Patrick Duffy Posted May 12, 2019 Share Posted May 12, 2019 Just now, MAJBobby said: Just comparing even last year. Shaq was even more productive. Yes, agreed. That's quite obvious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAJBobby Posted May 12, 2019 Share Posted May 12, 2019 1 minute ago, JoPar_v2 said: Exactly. I realize the overall pass rush numbers for Shaq are poor, but he has improved his overall play the past two years under McDermott. Whatever. These hater threads are f****** stupid at this point; the option is gone. He’ll probably go succeed elsewhere and these know-nothings pissing on the guy will suddenly fall silent and melt back under their bridges. Without the option really doesn’t matter. Just sets up a decision is all. Let’s say he lights it up. He still isn’t going anywhere. Just doesnt make make sense to me to be down on Shaq when he out produced the other DEs not named Hughes. Also would Pop inside as well which I saw multiple times during the season. That ability alone means more to me than ANYTHING Trent Murphy has done There is something to be said that He has survived this regimes “purge” of the former regimes players. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldmanfan Posted May 12, 2019 Share Posted May 12, 2019 (edited) I recall a decent number of pressures last year. Let's see what he does; no decision has to be made right now. Edited May 12, 2019 by oldmanfan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted May 12, 2019 Share Posted May 12, 2019 43 minutes ago, MAJBobby said: Just comparing even last year. Shaq was even more productive. Which makes sense. His rookie year was injury recovery and in a bad situation. If you write off that year he’s just a young guy coming into his own in a new system and healthy. I think that option decision makes people feel like he’s been here and in it longer than he really has. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted May 12, 2019 Share Posted May 12, 2019 2 hours ago, NoSaint said: He’s essentially paid as a rotational/backup DE here. He will be likewise in 2020, somewhere. Kind of my thoughts, he’s a solid player. He’s not a great pass rusher but he isn’t terrible. He is really good against the run. He’s going to get a contract similar to what Murphy got IMO. 1 hour ago, MAJBobby said: Without the option really doesn’t matter. Just sets up a decision is all. Let’s say he lights it up. He still isn’t going anywhere. Just doesnt make make sense to me to be down on Shaq when he out produced the other DEs not named Hughes. Also would Pop inside as well which I saw multiple times during the season. That ability alone means more to me than ANYTHING Trent Murphy has done There is something to be said that He has survived this regimes “purge” of the former regimes players. Well said Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptnCoke11 Posted May 12, 2019 Share Posted May 12, 2019 He’s just not quick enough off the ball to ever be a good pass rusher. Solid overall DE but nothing special Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orlando Tim Posted May 12, 2019 Author Share Posted May 12, 2019 2 hours ago, Rc2catch said: So many Lawson haters.. Lot of teams would love to have a player like Shaq. It’s still completely possible he learns a move or two and gets better rushes on the quarterback. But he’s showing a really impressive knack for batting down balls at the line which is valuable as well. I would imagine any 4-3 team in the league would take him for the right price. He’s not a 100 million guy and that’s ok. Not his fault he was picked high and hasn’t lived up to his draft position. If he has a breakout year this season he’ll get a giant payday next offseason i do not hate Shaq in any way but we play a D that he does not fit. i think if Rex had been given his D Shaq would be considered much better. My question is whose D does he fit? also if he will come back for a reasonable contract i am for it but he will be rotational. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo Barbarian Posted May 12, 2019 Share Posted May 12, 2019 Yes , if you didn't teams would just run sweeps all day. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ganesh Posted May 12, 2019 Share Posted May 12, 2019 3 hours ago, NewEra said: Doesn’t matter. We declined his option. One and done regardless of how he does imo. Declining 5th year option doesn't preclude him signing with the team on a team friendly contract. The Bills have determined that he is not worth 10-12M for the 5th year. May be if he understands the same concept, he could possibly sign a 2-year extension say for $6M per year to improve his skills. It will all depend on whether the Bills want him here and if he wants to continue to be here. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
White Linen Posted May 12, 2019 Share Posted May 12, 2019 3 hours ago, JoPar_v2 said: Exactly. I realize the overall pass rush numbers for Shaq are poor, but he has improved his overall play the past two years under McDermott. Whatever. These hater threads are f****** stupid at this point; the option is gone. He’ll probably go succeed elsewhere and these know-nothings pissing on the guy will suddenly fall silent and melt back under their bridges. Do you not see that these kind of statements are equally "stupid at this point"? The guy was a miss and just improving isn't enough. I'm not saying hate the guy and wish bad things on him - but strictly as a football matter - he's a massive disappointment. I'd like to have a rational football discussion with you as someone who is in opposition to you on Shaq as a player. Value is a huge factor in winning. It's critical that some players perform at a much higher level than their pay. For example Tre White. He's been a shut down corner and it's allowed us to allocate resources to other positions. When we have to pay him - then you no longer benefit from him being good because you're paying him to be. The best he can do is equal his pay and due to injuries and other things - this rarely happens when players are at the top of their pay scale. It's for this reason that you need players like Shaq to perform and when they don't it sets your team back. He's not going to be someone we cry about and regret because if he does get the 6 million a year - even if he gets better and better, he's no longer value for the play. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orlando Tim Posted May 12, 2019 Author Share Posted May 12, 2019 4 hours ago, JoPar_v2 said: Exactly. I realize the overall pass rush numbers for Shaq are poor, but he has improved his overall play the past two years under McDermott. Whatever. These hater threads are f****** stupid at this point; the option is gone. He’ll probably go succeed elsewhere and these know-nothings pissing on the guy will suddenly fall silent and melt back under their bridges. I do not see how this is a "hater thread" -he has a skill set that does not match our D and I do not see many players of his skill set in demand. He is not terrible but he is like a back to basket center in NBA today, not in demand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsfaninChicago Posted May 12, 2019 Share Posted May 12, 2019 This is a really edgy thread! