BigBuff423 Posted May 1, 2019 Share Posted May 1, 2019 The below stat line is from a well known QB in his Rookie year who received a great deal of attention and his team played very well. Games: Att: Comp: Perct: Att/G: Yds: Avg: Yds/G: TD: TD%: INT: INT%: Long: 20+: 40+: Sck: SckY: Rate: 14 295 196 66.4 21.1 2,621 8.9 187.2 17 5.8 11 3.7 58 43 7 30 213 98.1 Now, we have Josh Allen's Rookie year. Games: Att: Comp: Perct: Att/G: Yds: Avg: Yds/G: TD: TD%: INT: INT%: Long: 20+: 40+: Sck: SckY: Rate: 12 320 169 52.8 26.7 2,074 6.5 172.8 10 3.1 12 3.8 75T 30 5 28 213 67.9 As you may be able to tell, the first Rookie QB had about an "average" year for a QB which was some years ago, but he had one of the NFL's best Defenses, a future HOF Running back and two very good WRs at the time. Additionally, he had an established Offensive line and he didn't get injured. Now, I didn't account for the running aspect of Josh Allen's game, and it wasn't prominent for the first Rookie QB so it seemed to be apples and oranges for comparison's sake but Josh's ability to evade, escape and run is part of his allure in his Rookie year but he will need to get much better staying behind the LOS as a QB. There are some notable differences in stats, but the first Rookie QB was named AP NFL Offensive Rookie of the Year and took his team to the playoffs. When I look at the first Rookie QB who had a HOF running back, two very good WRs and a dominant Defense, along with starting the last 14 games of his Rookie season without injury and Offensive line problems, I see the upside in Josh Allen. I think most of us are on that train, but the first Rookie QB is Ben Roethlisberger. This board has gone over and over the drops by WRs / TEs and the lack of a running game and given how similar Ben and Josh Allen are in terms of arm talent and size, it seemed helpful to put these two side by side because this year, the Bills Defense should have no excuses and I expect them to produce; this year the Offensive line won't be the whipping boy for reasons the Offense can't move the ball and this year, WRs dropping balls shouldn't be a reason to not be putting up NFL passing numbers. In other words, while the jury is still out on Josh Allen, if we compare Big Ben and Josh in their development, the Steelers were at least one year ahead of their team composition and that this year, *COULD* look a lot like the Steelers' season in 2004, but with better passing production from Josh. This, to me just adds more reason for optimism. Hey, the Draft is over and mini-camp hasn't started yet....what else are we going to talk about? Go Bills! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TroutDog Posted May 1, 2019 Share Posted May 1, 2019 Always fun to do comparisons: thanks for taking the time. For myself, the most telling differences are the lack of supporting cast. Ben, having also gone to a smaller school, was far more proficient averaging nearly 66% in college. My hope is that Josh improves on his short game. Should he do so, he will be one of our best. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted May 1, 2019 Share Posted May 1, 2019 I knew it was Ben instantly. Obviously Ben had a better team around him but he had a better rookie year too. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark80 Posted May 1, 2019 Share Posted May 1, 2019 Honestly man, these stats aren't even close. Ben's season blew Josh's away. Sure, he may have had a better roster to work with, but his accuracy, yards per attempt, TD ratio, passer rating are all way above Josh's. Not exactly sure what you are going for here, but a stat comparison is not where you should have gone to compare him to Big Ben. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay_Fixit Posted May 1, 2019 Share Posted May 1, 2019 Those two seasons aren’t even close. I wish Josh had the Roethlisberger rookie numbers. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FeelingOnYouboty Posted May 1, 2019 Share Posted May 1, 2019 We should be looking at Mitch Trubisky v Josh Allen and hoping Josh Allen's second season takes a jump like Trubisky's did. If it does we're a playoff team. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted May 1, 2019 Share Posted May 1, 2019 44 minutes ago, BigBuff423 said: The below stat line is from a well known QB in his Rookie year who received a great deal of attention and his team played very well. Games: Att: Comp: Perct: Att/G: Yds: Avg: Yds/G: TD: TD%: INT: INT%: Long: 20+: 40+: Sck: SckY: Rate: 14 295 196 66.4 21.1 2,621 8.9 187.2 17 5.8 11 3.7 58 43 7 30 213 98.1 Now, we have Josh Allen's Rookie year. Games: Att: Comp: Perct: Att/G: Yds: Avg: Yds/G: TD: TD%: INT: INT%: Long: 20+: 40+: Sck: SckY: Rate: 12 320 169 52.8 26.7 2,074 6.5 172.8 10 3.1 12 3.8 75T 30 5 28 213 67.9 As you may be able to tell, the first Rookie QB had about an "average" year for a QB which was some years ago, but he had one of the NFL's best Defenses, a future HOF Running back and two very good WRs at the time. Additionally, he had an established Offensive line and he didn't get injured. Now, I didn't account for the running aspect of Josh Allen's game, and it wasn't prominent for the first Rookie QB so it seemed to be apples and oranges for comparison's sake but Josh's ability to evade, escape and run is part of his allure in his Rookie year but he will need to get much better staying behind the LOS as a QB. There are some notable differences in stats, but the first Rookie QB was named AP NFL Offensive Rookie of the Year and took his team to the playoffs. When I look at the first Rookie QB who had a HOF running back, two very good WRs and a dominant Defense, along with starting the last 14 games of his Rookie season without injury and Offensive line problems, I see the upside in Josh Allen. I think most of us are on that train, but the first Rookie QB is Ben Roethlisberger. This board has gone over and over the drops by WRs / TEs and the lack of a running game and given how similar Ben and Josh Allen are in terms of arm talent and size, it seemed helpful to put these two side by side because this year, the Bills Defense should have no excuses and I expect them to produce; this year the Offensive line won't be the whipping boy for reasons the Offense can't move the ball and this year, WRs dropping balls shouldn't be a reason to not be putting up NFL passing numbers. In other words, while the jury is still out on Josh Allen, if we compare Big Ben and Josh in their development, the Steelers were at least one year ahead of their team composition and that this year, *COULD* look a lot like the Steelers' season in 2004, but with better passing production from Josh. This, to me just adds more reason for optimism. Hey, the Draft is over and mini-camp hasn't started yet....what else are we going to talk about? Go Bills! Alongside the “why did josh go top ten and the UB kid not get drafted” thread, a blind stars comparison amused me 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloHokie13 Posted May 1, 2019 Share Posted May 1, 2019 The league has changed a lot in the last 15 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeHateMe Posted May 1, 2019 Share Posted May 1, 2019 Man Josh as a long way to go to even reach Ben's rookie season completion percentage. He was super efficient that season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebandit27 Posted May 1, 2019 Share Posted May 1, 2019 24 minutes ago, FeelingOnYouboty said: We should be looking at Mitch Trubisky v Josh Allen and hoping Josh Allen's second season takes a jump like Trubisky's did. If it does we're a playoff team. Josh vs. Mitch vs. Goff as rookies. In general, they're all very similar, though Allen arguably made the most of his situation in comparison to the other two, which isn't all that surprising considering that he's got more physical ability than them. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PetermansRedemption Posted May 1, 2019 Share Posted May 1, 2019 Those completion percentages aren’t even in the same ball park. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhickedWilliams Posted May 1, 2019 Share Posted May 1, 2019 12 minutes ago, HeHateMe said: Man Josh as a long way to go to even reach Ben's rookie season completion percentage. He was super efficient that season. Didn’t get any help from all the dropped balls 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloBillies Posted May 1, 2019 Share Posted May 1, 2019 Should have included the rushing aspect. Ben: 144 yds, 1 TD Josh: 631 yds, 8 TDs (in 2 less games) 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
