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does any team still use DE who mainly set edge?


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4 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I think the Bills are open to bringing Shaq back - precisely because he does fit a role on this defense. It sounds as though they have communicated with his side that it is about finding where his value is and they have agreed to let 2019 play out. I still think it is more likely than not that Shaq is elsewhere next season but it isn't totally impossible that he is back. It really depends what kind of season he has. If Ed Oliver demolishing centers and guards pushes Quarterbacks into the waiting arms of Shaq Lawson sufficiently that he say doubles last season's sack total he is going to get a bigger FA contract than I think is sensible to pay. If he has a similar year to last year 4/5 sacks, a dozen or so QB hits, half a dozen passes defenses and another half a dozen tackles for loss then I can see the Bills offering him a deal in that $4m range to stay on. 

 

Regardless of whether it is Shaq or not the Bills will have a defensive end in their rotation in 2020 who is primarily an edge setter rather than a pass rusher. People are down on that guy being Shaq because it is not a difference making contribution you expect from a first round pick. That of course is true but it is a sunken cost at this stage. What the Bills will be doing after this season is looking at the value of Shaq in that role vs the value of bringing a guy in from outside. Price, age, continuity and scheme familiarity will all come into that consideration I expect. 

 

...if, IF I remember correctly GB, a quote was posted where McBeane said, "we place a value on a player and that's it"....Shaq's 5th year option exceeded their "value".....would McBeane bring him back at "his price"?...perhaps.....if market insanity chooses to overpay him, best wishes.....

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1 hour ago, richardb1952 said:

The 5th year option for Shaq is worth 9.45 million.  He is not worth that.  He is a good DE that has gotten better each year. There is no reason for the Bills to take on a fifth year option, even if it is guaranteed for injury only.  I billieve the Bills want to see continued improvement and will look to re-sign him to a multi-year contract if, in fact, he continues to improve.  I like Shaq and have seen the improvement.  I think he will be back as a Bill.

Exactly. If they picked up the option and then tried to resign him the starting point would be 10 mil a year. Hes not worth that right now. This gives them flexibility and they will prolly offer him an extension lower than that, if he gets a better offer elsewhere he prolly takes it. Oh well. Maybe he really breaks out and has a ten sack year, doesnt seem likely but who knows. Hes been more of an edge setter than anything else since clemson

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18 hours ago, Putin said:

He much improved last year , if he can stay healthy & having Oliver putting pressure up the middle could benefit him greatly,  

i actually expect Shaq to have a good year !

 

i expect them all to have a good year with this rotation. Good question OP.
I expect most teams use a containment type of player with some pass rush push. He was using his hands better last year, including recognizing pass lanes and when the ball was coming out. I might be in the minority but i would like to see him improve enough to remain as a rotational player. He can easily move inside on pass downs if needed. Thats a plus for him. going to keep an eye on him if he makes it to the roster of 53 without a trade

15 hours ago, CaptnCoke11 said:

He’s just not quick enough off the ball to ever be a good pass rusher.  Solid overall DE but nothing special 

this is the fact, he relies in strength and technique . Both of which could improve in my opinion. good read and recognition, and improved his discipline last year

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12 hours ago, Doc Brown said:

Not a high bar and he barely did that.  Little improvement from 2017.  Just not explosive enough to get regular pressure on the QB.  He's decent against the run, maintains his gap assignments, and bats down more balls that the average DE......but you expect more production from a first round pick.

is assessing his value to the team still tied to his reach of a pick perhaps ?
He is a solid , not spectacular player. steady improvement in his role last year.
nearly a bust before that imo. injury and sketchy play.
good prove it year for him in Buffalo is my opinion
                                                                     

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4 hours ago, JoPar_v2 said:

 

I am not saying he’s not a miss. All I am saying is he’s improving. You say that’s not enough. That’s fair; he was a 1st round pick and hasn’t lived up to it. I judge Shaq’s improvement in a different light maybe - I think he can be a very good disrupter on the D line without ever putting up the pressure numbers a 1st rd DE might be expected to put up.

 

idk, i just see a lot of improvement under McDermott. I dont want talent walking out the door while still attached to a steroid case like Murphy.

 

You in other words did say he's not a miss and it's probable that us "know-nothings pissing on the guy will suddenly fall silent and melt back under their bridges" once he's on another team. 

 

I'm not trying to disrespect you but if you think Shaq can in any stretch of the definition be called a disruptor - then I'm afraid our conversation can't continue.  I also vehemently disagree that a DE can be called that without pressuring the QB.  It is the most important thing they can do - even greater than sack totals.  

 

It's ok to be disappointed in Shaq, Murphy and the FO for the Murphy signing.  I am.

 

Look, he's done some things and he has gotten better.  However he's burned up his value years and wasn't given a 5th year option because of it.  I'm with the FO, that we need more, we have the money to get more and will.  

 

 

Edited by White Linen
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15 minutes ago, 3rdand12 said:

is assessing his value to the team still tied to his reach of a pick perhaps ?
He is a solid , not spectacular player. steady improvement in his role last year.
nearly a bust before that imo. injury and sketchy play.
good prove it year for him in Buffalo is my opinion
                                                                     

It is as far as as picking up the 5th year option is and the money that entails.  His play reminds me a lot of Ryan Denney and we should treat his value as such.

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3 minutes ago, Doc Brown said:

It is as far as as picking up the 5th year option is and the money that entails.  His play reminds me a lot of Ryan Denney and we should treat his value as such.

Hey

 Bills  gave  Kelsay a bonus contract to finish his career in Buffalo !?
 This FO is a bit more level headed I hope. Picking up the option is an easy NO.
Letting him play the season and then test the market would be best for both sides.
if he shows up this year , perhaps  a long term negotiations should begin.

 or he could be traded before the season starts>  keep an eye on this story.

edge setters get no respect I tell you. No respect at all.

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14 minutes ago, 3rdand12 said:

Hey

 Bills  gave  Kelsay a bonus contract to finish his career in Buffalo !?
 This FO is a bit more level headed I hope. Picking up the option is an easy NO.
Letting him play the season and then test the market would be best for both sides.
if he shows up this year , perhaps  a long term negotiations should begin.

 or he could be traded before the season starts>  keep an eye on this story.

edge setters get no respect I tell you. No respect at all.

Yeah.  The geniuses at OBD gavae him a four year 24 million dollar extension to finish out his career.  The time span of his career is one I'd like to forget.

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4 hours ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

 

Shaq's rookie contract was four years for $10.2 mill. At that rate, he's the 49th highest paid DE in terms of average salary. I wouldn't be surprised to see him get a contract around there again, perhaps even a bit higher.

i had not thought of it this way- i would certainly pay a rotational guy 3 year at 10 million total for what he has done. 

6 hours ago, JoPar_v2 said:

 

There are a lot of haters in this thread and about 100 others about Shaq. Maybe people in this one are hiding their hate more than usual but trust it still remains.

 

the kid has performed wayyyy better under this regime as opposed to rex so not sure what you’re talking about. McD’s heavy rotation on the D line helps Shaq, it helps everyone currently playing D line on this team including players like Phillips who get a pass around here; I wonder why...

i will admit that his skill set might fit better than i realize because i do not watch him in particular. i do not see domination by him or Starr but i know Starr has an assignment to let others make the play. 

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On 5/11/2019 at 7:48 PM, oldmanfan said:

I recall a decent number of pressures last year.  Let's see what he does; no decision has to be made right now.

Exactly!!!

just because we declined the 5th year option ( IMO ) doesn’t mean we can’t still sign him  , if he shows again this year that he’s willing to put in the work to improve his overall game , maybe not at 10-12 million a year but in the range of 4-6 ? 

 

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9 hours ago, Putin said:

Exactly!!!

just because we declined the 5th year option ( IMO ) doesn’t mean we can’t still sign him  , if he shows again this year that he’s willing to put in the work to improve his overall game , maybe not at 10-12 million a year but in the range of 4-6 ? 

 

I like Shaq and if he wasn't overdrafted we most likely would not be feeding this thread as much. He's not a 10 mil a year player but he's more than adequate in a rotational system and plays solid contain. Though they're different positions Id take him over Preston Brown all day. 

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On 5/11/2019 at 7:15 PM, Augie said:

 

Are we just trying to get him close to his actual worth???

He needs to produce more pressure but it feels like some posters treat him like he was a top 10 pick.  If he produced 7 sacks a season Id be happy.

Edited by formerlyofCtown
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