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Brown Posted May 12, 2019 Share Posted May 12, 2019 4 hours ago, MAJBobby said: Everyone down on Shaq is laughable. The guy has done more in a Bills uniform than Trent Murphy Not a high bar and he barely did that. Little improvement from 2017. Just not explosive enough to get regular pressure on the QB. He's decent against the run, maintains his gap assignments, and bats down more balls that the average DE......but you expect more production from a first round pick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted May 12, 2019 Share Posted May 12, 2019 2 hours ago, Buffalo Timmy said: i do not hate Shaq in any way but we play a D that he does not fit. i think if Rex had been given his D Shaq would be considered much better. My question is whose D does he fit? also if he will come back for a reasonable contract i am for it but he will be rotational. I don't agree that we play a D he doesn't fit. I think he is actually a good fit in our D or any 4-3 under base defense as the 7 technique "big end". That means the guy who lines up on the strong side of the formation, typically in the gap between the tight end and offensive tackle. This guy is vital in stopping the run and must be able to keep lane discipline or else the integrity of the whole defensive scheme fails. Pretty much every 4-3 under base in the league - Seahawks, Panthers, Patriots, Chargers, Falcons, Cowboys etc would find use for a player like Shaq in exactly this role. What you are doing is mistaking a skill set limitation for a scheme fit issue. Shaq unfortunately has not developed as a pass rusher enough to be an all round defensive end who is able to play in alignments other than the 4-3 under base - like the wide nine - which is the Bills (and many other 4-3 base teams) go to alignment in obvious passing downs. When lined up wider in the 9 technique on 3rd and long Shaq doesn't have the burst to make enough plays that affect the Quarterback and so what you often saw last season was the Bills take him off the field in that scenario (Lorenzo was used on the line more etc). That limits his value to an early downs defensive end who you only really want out there in your base defense. That said Shaq was more productive last year with 12 QB hits as well as his 4 sacks. If you want to speculate on what will happen next then I think Adrian Clayborn is a decent comparator. Was also drafted in the middle of the first by Tampa and while he was a little more productive in terms of sack numbers compared to playing time (he had 13 in his 4 years in Tampa and like Shaq had injury issues) he was essentially seen at the end of that as a 7 technique who you wouldn't really want out there on an obvious passing down. Atlanta signed him to a 3 year $12m contract after that and he was used as a rotational defensive end - as a 7 tech - on early downs and had limited sack production the first two years (7.5 over 2 years) before "breaking out" the third year with 9.5 (half of which came in one game against a terrible Dallas backup). He got a decent two year deal off New England after that but they realised after one they had overvalued him and he has gone back to Atlanta on a 1 year $2m dollar deal. So is Shaq's free agent market limited? Yes. But it is limited by skill set not scheme fit. He fits any of the 4-3 under base defenses that use a scheme like the one we do... including being a fit here. The limitation is he isn't a true 3 down player and so his value is probably capped at that $4m a year type mark. 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BullBuchanan Posted May 12, 2019 Share Posted May 12, 2019 (edited) I think Shaq likely projects as a Spencer Johnson caliber player. Solid rotational guy that has some good seasons, but at the end of the day is just a journeyman that every team is trying to replace with a rookie that has more ceiling. I think we'll see Shaq's ceiling this year, and I think it's pretty close to his best last season. In a good year, he's probably good for 6-7 sacks. If you were paying the guy 4M a year to be a warm body, I wouldn't have a problem with it, but he's a major disappointment considering draft position. I never liked him coming out of college because of how slow he was, and that seems to be the case thus far in the pros. It's almost impossible to fix. Edited May 12, 2019 by BullBuchanan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewEra Posted May 12, 2019 Share Posted May 12, 2019 3 hours ago, ganesh said: Declining 5th year option doesn't preclude him signing with the team on a team friendly contract. The Bills have determined that he is not worth 10-12M for the 5th year. May be if he understands the same concept, he could possibly sign a 2-year extension say for $6M per year to improve his skills. It will all depend on whether the Bills want him here and if he wants to continue to be here. I realize that. I just don’t think he’ll be back next year Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monty98 Posted May 12, 2019 Share Posted May 12, 2019 Dallas uses Tyrone Crawford as an edge setter at DE, Trey Flowers was a better edge setter than pass rusher, Chris Long is an edge setter and that is just off the top of my head Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ganesh Posted May 12, 2019 Share Posted May 12, 2019 4 hours ago, NewEra said: I realize that. I just don’t think he’ll be back next year Yes. I think it is too early to write him off though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldTimeAFLGuy Posted May 12, 2019 Share Posted May 12, 2019 11 hours ago, Augie said: Are we just trying to get him close to his actual worth??? by Josh Alper on May 10, 2019, 3:06 PM EDT Bills head coach Sean McDermott stuck to those talking points when asked about passing on the 2020 option on defensive end Shaq Lawson‘s contract. “The critical piece is we’ve had communications with Shaq and we’re on the same page,” McDermott said, via the Buffalo News. “Doesn’t necessarily mean after this year we will go our separate ways. We like the work he’s put in.” 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cripple Creek Posted May 12, 2019 Share Posted May 12, 2019 11 hours ago, MAJBobby said: Everyone down on Shaq is laughable. The guy has done more in a Bills uniform than Trent Murphy We're "down" on him too Bobby. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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