The impending question mark/void on our team NEXT offseason

[LSHMEAB]

5 hours ago, BullBuchanan said:

They should approach DE next season like they approached OL this season. Bring in 6 of em and draft a couple and see who shakes out. I have a strong feeling Murphy won't be a part of that plan, and at his price, probably not lawson either.

The reason I disagree with this is because we have a chance to really put something together for the next two seasons and this is the no QB contract window. Why not go into this season with a DOMINANT defensive line?

 

Let's say the offense doesn't improve as much as we'd like; if you've got a dominant front four, that can mask offensive deficiencies. We had a good to very good defense last season. Imagine one able to impose their will. You eliminate blowouts like at the Ravens and at the Colts. The Bears game was odd in that they didn't rack up a ton of yards, but we STILL couldn't get stops in the red zone. 

 

A dominant front four is not going to rank near the bottom of the league in RZ defense and turnovers. It's gonna shoot to the top. 

 

I can see the rationale in putting it off for a season, but I'd like to think we're in win now mode. Agree that Murphy won't be part of the plan, but I also have no faith in Lawson. He's an edge setter and a 3-4 DE. We've already got Star "taking up space." You upgrade that end position opposite Hughes and it's potentially lights out for opposing QB's.

Edited April 29, 2019 by LSHMEAB

[JohnBonhamRocks]

2 hours ago, transplantbillsfan said:

 

Eh, you don't really need a true number one WR nowadays in the NFL, as long as the rest of your WRs are decent.

 

With the addition of Brown and Beasly and Foster coming on strong in the 2nd half of the season last year, I think our WR group might end up being pretty good.  Hopefully Jones gets better, too.  Beane sure seems to have a good deal of confidence in him.

 

Agreed. You trot out a 4WR set of Foster, Brown, Beasley, and Jones, and one of those guys at the very least should be able to school another team’s CB4. It’s all about match-ups. Calvin Johnson was an incredible WR1, but how many rings did he retire with? Did Brady win the Super Bowl with Moss or Edelman?

[Dkollidas]

I think edge rusher and receiver will be the big ones. I think Hughes gets re-signed though. 

[BullBuchanan]

1 hour ago, LSHMEAB said:

The reason I disagree with this is because we have a chance to really put something together for the next two seasons and this is the no QB contract window. Why not go into this season with a DOMINANT defensive line?

 

Let's say the offense doesn't improve as much as we'd like; if you've got a dominant front four, that can mask offensive deficiencies. We had a good to very good defense last season. Imagine one able to impose their will. You eliminate blowouts like at the Ravens and at the Colts. The Bears game was odd in that they didn't rack up a ton of yards, but we STILL couldn't get stops in the red zone. 

 

A dominant front four is not going to rank near the bottom of the league in RZ defense and turnovers. It's gonna shoot to the top. 

 

I can see the rationale in putting it off for a season, but I'd like to think we're in win now mode. Agree that Murphy won't be part of the plan, but I also have no faith in Lawson. He's an edge setter and a 3-4 DE. We've already got Star "taking up space." You upgrade that end position opposite Hughes and it's potentially lights out for opposing QB's.

I don't see us even remotely close to ready to win now, but that's me. I think we're closer to year 2 of a 5 year plan. If this team becomes a consistent winner guys like McCoy. Beasley, Brown, Hughes. Hyde etc won't be a part of those plans. I think this year's goal is to be more respectable, and I expect a similar result from the last few seasons. We simply have too much inexperience and too little top-end talent right now to be thinking about anything other than backing into a wild-card. 6-10/9-7 is my expected range. The only thing that really matters this year is figuring out if Josh Allen can be a good NFL QB, because without that the rest doesn't even matter. 

[ganesh]

On 4/29/2019 at 3:15 AM, Rk_Bills86 said:

Honestly, Hughs could just be given 2-year contracts at the same amount he's been earning (I think an average of 9 Million a year?)

I doubt Hughes agent will accept a 2-year extension....This is his *LAST* big pay day.   The going rate is $20M a year for premier pass rusher.

2 hours ago, BullBuchanan said:

I don't see us even remotely close to ready to win now, but that's me. I think we're closer to year 2 of a 5 year plan. If this team becomes a consistent winner guys like McCoy. Beasley, Brown, Hughes. Hyde etc won't be a part of those plans. I think this year's goal is to be more respectable, and I expect a similar result from the last few seasons. We simply have too much inexperience and too little top-end talent right now to be thinking about anything other than backing into a wild-card. 6-10/9-7 is my expected range. The only thing that really matters this year is figuring out if Josh Allen can be a good NFL QB, because without that the rest doesn't even matter. 

100% agree.  If  Allen has  3500 yards,,  25 TD, 7 INT with a 60% completion will be a big stride forward.  If that results in 9 wins that is fantastic.  The team still needs a few blue chip players @ skill positions. 

[Rk_Bills86]

$20 million a year for a premier pass rusher. Yes, that's true. Hughs, however, is NOT that level of player. Neither is Clowney for that matter. Tell me that 9 to 11 million a year for someone his age with his production isn't basically what he would get on the market. 

[Richard Noggin]

7 hours ago, BullBuchanan said:

I don't see us even remotely close to ready to win now, but that's me. I think we're closer to year 2 of a 5 year plan. If this team becomes a consistent winner guys like McCoy. Beasley, Brown, Hughes. Hyde etc won't be a part of those plans. I think this year's goal is to be more respectable, and I expect a similar result from the last few seasons. We simply have too much inexperience and too little top-end talent right now to be thinking about anything other than backing into a wild-card. 6-10/9-7 is my expected range. The only thing that really matters this year is figuring out if Josh Allen can be a good NFL QB, because without that the rest doesn't even matter. 

I hope we're closer than that. Year TWO of the rookie QB deal is a good time to make the jump. Not necessarily to championship contention (I don't think the Bills are there at all), but to the playoffs (or else we're behind schedule). 

 

Next year is all-or-nothing. Once a team has to pay its QB, IF he pans out as a franchise guy, the windows aren't so wide open (unless the team consistently drafts well). So year three is still the perfect opportunity to make a run with well-paid talent throughout the roster. A FA splash or two, a resigned draftee or two, etc. 

 

The Bills pay almost nothing for QB and OL and CB right now. They should be able to field a deep roster because of that.

[Buffalo Barbarian]

13 hours ago, transplantbillsfan said:

 

Eh, you don't really need a true number one WR nowadays in the NFL, as long as the rest of your WRs are decent.

 

With the addition of Brown and Beasly and Foster coming on strong in the 2nd half of the season last year, I think our WR group might end up being pretty good.  Hopefully Jones gets better, too.  Beane sure seems to have a good deal of confidence in him.

 

Man, i hope so. 12 points a game was brutal.

 

 

[BarleyNY]

8 hours ago, Rk_Bills86 said:

$20 million a year for a premier pass rusher. Yes, that's true. Hughs, however, is NOT that level of player. Neither is Clowney for that matter. Tell me that 9 to 11 million a year for someone his age with his production isn't basically what he would get on the market. 

 

Here is a list of Edge FAs this season. $20M is high, but $9M-$11M is low for Hughes.  Plus prices will go up again next year if we wait. 

 

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/free-agents/all/edge/

[Rk_Bills86]

14 hours ago, BarleyNY said:

 

Here is a list of Edge FAs this season. $20M is high, but $9M-$11M is low for Hughes.  Plus prices will go up again next year if we wait. 

 

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/free-agents/all/edge/

 

......

 

So you're telling me that he should make more than those 5 players at soon to be 32 yrs old?

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

On 4/28/2019 at 3:31 PM, transplantbillsfan said:

...and there might be some question marks over whether he's really a "McDermott guy" .....

 

...Should Beane and McDermott give Hughes the big contract this offseason?...

 

Addressing 2 key points: 

Jerry is intense,an emotional leader, violent, high motor. He doesn’t take practice snaps off. That’s a lot of “McDermott guy” there..  

 

Also, not it sure just how big a deal he’s in line for, but if he’s reasonable and continues producing he’s coming back. Maybe sticks around in a cameron wake orTrent Murphy sort of deal? Well worth that. 

[BarleyNY]

45 minutes ago, Rk_Bills86 said:

 

......

 

So you're telling me that he should make more than those 5 players at soon to be 32 yrs old?

 

No.  I said that he will get paid more than the $9M-$11M estimate, but less than the $20M estimate.  That would put him right in that pack of players. 

[transplantbillsfan]

1 hour ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

 

Addressing 2 key points: 

Jerry is intense,an emotional leader, violent, high motor. He doesn’t take practice snaps off. That’s a lot of “McDermott guy” there..  