badassgixxer05 Posted May 1, 2019 Share Posted May 1, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, Mark80 said: Honestly man, these stats aren't even close. Ben's season blew Josh's away. Sure, he may have had a better roster to work with, but his accuracy, yards per attempt, TD ratio, passer rating are all way above Josh's. Not exactly sure what you are going for here, but a stat comparison is not where you should have gone to compare him to Big Ben. Maybe he was trying to point out that JA on that Pitt team would have done well?? We will see this year what he can do when not running for life. Side note: tired of hearing about completion %. JA isnt a dink and donk QB. Hes a gunslinger that is going to chuck the rock down the field. In effect will yield lower %. Brett Farve was a pretty dang good QB(prob the best gunslinger of all time) that never dazzled anyone with a fancy league leading completion percentage... Edited May 1, 2019 by badassgixxer05 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProcessAccepted Posted May 1, 2019 Share Posted May 1, 2019 1 hour ago, Mark80 said: Honestly man, these stats aren't even close. Ben's season blew Josh's away. Sure, he may have had a better roster to work with, but his accuracy, yards per attempt, TD ratio, passer rating are all way above Josh's. Not exactly sure what you are going for here, but a stat comparison is not where you should have gone to compare him to Big Ben. This is the one thing that confounds me. "Sure he may have had a better roster to work with but..." Why do poeple give Josh Rosen a pass in Arizona but not Josh Allen. How many games did we win because of Josh Allen despite the horrible OL and below average receiving corp. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FeelingOnYouboty Posted May 1, 2019 Share Posted May 1, 2019 30 minutes ago, thebandit27 said: Josh vs. Mitch vs. Goff as rookies. In general, they're all very similar, though Allen arguably made the most of his situation in comparison to the other two, which isn't all that surprising considering that he's got more physical ability than them. Thing that they had going for them is their HC are pretty good offensive coaches. I like Daboll though but if our 2019 season looks like the second half and Allen impresses he's going to be a HC for someone next year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DallasMac Posted May 1, 2019 Share Posted May 1, 2019 13 minutes ago, ProcessAccepted said: This is the one thing that confounds me. "Sure he may have had a better roster to work with but..." Why do poeple give Josh Rosen a pass in Arizona but not Josh Allen. How many games did we win because of Josh Allen despite the horrible OL and below average receiving corp. I thinks its because when you look at Allen's numbers they are kind of what a lot of ppl expected when he came out. Low comp% and td to int ratio. They just see that and think their opinions were justified. If they actually watched him play they'd be saying different things and this is exemplified by what Mel Kiper said the other day when asked about which Afc east Qb they'd be talking about in 5 years. He said Allen over Darnold and even gave examples. You can tell which of these "experts" have actually watched him play. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark80 Posted May 1, 2019 Share Posted May 1, 2019 24 minutes ago, ProcessAccepted said: This is the one thing that confounds me. "Sure he may have had a better roster to work with but..." Why do poeple give Josh Rosen a pass in Arizona but not Josh Allen. How many games did we win because of Josh Allen despite the horrible OL and below average receiving corp. Not saying I don't like Josh or don't think he's going to be a great player very, very soon. I'm just saying comparing his and Big Ben's rookie year utilizing a statistical comparison is not the way to go since they are vastly different numbers. That's all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwksilver Posted May 1, 2019 Share Posted May 1, 2019 I don't care what the #s were. You can make an argument both were successful seasons. Let's wait till end of the season and compare this year's #s. The Bills have improved this offseason and I look forward to JA improving as well (hopefully by leaps and bounds). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted May 1, 2019 Share Posted May 1, 2019 30 minutes ago, ProcessAccepted said: This is the one thing that confounds me. "Sure he may have had a better roster to work with but..." Why do poeple give Josh Rosen a pass in Arizona but not Josh Allen. How many games did we win because of Josh Allen despite the horrible OL and below average receiving corp. I think the opposite on this board. People here make excuses for Allen and write Rosen off as a bust. That is to be expected on a Bills board. Both had awful situations - both struggled as passers as a result - JA did more to help his team win games with his athleticism and running ability. Neither was even in the ball park of Big Ben as a rookie. At the time Ben's was one of THE best rookie QB seasons in history. As the league has changed since it has been overtaken but for his time it was a pretty incredible effort. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts