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9 hours ago, ColoradoBills said:

 

I don't understand the "get rid of Shady" stuff around here.  He has been very loyal to the Bills and I'm glad they are letting his contract

play out.  Now it's time for Shady to repay the Bills back for their loyalty. 

 

IF Shady has a resurgent year and tears it up a lot of people will have some "blackbird" to eat.

 

Thanks for the post.  By the way, when was this?

 

 

McCoy has been loyal to the Bills because they tacked on $26M+ in guarantees to his EXISTING Eagles contract just as he ceased to be a workhorse.

 

They bought a 310 carry guy and he's been a 220 carry guy since.    That's a huge drop but even then the workload was more than he could handle while remaining consistently effective.    He had a monster ypc year in 2016 in a crazy productive rush offense but otherwise has been below league average per carry overall as a Bill.

 

AND hey also threw incentives onto his contract in 2017........when his Eagles deal wouldn't even have expired yet.

 

AND after a miserable season when most teams would have cut bait they chose to retain him at a very significant cap number for a RB.

 

In a cut-throat league like the NFL..........those kind of incentive$$$$$$$$$$$ will make anyone loyal.

 

As for eating crow........what kind of production exactly do you expect?   Having a hard time believing anyone thinks he's going to go off for 1200 rushing yards again.    And the team would be dumb to overuse him if they are hoping to make the playoffs.........he was literally carted off the field to end his regular season in 3 of 4 years in Buffalo.    Keep him fresh and productive.   Regardless of what they are paying him they need to meter his usage.

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1 hour ago, HappyDays said:

 

This was not just a roster turnaround. It was an entire organizational turnaround from top to bottom. 5 years ago the Bills were a laughingstock. Players didn't want to get drafted here and we stayed well below the salary cap at all times. Our scouting department was cheap. McDermott and Beane inherited a total mess and turned it into a real NFL organization. Credit to Pegula as well for spending money on the right things and changing the way the team is seen by players around the league.

 

All that being said this is the money year. Anything less than 9 wins will be a disappointment.

 

But an organizational turnaround is.... normal. Incredibly normal for a new hire to bring in their own people and structures.

 

Which is is kind of my point.

 

doing normal GM stuff is getting him labeled genius and fans to some degree making up all kinds of narratives to support it and saying things like he should get years more to keep building. The other day there was debate of a 5 year pass before expecting playoffs.

 

ill also admit that I grow weary of the 2 sided “never spent to the cap” and “needs 2 years to get out of cap hell.” Frankly, he decided to crush an otherwise fine cap situation because of prioritizing 110% buy in over league high dead money.

 

like I said - he’s done some promising things, and flubbed some others. So far a pretty standard issue GM but I think the “unified voice” is carrying a bit too much weight in the evaluation simply because it was such a weakness previously (kind of like after Bledsoe we love mobility, after Trent we needed a gunslinger, etc...)

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1 hour ago, NoSaint said:

 

Thats 30 years ago though! The thing that worries me is the league has changed drastically. There are few fan bases that would embrace the slow build in an era designed for fast turnarounds. That you are referencing you know good football decisions from seeing a team building effort in the late 80s is indicative of a fan base that is out of touch with good football decisions 3 decades later.  Bills fans often seem isolated from the wider league and have just been stuck under the Tom Brady shadow for so long that many haven’t been involved in the norms of how quickly even good teams are churning rosters.

 

I think he has been hot and cold in his decisions, much like any GM - but boy has he NAILED the messaging for Buffalo bills fans. 

 

I liked the youth in the draft room. I think they see where were are going, and focus less on where we have been. Have a vision, and make it happen. 

 

That's my prayer. 

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He didn't talk about the "it factor"??

 

Opportunity lost.

2 hours ago, NoSaint said:

 

Thats 30 years ago though! The thing that worries me is the league has changed drastically. There are few fan bases that would embrace the slow build in an era designed for fast turnarounds. That you are referencing you know good football decisions from seeing a team building effort in the late 80s is indicative of a fan base that is out of touch with good football decisions 3 decades later.  Bills fans often seem isolated from the wider league and have just been stuck under the Tom Brady shadow for so long that many haven’t been involved in the norms of how quickly even good teams are churning rosters.

 

I think he has been hot and cold in his decisions, much like any GM - but boy has he NAILED the messaging for Buffalo bills fans. 

