Beane: Gore will push McCoy to be the starter

[BADOLBILZ]

2 hours ago, H2o said:

Gore is just not the player he was. Can he still be effective in a spot role? Sure, but he's not going to beat Shady out as the starter. Shady is going to bounce back behind a much improved OL. The guy to watch is Singletary. I think he is going to push Gore for the backup spot. 

 

And McCoy IS still the player he was?   Is that what you are saying?

 

Gore had 700 yards on 4.6 ypc last year.........he TOOK the reps AWAY from a talented Kenyan Drake.

 

At some point the production has to stop but unlike McCoy he just hasn't had a season where he crashed and burned.........even behind those awful Indy OL's he ground it out.

 

 

 

[BADOLBILZ]

8 minutes ago, teef said:

no.  this is you doing you.  there's really not much of an argument to be had.  it was nonsense off season talk.  who cares.  you're going to turn this into a badolbilz thing, aren't you?  you know...where you carry on a strange crusade that no one really cares about.  you'll twist words, exaggerate truths, and often, straight up lie to prove a point?  yeah...i'm good with that.

 

 

Man.......you sure have an unusual hard on for me Teef........settle down it's a football discussion.

 

Nonsense offseason talk is drafting a QB in round 1 and then saying that he's going to have to compete with Kevin Kolb................that's giving lip service to nonsense.

 

The concept of Frank Gore getting more snaps than LeSean McCoy is not that.    You can disagree that it's an open competition but calling it nonsense is the nonsense.         

 

[BADOLBILZ]

4 hours ago, Ethan in Portland said:

That’s a bit of a reach. Dawkins is the only player of note up for a new contract extension as he would be entering his final year. I guess you can include Milano too. Hyde, Poyer, White, Allen, and Edmunds are all under contract until 2021 or beyond. None of them will get extensions next year.

 

 

I get your line of thought but on average you can roll over 10% of your cap every single year without penalty.    More some years, less others, doesn't matter........the rule is 90% has to be spent over a given time period so 10% is always free to roll.     

 

So $6M saved this year can be spent two years from now when the team might be looking to extend Josh Allen.........or 5 years from now.   It's not necessarily about the next offseason.

 

At some point if your team gets good you will need cap room to sustain it.    It would be great to win the SB as the youngest team in the entire league like Seattle did.....but it's insane that 2 offseason later they had to dismantle the team because of salary cap.    I mean they were the YOUNGEST TEAM in the entire league.......that kind of situation is avoidable but there isn't room for carelessness with the cap.   

 

As for the individual players.........it's reasonable to project White and Edmunds as potential $15M-$17M players if they were matured to ceiling and FA's right now..........that's what those positions have recently paid...........so a few years down the line that's probably closer to $20M.    Top QB's are $35M now so Allen will probably be in the $40M range if he turns into a franchise QB.    If it's a reach it's not a very large one.

[teef]

15 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

Man.......you sure have an unusual hard on for me Teef........settle down it's a football discussion.

 

Nonsense offseason talk is drafting a QB in round 1 and then saying that he's going to have to compete with Kevin Kolb................that's giving lip service to nonsense.

 

The concept of Frank Gore getting more snaps than LeSean McCoy is not that.    You can disagree that it's an open competition but calling it nonsense is the nonsense.         

 

it's your world, and i'm living in it!

[Gugny]

The notion that a seasoned vet like McCoy would need to be "pushed" by another seasoned vet in Gore is silly to me.

 

McCoy is toast.  Gore is RB1.

[eball]

17 hours ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

Most rbs say they need a bunch of carries to get into a rhythm.  I mean depth is not a bad problem but no back is going to thrive switching in and out.  

 

Nah, that's the old days of "workhorse" RBs who got 25-30 carries and would say they don't "warm up" until they've been hit a few times.  Lots of teams use RBBC, including very successful ones (the Pats*** say hello).  Shady was going to be a <20 carry back no matter how you slice it.  If the Bills run the ball 30-35 times a game there are plenty of carries to go around to Shady/Gore/Singletary.

[JerseyBills]

17 hours ago, billsbackto81 said:

Even though I feel Gore would've faired better behind that line because of his within the tackle running style, he still would've had a tough go of it. I think both him and Shady will thrive with the new and improved O line. 

Same, i'm anticipating a big bounce back year from Shady and Gore can play at a very very high level . They started training last off season and both really gushed about one another, I see this as a win win , with 2 friends who happen to be HOF RB pushing each other to their highest level this year. Love Yeldon and Singletary behind them as well.

[freddyjj]

7 minutes ago, JerseyBills said:

Same, i'm anticipating a big bounce back year from Shady and Gore can play at a very very high level . They started training last off season and both really gushed about one another, I see this as a win win , with 2 friends who happen to be HOF RB pushing each other to their highest level this year. Love Yeldon and Singletary behind them as well.

Could it be Daboll is loading up for a fast paced offense with package substitutions?  No huddle within the package.  

