UDFA class rankings (Rotoworld)

[hondo in seattle]

This is crazy.

 

NFL teams spend millions doing their due diligence on potential draft picks.  They employ teams of professional scouts, watch hours & hours of tape, interview countless coaches, attend dozens/hundreds of games, and sometimes hire private investigators.

High paid draft gurus in the media have trouble saying anything accurate about the early draft picks.  But Thor supposes he can fairly evaluate each team's haul of UDFAs!   

 

It's ludicrous.  His personal expertise and the resources he can tap pale in comparison to those of a NFL club.  Yet he has the hubris to hand out grades?   

Edited May 4, 2019 by hondo in seattle

[chris heff]

1 hour ago, mannc said:

You are grossly underestimating the role of UDFAs on NFL rosters.  In any given year, there are as many UDFAs on 53-man rosters as first and second round picks combined—an average of about 14 per team.  In the 2018 Super Bowl, one quarter of the players on the two rosters were undrafted.

So you are saying that on average 26% of a 53 man roster is UDFAs? That just seems high. 

 

"There is a trend to sign more street free agents or players who were on practice squads last year," Panthers general manager Marty Hurney said. "You might sign 15 undrafted free agents and only one or two make it. Often, you sign a bunch of undrafted players and you are letting them go before the start of training camp. Teams just aren't signing as many."

 

http://www.espn.com/nfl/columns/clayton_john/1547265.html

 

This would tend to dispute that.

Edited May 4, 2019 by chris heff

[mannc]

38 minutes ago, chris heff said:

So you are saying that on average 26% of a 53 man roster is UDFAs? That just seems high. 

 

"There is a trend to sign more street free agents or players who were on practice squads last year," Panthers general manager Marty Hurney said. "You might sign 15 undrafted free agents and only one or two make it. Often, you sign a bunch of undrafted players and you are letting them go before the start of training camp. Teams just aren't signing as many."

 

http://www.espn.com/nfl/columns/clayton_john/1547265.html

 

This would tend to dispute that.

The linked article is about 20 years old.  And it really doesn’t have much to say about the percentage of NFL team rosters that are comprised of UDFAs, even back then.

Edited May 4, 2019 by mannc

[Doc]

How many of those undrafted players are starters or even major contributors as back ups? 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

7 hours ago, YodaMan79 said:

And how many of these guys make a NFL roster?  My guess is 10 - 15%, tops.  They're now ranking meaningless crap like this?  Enough already.

 

4 hours ago, chris heff said:

I’m not sure that many make it to the NFL, but let’s say you’re correct. How many of these guys ever see the field? Much less have any impact.

 

This was hashed out recently in the UDFA Signings thread.  There are apparently a surprising # of UDFA playing in the NFL - about 480, as many as 1st and 2nd round picks combined.  Forbes had an article about it that's worth a read.  Kudos to @PromoTheRobot for finding and posting it.  Per that article, ~14% of NFL starters were UDFA.

For each team, that's about 2-4 players per year.  I think it makes sense that the UDFA guys may come in humble and work overtime, be ultra-coachable just for a shot on the roster.  Then there possibly isn't that big of a talent gap between the Day 3 guys and the UDFA, there's probably a big element of luck in terms of did a guy get a chance to catch a scout's eye and make an impression. 

So there's more of them - 10-15 per year vs 5-9 draft picks - if they stick at the rate of 2-3 per year, they can become a large part of the roster.

 

Also worth a read:  https://www.theplayerstribune.com/en-us/articles/danny-amendola-letter-to-undrafted

"Now that I’ve been around long enough, I can usually tell within a couple of days whether a young player has a future in the league or not. The first thing is ability, of course. It’s fine to be an amazing athlete, but to stick you have to be an amazing football player. That means truly knowing the game inside out. You have to approach football almost like an academic discipline. But that’s only part of it. It’s not enough.  It’s also about your approach. When you walk into that facility, do you act like you’re at work? Are you on time or are you early? Not most days, but every single day. Finally, can you listen? Truly listen. If a coach yells at you, are you paying attention to why he’s yelling or do you just shut down because he’s yelling? If your position coach tells the head coach or GM that you aren’t a player who listens or that you keep making the same mistake, you’re done. You are done. And your odds of getting a second chance won’t be great, because word spreads fast in this league."