 

 

NoSaint, too, nails it again.  

 

This is spot on analysis of much of this place.

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2 hours ago, NoSaint said:

 

Thats 30 years ago though! The thing that worries me is the league has changed drastically. There are few fan bases that would embrace the slow build in an era designed for fast turnarounds. That you are referencing you know good football decisions from seeing a team building effort in the late 80s is indicative of a fan base that is out of touch with good football decisions 3 decades later.  Bills fans often seem isolated from the wider league and have just been stuck under the Tom Brady shadow for so long that many haven’t been involved in the norms of how quickly even good teams are churning rosters.

 

I think he has been hot and cold in his decisions, much like any GM - but boy has he NAILED the messaging for Buffalo bills fans. 

What hasn't changed in 30 years though is the definition of the word "good". Good is when you go to 4 straight Super Bowls regardless of decade. "Not good" is when you don't go a playoff game in 17 years! When you try to redefine "good" by qualifying  "building effort" in different decades or in terms of fan bases "out of touch with good football decisions" doesn't work. Its pretty simple the word "good" . . . in any decade, on any team, with any fan base, with any players, in any division etc. I chose my words carefully...... they were "good" then and maybe on the horizon now.

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44 minutes ago, Augie said:

 

I liked the youth in the draft room. I think they see where were are going, and focus less on where we have been. Have a vision, and make it happen. 

 

That's my prayer. 

 

I don’t disagree and have some optimism. Ultimately, if we got the right josh, it cures a lot of ills. We are past the rebuild window now though and the expectation needs to be at least a conference championship game in the next 2 seasons and really a solid playoff season both years. Short of that’s a disappointment. I don’t see many pushing those types of expectations though.

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58 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

McCoy has been loyal to the Bills because they tacked on $26M+ in guarantees to his EXISTING Eagles contract just as he ceased to be a workhorse.

 

They bought a 310 carry guy and he's been a 220 carry guy since.    That's a huge drop but even then the workload was more than he could handle while remaining consistently effective.    He had a monster ypc year in 2016 in a crazy productive rush offense but otherwise has been below league average per carry overall as a Bill.

 

AND hey also threw incentives onto his contract in 2017........when his Eagles deal wouldn't even have expired yet.

 

AND after a miserable season when most teams would have cut bait they chose to retain him at a very significant cap number for a RB.

 

In a cut-throat league like the NFL..........those kind of incentive$$$$$$$$$$$ will make anyone loyal.

 

As for eating crow........what kind of production exactly do you expect?   Having a hard time believing anyone thinks he's going to go off for 1200 rushing yards again.    And the team would be dumb to overuse him if they are hoping to make the playoffs.........he was literally carted off the field to end his regular season in 3 of 4 years in Buffalo.    Keep him fresh and productive.   Regardless of what they are paying him they need to meter his usage.

 

Yes it's a cut-throat league but Beane and McDermott are new to it and are proving that their way of looking at it has exceptions.

THEY was Whaley.  If you want to debate the merits of Shady's contract it's about him and not Beane.

If McDermott and Beane wanted to throw Shady out with the bath water they had plenty of chances.

 

They  (Beane and McDermott) apparently wish to keep some of the old contract players on the team.

When I said Shady was loyal I meant he was a team player helping them have players buy into the system along

with continuing be a spokesman for the new front office.  He was the biggest named player that hey kept on offense.

 

A resurgent year to me does not have Shady running 200+ times.  He needs to be part of a new combination running

scheme and to achieve a YPC/YPR of his former self but in a more limited role.

 

I'll wait to see how it works out in this new RB field.  I am very cap conscious and know the savings/picks they could of had by

dealing him off last year or even the year before.  They stuck with him for a reason.

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13 hours ago, NoSaint said:

 

Thats 30 years ago though! The thing that worries me is the league has changed drastically. There are few fan bases that would embrace the slow build in an era designed for fast turnarounds. That you are referencing you know good football decisions from seeing a team building effort in the late 80s is indicative of a fan base that is out of touch with good football decisions 3 decades later.  Bills fans often seem isolated from the wider league and have just been stuck under the Tom Brady shadow for so long that many haven’t been involved in the norms of how quickly even good teams are churning rosters.

 

I think he has been hot and cold in his decisions, much like any GM - but boy has he NAILED the messaging for Buffalo bills fans. 

