Rockee96 Posted April 30, 2019 Share Posted April 30, 2019 Hi everyone, I've been following this board for 20+ years and usually don't post much, but I wanted your thoughts on something... I watched some game tapes from last year, and I noticed that Josh often underthrows his slant passes. Watch the last Miami game - he underthrew almost every slant throw. Do you see the same thing? Do you think this can be corrected? I think he can make all the other throws, but he seems to struggle consistently with the slant. Thoughts? 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heavy Kevi Posted April 30, 2019 Share Posted April 30, 2019 Josh clearly struggles with regulating his power at times. It's like trying to shoot a bazooka at a bumblebee. My guess on the slants is he's afraid to overthrow over the middle and gift wrap an INT. 9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mykidsdad Posted April 30, 2019 Share Posted April 30, 2019 I see the same thing. I think on shorter throws he is over thinking and aiming because he can't let it RIP due to how overpowered he is. Hopefully the solution will be more reps, and he can make all of the throws from muscle memory. That's a big key for him this year. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Da webster guy Posted April 30, 2019 Share Posted April 30, 2019 Slants are timing based. More footwork based than anything. I remember a few being behind, but also remember Baker Mayfield missing some wide open slants as well. I think (and hope) its simply rookie growing pains, and improving is mostly a function of reps and more reps. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sven233 Posted April 30, 2019 Share Posted April 30, 2019 (edited) There's a reason those slant passes were not in the playbook very much, especially early in the season. The short, timing throws are the ones he has always struggled with the most in college. The thing is, when you have a bunch of speed WRs on the field that get off-coverage more times than not, these are throws that are necessary for him to hit 8 times out of 10. They are easy completions that are out there for the taking. Now, Allen had a few things working against him, especially early in the season. He was splitting reps with 2 other guys all camp, rarely working with the ones at all. So, it's hard to get those timing throws down with guys you don't get a chance to work with. It also doesn't help that there were WRs on this team, in featured positions at times, that were not good enough to be on an NFL field. Couple this with him focusing so much on his mechanics last off-season and the chance to improve going into the year was really diminished. HOWEVER........ Year 2? No excuses. My guess is that he has been working very hard on these kinds of throws all off-season. The coaches gave him a list of what they wanted him to work on and I can pretty much guarantee that his footwork, mechanics, and touch on these short, timing throws were at the top of the list. I expect him to be very much improved this season on these throws. Coupled with the work he his doing this off-season, being the unquestioned starter and working with the ones every day in camp on every route should allow him to improve on these throws heading into the season. We all knew he had a long way to go to be a great QB in this league when he was drafted. We knew it was probably going to be 2-3 years before we were able to see what he actually is. It's the reason why many, myself included, would have rather had Mayfield or Darnold coming out. It wasn't because of Allen's potential or talent. In fact, every time I said I didn't want us to draft him, I always made sure to say that i truly believed he had the potential to be the best QB in the draft class eventually. And that does remain true, but he still have a ways to go. However, Allen showed enough of a work ethic last season, and the desire to be better each week that with time, we are encouraged he will get to where we need him to be. If nothing else, he has a lot more talent around him this year thank last season. If he puts in the work, he should see the results, especially improving on these slants and other short, timing routes. We as fans are really excited about this year, as I think we should be. This team is talented enough now to compete with every team in the NFL. Not saying we are among the best, but we should never be truly outclassed by anyone on our schedule. If Allen is good, I'm not sure we should put a limit on where this team can go. If he's not.....well, let's hope we're not having that discussion this time next year. Edited May 1, 2019 by sven233 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LABILLBACKER Posted April 30, 2019 Share Posted April 30, 2019 I said this last year. It's the #1 part of his game he will have to work on. We all saw that game and every short slant was behind the wr. This is the throw Brady has turned into a masterpiece. You will have to work on this more than any other part of his game. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobbyC81 Posted April 30, 2019 Share Posted April 30, 2019 6 minutes ago, LABILLBACKER said: I said this last year. It's the #1 part of his game he will have to work on. We all saw that game and every short slant was behind the wr. This is the throw Brady has turned into a masterpiece. You will have to work on this more than any other part of his game. Especially when you’ve added Cole Beasley. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ganesh Posted April 30, 2019 Share Posted April 30, 2019 2 hours ago, Heavy Kevi said: Josh clearly struggles with regulating his power at times. It's like trying to shoot a bazooka at a bumblebee. My guess on the slants is he's afraid to overthrow over the middle and gift wrap an INT. Improve muscle memory via repetition Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HuSeYiN_NYC Posted April 30, 2019 Share Posted April 30, 2019 No need to panic... We'll be juuuuusssst fine... 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kmart128 Posted April 30, 2019 Share Posted April 30, 2019 Yeah that Miami game was bad. But when he threw behind the reciever on slants they actually had a tremendous out come. It would not surprise me one bit if Daboll sees that on film and creates like a fake slant route where the reciever goes for a slant then changes directions and Allen delivers a strike. It catches the defense running the wrong way. It's why Zay was able to find the end zone on a similar play. A great offensive mind will see that on tape and potentially come up with a new fad in the NFL. 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fansince88 Posted April 30, 2019 Share Posted April 30, 2019 (edited) As has been said above I'm sure this has been a focus since January. Also to the OP, what percentage of those were rushed throws? As in by the time he tried to throw the pass was he under pressure because our line didn't give him space to make the throw? Edited April 30, 2019 by fansince88 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CSBill Posted April 30, 2019 Share Posted April 30, 2019 11 minutes ago, fansince88 said: As has been said above I'm sure this has been a focus since January. Certainly! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsfan1959 Posted April 30, 2019 Share Posted April 30, 2019 6 hours ago, Rockee96 said: Hi everyone, I've been following this board for 20+ years and usually don't post much, but I wanted your thoughts on something... I watched some game tapes from last year, and I noticed that Josh often underthrows his slant passes. Watch the last Miami game - he underthrew almost every slant throw. Do you see the same thing? Do you think this can be corrected? I think he can make all the other throws, but he seems to struggle consistently with the slant. Thoughts? Allen threw 20 passes in the Miami game where the intended receiver was less than 10 yds form the LOS, completing 15 of 20 (75%). IMO, of those 20 passes, 14 (70% were accurate) 1 was a miscommunication and uncatchable, 2 were inaccurate and uncatchable, and 3 were inaccurate but catchable - so, 80% of his short throws were catchable. 5 of those were slants (completing 4 of 5). Of the five slants, he led the receiver on two (completions), was slightly behind on one (completion), and clearly behind on the other two one completion). I would say 2 of the five were not accurate throws. Honestly, if you broke down the games of every other QB, you would find inaccuracies with the vast majority of them similar with what we saw with Allen in the Miami game. Allen showed tremendous improvement in his short throws (screens, flares, slants, underneath patterns, etc) over the course of last year. It was never a feature of his game at Wyoming and he clearly needs to continue to work on it. However, I don't see his accuracy on slants or other short throws as a real problem, and I believe it will continue to improve with experience. IMO, Allen's "accuracy issues" are more a product of decision making. It is not a problem of completing the short throws as much as it is learning when to settle for the short throws. Allen looks for that big throw first and loves to live in that 15-25 yard range. When he learns when it is more advantageous to not throw downfield and settle for a shorter throw, his completion percentage will rise. I hope he improves in that area; however, I love that he looks for that big throw first. 10 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JESSEFEFFER Posted April 30, 2019 Share Posted April 30, 2019 I think there were 3 like that in the last game and two were caught, one for a TD by Jones. The DB was jumping the slant and Zay came to a complete stop, made the catch and pivoted up the sideline for the TD. It looked planned because it would be almost impossible to stop that quickly and still be there to catch the ball. The post game presser seemed to say it was not the plan. It worked so well maybe they should put that in the offense as a way to beat a DB trying to jump the slant route. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrEpsYtown Posted April 30, 2019 Share Posted April 30, 2019 I'm in the "blame the terrible receivers like Zay Jones" camp on this question. I feel like Allen tried to get too cute sometimes because his dudes can't catch. You have to zip that slant in there with some pretty good power, but knowing that guys weren't going to catch it may have made him take some zip off leading to those awkward throws. I hope that changes this year and some of these guys can catch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HansLanda Posted April 30, 2019 Share Posted April 30, 2019 8 hours ago, Da webster guy said: Slants are timing based. More footwork based than anything. I remember a few being behind, but also remember Baker Mayfield missing some wide open slants as well. I think (and hope) its simply rookie growing pains, and improving is mostly a function of reps and more reps. 100% re: timing. Not only is Allen going to just miss some of these from time to time, he also had a revolving door of WRs and I don't think they really ever got into a rhythm. These are throws Brady can make with his eyes closed to Edelman. Hopefully Cole gives Allen some level of competence with these routes this year. With Foster and Brown stretching the field on outside, it seems very likely there will be soft areas behind the LB's were Cole and Jones can eat! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ridgewaycynic2013 Posted April 30, 2019 Share Posted April 30, 2019 Here’s 25 cents. Give him Trent Edwards’ phone number. (Can you still get a phone call for a quarter? ?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Hindsight Posted April 30, 2019 Share Posted April 30, 2019 Slants are actually a pretty hard throw. I'm not that worried about Allen getting better tho. His game is much more on deep stuff than rhythm and timing. Let him do what he does best Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChattanoogaBills Posted April 30, 2019 Share Posted April 30, 2019 5 hours ago, Kmart128 said: Yeah that Miami game was bad. But when he threw behind the reciever on slants they actually had a tremendous out come. It would not surprise me one bit if Daboll sees that on film and creates like a fake slant route where the reciever goes for a slant then changes directions and Allen delivers a strike. It catches the defense running the wrong way. It's why Zay was able to find the end zone on a similar play. A great offensive mind will see that on tape and potentially come up with a new fad in the NFL. For the first time ever i saw the back shoulder slant thrown twice in that game. Zay scored on the first one. And got good yac on the second. So Josh Allen invented the back shoulder slant pass. Josh Allen continues to do things ive never seen a nfl qb do before. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebandit27 Posted April 30, 2019 Share Posted April 30, 2019 It's a good observation, and yes, he definitely had issues in the Miami game. I attributed the first Zay Jones TD to the idea that he might've been trying to make a safe throw away from the breaking DB, but overall he still had some issues with placement on slants. It's not so much about ability to be accurate, but a continuation of a theme I hammered on during my draft evaluation: he loses significant placement ability when he rushes his outside throws. When it comes to throwing inside the numbers, he seems to be able to speed up his process without losing much precision. I believe it's a correctable issue, but definitely something to keep an eye on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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