointed out this was a great game to watch. As with most games there is an ebb and flow but in this game I can't remember where there was a lull in effort from either side. 

 

I agree with you that the Sharks are a good and tough team. I thought that although they were the physically stronger team our tenacity helped compensate for that physical deficit. 

 

After watching a number of games I have altered my position on a Risto trade. He is a workhorse and rugged defenseman on a team that has mostly finesse defensemen. It's apparent that the coach trusts them more than any other pairing when it needs stops more than offense. 

 

 

3 hours ago, Doc said:

 

Can Murray be blamed for Lehner being drinking himself silly while in Buffalo?

The Lehner life issue existed before he got to Buffalo. His lack of emotional on ice and off ice control were known by the hockey world. 

[JohnC]

26 minutes ago, Bray Wyatt said:

Mittlestadt with the hustle on the back check and then the awareness to turn around at the blue line and while in the retreat notice the line change and flip the pass up quick to risto, fantastic play

I thought Vesey played well on that line. Eventually he is going to break through that goalie wall and score. He had a number of near misses. The scoring may not be there right now but the effort certainly is there. 

[K-9]

1 minute ago, JohnC said:

I thought Vesey played well on that line. Eventually he is going to break through that goalie wall and score. He had a number of near misses. The scoring may not be there right now but the effort certainly is there. 

I agree. Vesey is a much better positional player than I realized. Defensively responsible with good hockey sense from what I’ve seen so far. It’s only a matter of time before they start finding the back of the net. I’m hoping it’s Thursday against his old team. 

[JohnC]

1 minute ago, K-9 said:

I agree. Vesey is a much better positional player than I realized. Defensively responsible with good hockey sense from what I’ve seen so far. It’s only a matter of time before they start finding the back of the net. I’m hoping it’s Thursday against his old team. 

Johansson, Vesey, Miller and Joki were added to the roster for a minimal cost. Although none of these players fall into the elite category (Joki may eventually be a top tier player) they bolstered and added depth to a thin roster. The first three listed players added maturity and mental toughness to a team that was too fragile dealing with the rough periods. The GM performed exceptionally well this offseason adding talent and most importantly securing the right coach. 

[Nextmanup]

Just finished watching Ralph's postgame presser, focusing the entire time on only one thing: his nose.

 

It's really quite magnificent.

 

Still can't decide if our new "10 game win streak" is for real or not.  

Time will tell.  Until then, enjoy the ride!

 

 

[K-9]

8 minutes ago, Nextmanup said:

Just finished watching Ralph's postgame presser, focusing the entire time on only one thing: his nose.

 

It's really quite magnificent.

 

Still can't decide if our new "10 game win streak" is for real or not.  

Time will tell.  Until then, enjoy the ride!

 

 

All the underlying analytics tell us it’s real.