So what quick turn around that required finding a franchise QB have you seen lately that has resulted in sustained success.

NE

Seattle

NO

 

All built over time and maintained.

10 hours ago, ColoradoBills said:

 

Yes it's a cut-throat league but Beane and McDermott are new to it and are proving that their way of looking at it has exceptions.

THEY was Whaley.  If you want to debate the merits of Shady's contract it's about him and not Beane.

If McDermott and Beane wanted to throw Shady out with the bath water they had plenty of chances.

 

They  (Beane and McDermott) apparently wish to keep some of the old contract players on the team.

When I said Shady was loyal I meant he was a team player helping them have players buy into the system along

with continuing be a spokesman for the new front office.  He was the biggest named player that hey kept on offense.

 

A resurgent year to me does not have Shady running 200+ times.  He needs to be part of a new combination running

scheme and to achieve a YPC/YPR of his former self but in a more limited role.

 

I'll wait to see how it works out in this new RB field.  I am very cap conscious and know the savings/picks they could of had by

dealing him off last year or even the year before.  They stuck with him for a reason.

It was also said from the beginning his career would be extended because he wouldnt have to carry the load.

 

Only one time has anyone said he was gonna be a workhorse back and they are gone.

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10 hours ago, ColoradoBills said:

 

Yes it's a cut-throat league but Beane and McDermott are new to it and are proving that their way of looking at it has exceptions.

THEY was Whaley.  If you want to debate the merits of Shady's contract it's about him and not Beane.

If McDermott and Beane wanted to throw Shady out with the bath water they had plenty of chances.

 

They  (Beane and McDermott) apparently wish to keep some of the old contract players on the team.

When I said Shady was loyal I meant he was a team player helping them have players buy into the system along

with continuing be a spokesman for the new front office.  He was the biggest named player that hey kept on offense.

 

A resurgent year to me does not have Shady running 200+ times.  He needs to be part of a new combination running

scheme and to achieve a YPC/YPR of his former self but in a more limited role.

 

I'll wait to see how it works out in this new RB field.  I am very cap conscious and know the savings/picks they could of had by

dealing him off last year or even the year before.  They stuck with him for a reason.

 

 

1)   THEY was also McBeane.........McBeane tacked on incentives to his already fat contract prior to the 2017 season to keep him on board with the controversial "process".    $$$$$ keeps Shady loyal.   Not saying he's not a good teammate but if he were playing out the end of the Eagles contract in 2017 as scheduled he would have been b*tching.    Unless the NFL turns back into a running league Shady may go down as the ONLY RB to ever double-dip on a lucrative contract and McBeane TACKED ON to that.   Also culpable.

 

2)  Yeah short of a return to his predicted greatness..........which would require well over 200+ carries...........he's going to have to be unreal on a per touch basis to justify the base salary.    That's kinda' off the table now.  Not happening.  So while I would HOPE that he puts up closer to 5ypc than 3ypc this time I don't think anyone is going to have to eat crow over a 150-175 carry RB.   It's not like he's going to become a goal line RB and put up 12 TD's either.   If he were playing for the vet minimum like Peterson last year then maybe it could be a triumphant crow-serving comeback but under these circumstances let's just hope for "more productive than last year".:thumbsup:

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12 minutes ago, formerlyofCtown said:

 

It was also said from the beginning his career would be extended because he wouldnt have to carry the load.

 

Only one time has anyone said he was gonna be a workhorse back and they are gone.

 

 

Not sure where you got that from........sounds made up.

 

He carried the Ball well over 600 times his last two years in Philly.    

 

I haven't heard much about extending his career in Buffalo by lessening the workload...........if not for a litany of leg injuries they'd have been feeding him close to 300 carries each year.   Even with Karlos and Gillislee..........they got most of their carries when he was injured.

 

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It all sounds good... but as people pointed out... keeping Shady nullifies what he said. Actions speak louder than words.

 

They got rid of Watkins and Dareus. McCoy is a $$$ first player like them, and a giant douch-nozzle.

 

I will cheer if he does something good to benefit the Bills, but not him personally. I would rather have gotten a 5th round. I wouldn't be opposed to just having the extra cap space.

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2 hours ago, formerlyofCtown said:

So what quick turn around that required finding a franchise QB have you seen lately that has resulted in sustained success.

NE

Seattle

NO

 

All built over time and maintained.

It was also said from the beginning his career would be extended because he wouldnt have to carry the load.

 

Only one time has anyone said he was gonna be a workhorse back and they are gone.

 

Year 3 Seattle: 11-5 with 2 point loss in the divisional round, second playoff appearance. 

 

Year 1 Nola: 10-6 and lost in nfccg, year 4 super bowl champions 

 

My point being that our window is here regardless of if josh is great (as indicated by the many flashes in the pan like San Fran, for instance). If he flames out it won’t be sustained, but if he can carry a team then yes we will be in a constant cycle of immediately refreshing and reloading like those long term successful teams. 

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1 hour ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

1)   THEY was also McBeane.........McBeane tacked on incentives to his already fat contract prior to the 2017 season to keep him on board with the controversial "process".    $$$$$ keeps Shady loyal.   Not saying he's not a good teammate but if he were playing out the end of the Eagles contract in 2017 as scheduled he would have been b*tching.    Unless the NFL turns back into a running league Shady may go down as the ONLY RB to ever double-dip on a lucrative contract and McBeane TACKED ON to that.   Also culpable.

 

2)  Yeah short of a return to his predicted greatness..........which would require well over 200+ carries...........he's going to have to be unreal on a per touch basis to justify the base salary.    That's kinda' off the table now.  Not happening.  So while I would HOPE that he puts up closer to 5ypc than 3ypc this time I don't think anyone is going to have to eat crow over a 150-175 carry RB.   It's not like he's going to become a goal line RB and put up 12 TD's either.   If he were playing for the vet minimum like Peterson last year then maybe it could be a triumphant crow-serving comeback but under these circumstances let's just hope for "more productive than last year".:thumbsup:

 

Ah, you are right about the incentive package.  You won't get me disagreeing that Shady is getting paid more right now than even his

perceived performance can be.  I get the feeling this will be the last year we will see Beane pay this much for a RB for a long time.

He has been arguably is the only player on offense that can even remotely be categorized as a weapon and defenses have played accordingly.

 

If you were a defensive coordinator I would think your #1 goal has been to control Shady and then to rush our less than adequate QBs the Bills

fielded over the last number of years.  I'm sure OBD is aware of that.

 

All that being said they choose to keep him and I guess if he can get 1,200 or so combined rushing/receiving yards it still won't be

"worth the money" to many but to me (and I think McDermott and Beane too) I feel having Shady takes some of the burden off Josh Allen.

IMO having Shady one more year in the backfield outweighs a future 5th round pick and adding a JAG as a RB.

 

My eating crow comment was more directed at the individuals commenting that Shady is completely washed up.  I don't think he is.

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On 5/3/2019 at 11:16 AM, AtlBills said:

My brother, a club seat ticket holder, was invited to attend a meeting with other premium seat holders to dinner and a meet and greet with GM Beane.  He came away totally impressed with the entire evening and  especially Mr Beane, his knowledge, insight , humor, and passion for our franchise and its fans and community.  He covered many topics but two things my brother said really stood out.

First, he came in with a plan  on how he and his staff and coaches were going to set a course, right the ship and get the franchise back to championship caliber football. The first two years were as we all know to get our cap situation in order, purge the roster of players they felt didn't fit the "New Culture Bills", and get the players in  that fit their mold,  smart, physical, team first. He feels that after 2 yrs they are finally on the right path to success. Said they are now in position to start "the climb up the hill" as a team with a clear vision and purpose. Thank God we finally have a front office that sees success as a process and not quick fixes.

 

Second,  he was asked about Shady's status going into  the season. He was vey frank and said that the public had no idea what Shady went through last season with his personal life regading his girlfriend and all the allegations she charged him with. He laid it all out to management and said he was  totally innocent of all the accusations. Everyone stuck by him!  He also  mentioned the o-line and how his season was effected by a suspect line. He feels he definitely has gas in the tank and is going to be part of the plan this year.  My opinion of Shady has changed.

 

We have been Season ticket holders since 1986, the signing of Jim Kelly. I can honestly say for the first time in many years I am actually very excited and optomistic about the direction of our Bills and the upcoming Season!! Go Bills, God Bless Pancho Billa!!

 

You mean the press conference where Doug talked up EJ Manuel was better than this?