[JerseyBills]

7 minutes ago, freddyjj said:

Could it be Daboll is loading up for a fast paced offense with package substitutions?  No huddle within the package.  

That's a great thought, it certainly looks like they have a pretty clear vision of what they want to achieve on offense and I could see that being super effective, especially with defenses also having to account for Allens running ability, that type of scheme can really open the offense up. With all the RB being very good in the pass game as well, that'd be very interesting and exciting. 

[JaCrispy]

5 hours ago, formerlyofCtown said:

Yes the whole 20 of you.

First of all, I disagree with your premise that there are only 20 smart people on this board...

[H2o]

2 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

And McCoy IS still the player he was?   Is that what you are saying?

 

Gore had 700 yards on 4.6 ypc last year.........he TOOK the reps AWAY from a talented Kenyan Drake.

 

At some point the production has to stop but unlike McCoy he just hasn't had a season where he crashed and burned.........even behind those awful Indy OL's he ground it out.

 

 

 

You could see McCoy clearly still had his burst when he had lanes last year. The problem is he had no lanes, especially on the interior. McCoy is 30 and Gore is 35. Yes, I expect McCoy to easily beat out Gore for the starting role. But just like every other position on the team, it is always an open competition. I can't explain the misuse of Kenyan Drake in MIA. You'll have to ask googly eyes about that one. 

Edited May 9, 2019 by H2o

[Ethan in Cleveland]

2 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

I get your line of thought but on average you can roll over 10% of your cap every single year without penalty.    More some years, less others, doesn't matter........the rule is 90% has to be spent over a given time period so 10% is always free to roll.     

 

So $6M saved this year can be spent two years from now when the team might be looking to extend Josh Allen.........or 5 years from now.   It's not necessarily about the next offseason.

 

At some point if your team gets good you will need cap room to sustain it.    It would be great to win the SB as the youngest team in the entire league like Seattle did.....but it's insane that 2 offseason later they had to dismantle the team because of salary cap.    I mean they were the YOUNGEST TEAM in the entire league.......that kind of situation is avoidable but there isn't room for carelessness with the cap.   

 

As for the individual players.........it's reasonable to project White and Edmunds as potential $15M-$17M players if they were matured to ceiling and FA's right now..........that's what those positions have recently paid...........so a few years down the line that's probably closer to $20M.    Top QB's are $35M now so Allen will probably be in the $40M range if he turns into a franchise QB.    If it's a reach it's not a very large one.

I agree all those guys in an ideal world would get paid because they are worth keeping. Agree it makes sense to roll over as much money as they can. My only point is they won't get paid in 2020.  And Shady makes the team better in 2019. 

And for the record, I really like the Gore signing. I hated the Ivory signing because he was in decline for years. Gore has been productive.

If the line gels quickly, then this backfield can be great.

[ColoradoBills]

3 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

You said it was "nonsense" which implies there was a massive disparity between what McCoy and Gore bring to the table.

 

There's not.    In fact beside the raw numbers Gore is actually excellent at a lot of what Shady is traditionally poor at.......blitz pickup, not taking TFL's, short yardage and goal line conversion.........things traditionally seen as good for helping out a young QB along. 

 

Your response was a rapid back pedal from what you originally said...........that was the point of my response to you so mission accomplished.

 

I do hope that McCoy bounces back.........he needs to be used properly..........and I'd hope that Singletary turns into the every down back by 2020 if not at some point this year.   Just not sure he is THAT good.   I had him as RB1 in a poor RB class.    Hopefully the Bills prove me wrong with the pick and he turns into a Kareem Hunt or Alvin Kamara type producer.

 

 

 

I looked up Frank Gores "splits" yesterday and was surprised how Miami used him.

He was generally the 1st and 10 RB in which he was really good at achieving positive yards.

Then I looked up Shady's 1st down splits and it was pretty bad (I know about the OL being bad).

 

Gore very well could come in on 1st and 10 and try to set up Daboll with a 2nd and manageable down.

Shady is much better in that role than the 1st and 10.

 

Gore was seldom on the field for 3rd and 4th downs.

 

[Patrick Duffy]

3 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

Man.......you sure have an unusual hard on for me Teef........settle down it's a football discussion.

 

Nonsense offseason talk is drafting a QB in round 1 and then saying that he's going to have to compete with Kevin Kolb................that's giving lip service to nonsense.

 

The concept of Frank Gore getting more snaps than LeSean McCoy is not that.    You can disagree that it's an open competition but calling it nonsense is the nonsense.         

 

 

Lot of hard-on talk going on here. Oh my

[BADOLBILZ]

6 minutes ago, ColoradoBills said:

 

I looked up Frank Gores "splits" yesterday and was surprised how Miami used him.

He was generally the 1st and 10 RB in which he was really good at achieving positive yards.

Then I looked up Shady's 1st down splits and it was pretty bad (I know about the OL being bad).

 

Gore very well could come in on 1st and 10 and try to set up Daboll with a 2nd and manageable down.

Shady is much better in that role than the 1st and 10.

 

Gore was seldom on the field for 3rd and 4th downs.

 

 

 

Yeah he will keep you on schedule going into second down more often than not.

 

The most important split though was the total carries......... 156 for Gore.........which was as exactly many as the Dolphins #2 and #3 RB's combined.

 

If that number seems low for being the clear cut #1 RB........it's because the Dolphins ranked 25th(23.2) in rushes per game.   Bills ranked 6th(29.2).

 

Fun fact:   Gore and McCoy combined for 68 carries and 286 yards in the Bills/Colts snow game in 2017.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

3 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

There's not.    In fact beside the raw numbers Gore is actually excellent at a lot of what Shady is traditionally poor at.......blitz pickup, not taking TFL's, short yardage and goal line conversion.........things traditionally seen as good for helping out a young QB along. 

(...)

 

I do hope that McCoy bounces back.........he needs to be used properly..........and I'd hope that Singletary turns into the every down back by 2020 if not at some point this year.   Just not sure he is THAT good.   I had him as RB1 in a poor RB class.    Hopefully the Bills prove me wrong with the pick and he turns into a Kareem Hunt or Alvin Kamara type producer.

 

Not wanting to get into the he-said he-said back and forth

 

A couple of comments - for those who opine Shady should have been involved more in the passing game, as someone who spent too much time watching run plays last year to the detriment of my digestion (they were often kinda sickening) a lot of times on passing plays Shady's was to stay in and block, and not chip-and-release either.  We need an OL that can actually pass protect without TE and RB tree-props to be able to involve Shady in the passing game.

 

Shady is OK as a blocker - he tries - but he's no FredEx.  A number of plays where he was given the Ronstadt treatment (they "Blue Bayou").  If Gore is a better blocker, that will help a lot.

 

 

[BADOLBILZ]

50 minutes ago, H2o said:

You could see McCoy clearly still had his burst when he had lanes last year. The problem is he had no lanes, especially on the interior. McCoy is 30 and Gore is 35. Yes, I expect McCoy to easily beat out Gore for the starting role. But just like every other position on the team, it is always an open competition. I can't explain the misuse of Kenyan Drake in MIA. You'll have to ask googly eyes about that one. 

 

I disagree about the bolded.

 

He doesn't suddenly have cement in his shoes but that also wasn't the old McCoy.

 

Additionally NFL LB's have been getting consistently quicker and faster(and smaller) over the past 5-7 years.

 

Without numbers both takes are subjective though.

 

I look forward to the advancement of next gen stats that clear up these arguments about burst, quickness and speed though.

 

And he kept Drake off the field because he offered the same or better production running the ball and more intangibles when not.

 

Gore had a pretty impressive season.   Gase just isn't terribly committed to running the ball.  

 

 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

57 minutes ago, H2o said:

You could see McCoy clearly still had his burst when he had lanes last year. The problem is he had no lanes, especially on the interior. McCoy is 30 and Gore is 35. Yes, I expect McCoy to easily beat out Gore for the starting role. But just like every other position on the team, it is always an open competition. I can't explain the misuse of Kenyan Drake in MIA. You'll have to ask googly eyes about that one. 

 

I'm actually a bit unclear on this.  I can't tell if it was mental (discouragement about lack of lanes or trying to pick out what was developing out of a mess) but when he did have holes, he seemed to be a couple steps slower to hit them, and to get caught earlier.

 

We'll hope for the best.

[BADOLBILZ]

3 hours ago, teef said:

it's your world, and i'm living in it!

 

 

Or you could just support your take with some facts or something.   You're sarcasm is hurtful teef.   We're all pink inside.?

[ColoradoBills]

44 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

Yeah he will keep you on schedule going into second down more often than not.

 

The most important split though was the total carries......... 156 for Gore.........which was as exactly many as the Dolphins #2 and #3 RB's combined.

 

If that number seems low for being the clear cut #1 RB........it's because the Dolphins ranked 25th(23.2) in rushes per game.   Bills ranked 6th(29.2).

 

Fun fact:   Gore and McCoy combined for 68 carries and 286 yards in the Bills/Colts snow game in 2017.

 

I sure hope to see a lot more 2nd and 5 or 6's than what we have seen last year.

It will definitely open up Daboll's playbook.

I don't see Gore getting 150 rushes this year.

 

I'm totally speculating now but looking at things the way I see it now is this:

1st down - Frank Gore is the primary RB.

2nd down - Shady is the primary RB

3rd down - Situational, Yeldon in on 3rd and long is primary.

A mix with the rest of the situations. 

 

Also some 2 back sets without DiMarco in the equation because he won't be on the team.

Many will say the Shady is not worth being paid for a more situational role but I say it doesn't matter.

It's about JA having a potent running game this year.