 

 

[thurst44]

4 hours ago, Billzgobowlin said:

I think I saw a redraft recently with Robert Foster being drafted in the first round lol

I've seen two redrafts of 2018 -- both had Foster in the first, one of them had both Foster and Wallace (but that one did not have Edmunds in the first)...both also had Allen getting drafted 3rd (with Darnold going to the Giants).

[ColoradoBills]

Every team and every fan wants an UDFA to work out.  Some of them do every year.

BUT the idea of ranking teams in UDFA's just seems a little silly to me.

 

The better ones have a choice where to go and pick teams they got a chance of breaking into the roster.

Glad Beane and the boys got Sills.  Hope he plays well.

 

 

[Malazan]

20 hours ago, LSHMEAB said:

Don't like all the UB guys, but how in the world can you question this regime in the UDFA department after Foster/Wallace?

 

They've made a lot of "questionable" decisions, but I'll give them the benefit of the doubt here.

 

These rankings are meaningless. How in the world can you accurately gauge the true value of guys who weren't even drafted? 

 

You can't, but the purpose of the article isn't to do that. It's to get eyeballs and people talking about it which it seems to have done successfully.

[Steve O]

20 hours ago, njbuff said:

Now there are rankings for UDFA's that the 32 teams sign after the draft?

 

Oh joy.

Yeah, it's really tough to judge a UDFA class until 2-3 years later. There should be a "redoing the 2016 UDFA signings" article instead of trying to judge this years class?

[#34fan]

I like the UDFA class a lot... Sills may not make it, but he should make the practice squad easy... When I saw the Jets take Greg Dortch I was instantly jealous... He can be a formidable weapon in the slot, or even on KR... TE Keenen Brown is another one people should check the waiver wire for... Big nimble pass-catcher.

[H2o]

Aaaaaaand 0 's were actually given about roto's UDFA rankings. 

[Rock-A-Bye Beasley]

Lol at people criticizing the existence of a ranking like this.

 

Something tells me you wouldn’t be saying that if Bills were ranked #1. Have some self-awareness. 

[Doc]

4 minutes ago, Chemical said:

Lol at people criticizing the existence of a ranking like this.

 

Something tells me you wouldn’t be saying that if Bills were ranked #1. Have some self-awareness. 

 

Immediate draft grades are dumb.  This is even more stupid. 

 

Did Rotoworld grade the 2018 UDFA class?  If so, how did the Bills fare (realizing they ended-up getting 2 starters from it)?

[Rock-A-Bye Beasley]

54 minutes ago, Doc said:

 

Immediate draft grades are dumb.  This is even more stupid. 

 

Did Rotoworld grade the 2018 UDFA class?  If so, how did the Bills fare (realizing they ended-up getting 2 starters from it)?

 

I agree. What I’m saying is If the Bills were #1 on this list everyone would be saying “We win undrafted free agency again!” Instead of oointing our how pointless it is. 

[NoSaint]

On 5/3/2019 at 7:39 PM, njbuff said:

Now there are rankings for UDFA's that the 32 teams sign after the draft?

 

Oh joy.

 

This is the second post in a row where you seem not happy with being here. All good man? Do we need to coach you on not clicking things that upset you before you even click them?

[Doc]

9 hours ago, Chemical said:

I agree. What I’m saying is If the Bills were #1 on this list everyone would be saying “We win undrafted free agency again!” Instead of oointing our how pointless it is. 

 

Maybe a few would.  But again, it would be dumb.

[djp14150]

On 5/3/2019 at 8:50 PM, Brianmoorman4jesus said:

I wonder why the NFL doesnt just make the draft a few more rounds. They make an event out of everything. They could put rounds 8-10 on Sunday and own that whole week. I thought I saw somewhere that there are more undrafted players in the NFL then drafted. That shouldn’t happen and certainly doesn’t have to. Make the draft 10 rounds. It used to be a lot more anyway.

 

 

So that thise not drsfted srent wasted. 

 

In prior drsfts when when it was 10+ rounds not many came out late in the draft that mattered.  Players not drafted can figure out what team they have the best shot with.

[Brianmoorman4jesus]

16 minutes ago, djp14150 said:

 

 

So that thise not drsfted srent wasted. 

 

In prior drsfts when when it was 10+ rounds not many came out late in the draft that mattered.  Players not drafted can figure out what team they have the best shot with.

Obviously there is a lot of undraftet talent that ends up catching on after the draft. That tells me the draft is probably to short.