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BisonMan

High praise from Gil Brandt for the Bills’ offseason moves

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Very optimistic, but as many have pointed out, it falls on Allen. If you look at the list of recent Super Bowl champions, outside of Young and Wilson, almost none of them were mobile.At nearly a 100% clip Super Bowl winning QB's won in the pocket.  Even in the case of Young and Wilson, Young was still great in the pocket, Wilson was improving and had the best defense of his era backing him up. You could go back to 2001 or 2003 Baltimore Ravens or Tampa Bay Buccaneers teams, but again, two teams that had legendary defenses. Also a time in which it seemed like a truly epic defense could get you there. It's just not like that anymore. All recent Super Bowl winning QB's have won from the pocket. That's all I care about seeing from Josh this season. The last pocket QB we had that could get the ball downfield was Bledsoe and even in his frequent horror show the 2004 Bills losing to Pittsburgh's back ups in the last game of the season to miss the playoffs remains the best Bills team since the drought began.     

Edited by KzooMike

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7 hours ago, njbuff said:

 

Tell me which teams can rise above losing their starting QB?

 

I will answer for you..................

 

Not ONE team can afford to lose their starting QB and have a successful season.

Bledsoe/Brady

 

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7 hours ago, Limeaid said:

Bills chances of a playoff are too dependent upon Josh Allen remaining healthy.  If he is injured early in season or even worse takes a cheap shot in preseason our chances are not too good.  I will be disappointed but it will not be "a disappointment". 

What a revelation 

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10 hours ago, Limeaid said:

Bills chances of a playoff are too dependent upon Josh Allen remaining healthy.  If he is injured early in season or even worse takes a cheap shot in preseason our chances are not too good.  I will be disappointed but it will not be "a disappointment". 

There are 30 team that could say the same thing. Injuries are part of the game.

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10 hours ago, Limeaid said:

Bills chances of a playoff are too dependent upon Josh Allen remaining healthy.  If he is injured early in season or even worse takes a cheap shot in preseason our chances are not too good.  I will be disappointed but it will not be "a disappointment". 

Thats the case with most teams.  If the starter goes down they dont make the playoffs.  However, I think with what our D will be and what Im hoping our run game will be Barkley could get the team in.

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10 hours ago, inaugural balls said:

 

Nick Foles ......blahblahblahblahblah

Nick Foles did not lead his team to the playoffs......

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10 hours ago, njbuff said:

 

Tell me which teams can rise above losing their starting QB?

 

I will answer for you..................

 

Not ONE team can afford to lose their starting QB and have a successful season.

Pats in 2001, Ravens in 2018, Eagles in 2017 and 2018

 

Yes Allen is important, but Barkley looked capable in his one start last season. Not having Peterman by itself shd be good for a couple of wins.

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10 hours ago, Limeaid said:

Bills chances of a playoff are too dependent upon Josh Allen remaining healthy.  If he is injured early in season or even worse takes a cheap shot in preseason our chances are not too good.  I will be disappointed but it will not be "a disappointment". 

 

This is a key point that we haven't discussed enough.  His excellence, particularly running, lead to defensive players getting frustrated and wanting to take cheap shots.  Here's Kiko Alonso (5:14) way frustrated trying to line him.  If were a bit better at it he would have knocked Allen straight into the following week and he likely would have exited the game with a concussion.  Its one thing for a QB to frustrate you with outstanding passing, but as in this game, when that's combined with owning the D with his legs, cheap shots will get out of control

 

 

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11 hours ago, Limeaid said:

Bills chances of a playoff are too dependent upon Josh Allen remaining healthy.  If he is injured early in season or even worse takes a cheap shot in preseason our chances are not too good.  I will be disappointed but it will not be "a disappointment". 

 

I would say playoff changes are more dependent on him growing as an NFL QB/passer and part of that is not lowering his shoulder and taking guys on to get first downs.  He needs to use his head and arm to move the chains not his body.   If he does that then the chances he stays healthy are good.  If he trys to do too much with his legs he will likely get injured.

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11 hours ago, njbuff said:

 

Tell me which teams can rise above losing their starting QB?

 

I will answer for you..................

 

Not ONE team can afford to lose their starting QB and have a successful season.

 

10  backup quarterbacks who won the Super Bowl say hi 

 

https://www.pennlive.com/philadelphiaeagles/2018/01/could_nick_foles_be_next_7_qbs.html

 

 

a backup QB  "should" be one of the Top ten most important positions on the team.

 

never understand why most teams ignore the need

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13 hours ago, Bills Fan of Maryland said:

Patriots chances of a playoff are too dependent upon Tom Brady remaining healthy.  If he is injured early in season or even worse takes a cheap shot in preseason our chances are not too good.  KC's chances of a playoff are too dependent upon Mahomes remaining healthy.  If he is injured early in season or even worse takes a cheap shot in preseason our chances are not too good. Jets chances of a playoff are too dependent upon Darnold remaining healthy.  If he is injured early in season or even worse takes a cheap shot in preseason our chances are not too good. Packers chances of a playoff are too dependent upon Rogers remaining healthy.  If he is injured early in season or even worse takes a cheap shot in preseason our chances are not too good. Just sayin', it's the same for all teams. It's a QB league.

 

And that's why every one of these guys will barely play in the preseason.

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13 hours ago, Limeaid said:

Bills chances of a playoff are too dependent upon Josh Allen remaining healthy.  If he is injured early in season or even worse takes a cheap shot in preseason our chances are not too good.  I will be disappointed but it will not be "a disappointment". 

 

The Bills chances for a positive season are dependent upon Allen growing significantly as an NFL QB.  If he does that, the Bills should be able to get 8 or 9 wins but if he doesn't improve his passing game as well as demonstrate some mastery of the mental part of the game, which includes learning to run judiciously so that he is less likely to be injured, then not only will the season be a disappointment but the likelihood of him developing into a good/great NFL QB are seriously in doubt.  First round QBs who don't make significant improvement as 2nd year starters seldom go on to become successful starting QBs.

 

11 hours ago, Limeaid said:

 

This is exactly the reason why I qualified the answer.  Some are so wishing for Bills to fail so anything, even injury to starting QB, will make it a disappointment and anything else is an excuse and reason for starting the flush, restart process again.

 

That's nonsense.  Just because fans want to see results on the field before anointing McDermott and Beane the second coming of Levy and Polian doesn't mean that they wish the Bills to fail.   Numerous NFL teams bring in new regimes and start winning with regularity within 2 years  -- sometimes winning big like Philadelphia -- so it's not unreasonable to expect the Bills to start showing real improvement by their 3rd season into a new regime.   What's unreasonable is continuing to make excuses for a regime that shows little improvement.

 

2 hours ago, formerlyofCtown said:

Thats the case with most teams.  If the starter goes down they dont make the playoffs.  However, I think with what our D will be and what Im hoping our run game will be Barkley could get the team in.

 

Whistling past the cemetery again, eh?

  • The Bills D was not dominant last season, and it's not going to be all dominant this season.   The Bills need to significantly improve their run defense and their pass rush.
  • The Bills anemic running game from 2018 isn't suddenly going to transform into the 2005 Bears simply by improving the worse OL in the NFL last season and adding a 36 year old veteran RB and a rookie, especially if Allen is hurt and can't pad their run stats with his own runs.  
  • If Matt Barkley was good enough to be more than a stop-gap backup QB, he wouldn't have been sitting at home in October.
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6 minutes ago, SoTier said:

 

The Bills chances for a positive season are dependent upon Allen growing significantly as an NFL QB.  If he does that, the Bills should be able to get 8 or 9 wins but if he doesn't improve his passing game as well as demonstrate some mastery of the mental part of the game, which includes learning to run judiciously so that he is less likely to be injured, then not only will the season be a disappointment but the likelihood of him developing into a good/great NFL QB are seriously in doubt.  First round QBs who don't make significant improvement as 2nd year starters seldom go on to become successful starting QBs.

 

 

That's nonsense.  Just because fans want to see results on the field before anointing McDermott and Beane the second coming of Levy and Polian doesn't mean that they wish the Bills to fail.   Numerous NFL teams bring in new regimes and start winning with regularity within 2 years  -- sometimes winning big like Philadelphia -- so it's not unreasonable to expect the Bills to start showing real improvement by their 3rd season into a new regime.   What's unreasonable is continuing to make excuses for a regime that shows little improvement.

 

 

Whistling past the cemetery again, eh?

  • The Bills D was not dominant last season, and it's not going to be all dominant this season.   The Bills need to significantly improve their run defense and their pass rush.
  • The Bills anemic running game from 2018 isn't suddenly going to transform into the 2005 Bears simply by improving the worse OL in the NFL last season and adding a 36 year old veteran RB and a rookie, especially if Allen is hurt and can't pad their run stats with his own runs.  
  • If Matt Barkley was good enough to be more than a stop-gap backup QB, he wouldn't have been sitting at home in October.

1.  We no longer have Rookie at MLB also Harrison is no longer a Rookie, If you have ever watched Oliver play then you realize he is a beast.

 

2. I think the Oline is a pretty important part of the run game, dont you.  You will also see the word hope.

 

3.  See Foles career my friend.  I think he seems to be pretty serviceable in this system just as Foles plays well under certain circumstances. 

 

 

 

 

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10 hours ago, KzooMike said:

Very optimistic, but as many have pointed out, it falls on Allen. If you look at the list of recent Super Bowl champions, outside of Young and Wilson, almost none of them were mobile.At nearly a 100% clip Super Bowl winning QB's won in the pocket.  Even in the case of Young and Wilson, Young was still great in the pocket, Wilson was improving and had the best defense of his era backing him up. You could go back to 2001 or 2003 Baltimore Ravens or Tampa Bay Buccaneers teams, but again, two teams that had legendary defenses. Also a time in which it seemed like a truly epic defense could get you there. It's just not like that anymore. All recent Super Bowl winning QB's have won from the pocket. That's all I care about seeing from Josh this season. The last pocket QB we had that could get the ball downfield was Bledsoe and even in his frequent horror show the 2004 Bills losing to Pittsburgh's back ups in the last game of the season to miss the playoffs remains the best Bills team since the drought began.     

Rodgers Roethlisberger and even Foles was running RPO are all mobile.  Is it just skewed by Brady and the Manning Brothers winning so many?  I agree you need to be good in the pocket but a lot of mobile QBs win (or get to) the Bowl.  I'm not really considering Dilfer or Johnson as mobile.

 

I would argue the 2015 Broncos Defense carried Manning versus him "winning" from the pocket.  There are many ways to win or get to the Super Bowl; however, I would agree that having a great pocket passer is the most common method.

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1 hour ago, SoTier said:

 

  • The Bills D was not dominant last season, and it's not going to be all dominant this season. 

Agree. They have a chance to be much better if Edmunds takes a HUGE step forward in terms of recognition and Oliver is such a force that he makes the entire front four better. Not out of the question I suppose. I'd feel a lot better about the D had they landed Ansah. They should be very good. Dominant? We shall see. They weren't dominant last season.

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13 hours ago, Putin said:

I want to face Rosen !!!! 

Me too. I've been watching Cards games since he was traded to Miami. 

 

Rosen blows. He makes about one good throw a game. He doesnt step into the pocket, his accuracy is widely erratic as a result. His foot work is awful sometimes and he is a checkdown machine. I hope he starts every game. He is terrible

 

Yes the team sucked around him, but he had better weapons than we did week one last year. 

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16 hours ago, Limeaid said:

Bills chances of a playoff are too dependent upon Josh Allen remaining healthy.  If he is injured early in season or even worse takes a cheap shot in preseason our chances are not too good.  I will be disappointed but it will not be "a disappointment". 

I think when you look at any team, their playoff chances rely greatly on the health of their starting QB.  There is a reason why one is a starter, and one isn't.  With that being said, I believe we are in a better position this year to absorbe a 3-4 game stretch where our back up QB can emerge with a winning record.  

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17 hours ago, 2ForMacAdoo said:

Well, the Philadelphia Eagles won a Super Bowl led by backup Nick Foles so it IS possible. Just very, very rare. 

 

Yeah, I'm going to call BS on this.

 

Eagles won SB with backup, Foles.

Giants won SB XXV with backup, Hostetler

Rams won SB with backup, Kurt Warner

Fish won 11 of their el perfecto games with backup QB Earl Morrall (who also played in SB VI replacing injured Johny Unitas for a while.  Also backup up Johny for a whole season and they went 13-1 and he was MVP)

Bills won a playoff game with a backup QB

Washington won SB with backup QB Doug Williams

Vikings would have made SB with backup Randal Cunningham if their kicker could make a FG

Raiders won SB with backup Jim Plunkett

Brett Favre did pretty well coming in as backup when the Magic Man got injured

Heck, we made the playoffs twice with backup QB Doug Flutie

 

These teams pulled the antithesis of going with Nasty Nate as your backup 2 years in a row ...

 

The Bills of all teams should  understand the importance of backup QB with us getting to one SB with miraculous help from backup QB Frank Reich and losing SB XXV to  backup QB Jeff Hostetler.

 

"The most important position on the team is QB.  The second most important is backup QB."  - HOF Joe Gibbs (Ask Gil about Joe Gibbs)

 

 

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3 hours ago, LSHMEAB said:

Agree. They have a chance to be much better if Edmunds takes a HUGE step forward in terms of recognition and Oliver is such a force that he makes the entire front four better. Not out of the question I suppose. I'd feel a lot better about the D had they landed Ansah. They should be very good. Dominant? We shall see. They weren't dominant last season.