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On 5/3/2019 at 11:16 AM, AtlBills said:

My brother, a club seat ticket holder, was invited to attend a meeting with other premium seat holders to dinner and a meet and greet with GM Beane.  He came away totally impressed with the entire evening and  especially Mr Beane, his knowledge, insight , humor, and passion for our franchise and its fans and community.  He covered many topics but two things my brother said really stood out.

First, he came in with a plan  on how he and his staff and coaches were going to set a course, right the ship and get the franchise back to championship caliber football. The first two years were as we all know to get our cap situation in order, purge the roster of players they felt didn't fit the "New Culture Bills", and get the players in  that fit their mold,  smart, physical, team first. He feels that after 2 yrs they are finally on the right path to success. Said they are now in position to start "the climb up the hill" as a team with a clear vision and purpose. Thank God we finally have a front office that sees success as a process and not quick fixes.

 

Second,  he was asked about Shady's status going into  the season. He was vey frank and said that the public had no idea what Shady went through last season with his personal life regading his girlfriend and all the allegations she charged him with. He laid it all out to management and said he was  totally innocent of all the accusations. Everyone stuck by him!  He also  mentioned the o-line and how his season was effected by a suspect line. He feels he definitely has gas in the tank and is going to be part of the plan this year.  My opinion of Shady has changed.

 

We have been Season ticket holders since 1986, the signing of Jim Kelly. I can honestly say for the first time in many years I am actually very excited and optomistic about the direction of our Bills and the upcoming Season!! Go Bills, God Bless Pancho Billa!!

 

 

Thank you for sharing.  I look forward to see what Shady can do behind what should be a much improved O-line.

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36 minutes ago, NoSaint said:

 

Year 3 Seattle: 11-5 with 2 point loss in the divisional round, second playoff appearance. 

 

Year 1 Nola: 10-6 and lost in nfccg, year 4 super bowl champions 

 

My point being that our window is here regardless of if josh is great (as indicated by the many flashes in the pan like San Fran, for instance). If he flames out it won’t be sustained, but if he can carry a team then yes we will be in a constant cycle of immediately refreshing and reloading like those long term successful teams. 

I think their goal is being achieved.  We will have a big turn around and things will come together by week 8.  And next year we will start the season at 19th in the power rankings even if we win the SB.

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16 hours ago, folz said:

Besides still having something left in the tank, as many of us have argued about Shady, the reason you keep him around is because he has become a team leader.

He's never going to be a Kyle Williams-type of leader, that's not his personality. But, for a guy that at times in his career may have been perceived as a bit of a selfish guy

(right or wrong), he has turned it around in Buffalo: voted a team captain, quickly built a great relationship with Josh, didn't complain about the team or line last year,

and even when he was injured and the Bills had no shot at the playoffs, he was a great cheerleader...still involved in the game, running out to celebrate with players when

they made a great play, etc. It is really important for the best players on your team to be totally bought in. And Shady is.

 

First year in Buffalo, Shady obviously wasn't thrilled to be here. Going into his second year, he accepted his situation and started to like Buffalo and rededicated himself to the team and the process. But for me, I feel like there was one moment when Shady became a true Buffalo guy. (I may be mythologizing this a bit, but whatever.) It was his overtime TD for the win in the snow game. He scored the TD with his momentum carrying him towards the wall of the stands. But he stopped himself short of the wall and kind of just waved to the crowd (like there was still a literal and emotional distance between him and the fans---it was like he wanted to run over and embrace them, but didn't quite know how). Then his teammates mauled him, pushing him towards the fans and then the players and fans celebrated like mad with Shady in the middle of it all. I always feel like that was the moment that the last of Shady's walls fell and he became a true Buffalo guy. 

 

And I love McDermott as a coach (perfect guy for Buffalo), but one of the best things about hiring him was that he brought Brandon Beane with him. Beane is worth his weight in gold. To finally have a competent front office feels soooo good.

 

I just went back to look at that sequence with McCoy and the game winning run and you are right. It was Nick O’Leary that basically push McCoy into the stands like “ don’t be scared go get that love” The celebration afterward with the fans cheering and throwing snow in the air brought me to tears.

 

No way in hell that another fan base cares about their team more than the BILLS. And don’t give me that crap about there nothing else to do here because that just cop out for not admitting that it’s GO BILLS

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