 

D needs to vastly improve on points given up.  At 23.5, #15 in the league, that's nothing to write home to Mom about.  Of course, cutting down on the number of pick sixes our QB throws could help that too.

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18 hours ago, Bills Fan of Maryland said:

Patriots chances of a playoff are too dependent upon Tom Brady remaining healthy.  If he is injured early in season or even worse takes a cheap shot in preseason our chances are not too good.  KC's chances of a playoff are too dependent upon Mahomes remaining healthy.  If he is injured early in season or even worse takes a cheap shot in preseason our chances are not too good. Jets chances of a playoff are too dependent upon Darnold remaining healthy.  If he is injured early in season or even worse takes a cheap shot in preseason our chances are not too good. Packers chances of a playoff are too dependent upon Rogers remaining healthy.  If he is injured early in season or even worse takes a cheap shot in preseason our chances are not too good. Just sayin', it's the same for all teams. It's a QB league.

 

 

What team out there is not dependent on the injury bug not hitting them, especially in key positions like QB? But, I guess that is your point.

 

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Another winning offseasons in the books

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, reddogblitz said:

 

D needs to vastly improve on points given up.  At 23.5, #15 in the league, that's nothing to write home to Mom about.  Of course, cutting down on the number of pick sixes our QB throws could help that too.

Holding opponents to field goals every once in a while would help. We had a serious problem in the RZ last season. It was awful. Everyone has a theory and mine is that they need to create more negative plays and turnovers. Some believe it's as simple as improving the run D, but I don't see it that way. There were far too many occasions where QB's were given all day down there. The way you solve that is by turning up the heat and creating negative down and distance situations. Oliver should help, but I'm not sure that's enough. Murphy could probably help some if he can stay on the field. Maybe this Darryl Johnson character can help. Either way, we've got to get in the QB's mug if we want to improve these numbers. 

 

As an aside, I like to think I'd have more important things to say to Mom if I were in some dire situation where a letter was the only option.

Edited by LSHMEAB
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21 hours ago, Limeaid said:

Bills chances of a playoff are too dependent upon Josh Allen remaining healthy.  If he is injured early in season or even worse takes a cheap shot in preseason our chances are not too good.  I will be disappointed but it will not be "a disappointment". 

 

Almost every team's chances are dependent on their QB. If almost any teams QB gets hurt that's all she wrote for the season. The Bills season rests mainly on Josh Allen both his health and development. 

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22 hours ago, LSHMEAB said:

Is that a good thing? It's a good thing if their plan leads to success starting now. The excuses, valid or not, are gone. This is a crucial year for them. I think Pegula has full confidence in Beane and McDermott, but billionaires tend to want to see results. 

 

Every year is crucial. 

 

They'll get full term.

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10 hours ago, formerlyofCtown said:

1.  We no longer have Rookie at MLB also Harrison is no longer a Rookie, If you have ever watched Oliver play then you realize he is a beast.

 

2. I think the Oline is a pretty important part of the run game, dont you.  You will also see the word hope.

 

3.  See Foles career my friend.  I think he seems to be pretty serviceable in this system just as Foles plays well under certain circumstances. 

 

 

 

 

 

1.  Edmunds has to improve significantly.   Moreover, lots of rookies who play decently fail to improve.  Dion Dawkins on the OL is a case in point.  The NFL is not college, and the general rule for DTs is that it will take them 2 or 3 seasons to not only master all the techniques but to learn their opponents and how best to beat/neutralize them -- while at the same time the OLers will be concentrating on learning how to best neutralize Oliver.  DT is one of the hardest positions to transition from college to pros because a lot of these young studs who got by on their raw talent have to become students of the game in the pros.

 

2.  I have no doubt that the OL will be better than last season but that's because it doesn't seem possible that it could be any worse.  That doesn't mean that it will be good.  It's simply wishful thinking to believe that it could be good enough to consistently open holes for the running game without having a decent passing game to keep defenses honest.

 

3.  Nick Foles was never sitting at home in October hoping some team would call him.  He contemplated retiring after being cut by the Rams in 2016 but re-signed with the Chiefs about a week later.  He also has started 36 games prior to re-signing with Philly in 2017, and was named to the Pro Bowl in 2013 when he threw 27 TDs and 2 INTs in Chip Kelly's fast paced offense.   Foles played in 3 regular season games in 2017 and 5 in 2018, although they were split between the beginning and end of the season in 2018 IIRC.

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