 

Also, not it sure just how big a deal he’s in line for, but if he’s reasonable and continues producing he’s coming back. Maybe sticks around in a cameron wake orTrent Murphy sort of deal? Well worth that. 

 

So what do you think a "reasonable deal" is?

 

https://overthecap.com/position/edge-rusher/

According to that, Hughes is the 22nd highest paid "Edge Rusher" in the NFL. Murphy is 31st and will be paid less than the likes of unproven rookie "Edge Rushers" Nick Bosa and Clelin Farrel.

 

I think you're nuts if Hughes accepts a deal like that.

 

Michael Bennett is a couple years older than Hughes and he just signed a 2 year deal with the Patriots worth almost $17 million. The Jags signed Calais Campbell to a 4 year $60 million deal when he was Hughes' current age and they picked up his option this year.

 

So tell me... what's reasonable for both the Bills AND for Hughes? It likely ain't a "Trent Murphy type of deal."

[JoPar_v2]

On 4/29/2019 at 12:51 PM, oldmanfan said:

Find me any successful business, organization, team, etc., etc. that does not have a well defined culture.

 

Pfff. Exhibit A everyone.

 

skipping past the obvious (define “culture”, define “well defined” even christ) you are exactly the type of rube i am talking about.

 

Amazon is successful. Looking at the numbers they may be the most successful company to ever walk the earth. What’s their “culture?” Is it being constantly innovative and smart with their acquisitions? Or is their “culture” exploiting their warehouse workers and other low-end employees? Because they do both. Which is their culture and which is just consequence? 

 

How bout Facebook? Pretty successful I’d say. What’s their “culture” that got them there? Was it their focus on connecting as many people (and companies) as possible, enabling good things like the Arab Spring to happen? Or was their “culture” one of collecting as much user data as possible to sell to the highest bidder in the name of growth and expansion? 

 

You tell me genius since you provided so much supporting data in your initial retort.

[oldmanfan]

4 hours ago, JoPar_v2 said:

 

Pfff. Exhibit A everyone.

 

skipping past the obvious (define “culture”, define “well defined” even christ) you are exactly the type of rube i am talking about.

 

Amazon is successful. Looking at the numbers they may be the most successful company to ever walk the earth. What’s their “culture?” Is it being constantly innovative and smart with their acquisitions? Or is their “culture” exploiting their warehouse workers and other low-end employees? Because they do both. Which is their culture and which is just consequence? 

 

How bout Facebook? Pretty successful I’d say. What’s their “culture” that got them there? Was it their focus on connecting as many people (and companies) as possible, enabling good things like the Arab Spring to happen? Or was their “culture” one of collecting as much user data as possible to sell to the highest bidder in the name of growth and expansion? 

 

You tell me genius since you provided so much supporting data in your initial retort.

They each have a culture, a defined way they want to do their business.  I don't work for either so I don't know their specifics. But every successful organization defines how they want to exist.  That's culture.

[WhyteDwarf]

On 4/28/2019 at 3:37 PM, TheTruthHurts said:

They will likely sign Hughes before the season. 

 

I'm not sure why they would do that, he's 30 years old.  Just replace him with Clowney and draft an edge guy next year.

[billsredneck1]

i would for sure extend hughes with a good 2yr. deal, but hopefully at the season's end.  as far as shaq...when is the deadline? imo, he'd have to be able to kick inside.

he says he's much stronger now than last year. i don't see him as any more than a 2 down end at best and if he progresses this year fine, but if i'm gonna pay him he'd have to have the ability to kick inside when needed.

 

i wonder how he'd do next to oliver on passing downs with hughes and murphy on the ends with lorax rushing as well. i'm thinking that could be pretty effective. if trent is healthy and really has a bounce back year, i'd rather have him at end though.

hopefully harold and johnson,  along with eddie y. can pitch in. maybe mike love will make a jump. i don't think they're gonna make a big trade or deal for ansah or clowney.

[Buffalo_Stampede]

6 hours ago, WhyteDwarf said:

 

I'm not sure why they would do that, he's 30 years old.  Just replace him with Clowney and draft an edge guy next year.

It's not that easy. Hughes shows no sign of slowing down. Give him a 2 year extension. 

Edited May 1, 2019 by TheTruthHurts

[JoPar_v2]

7 hours ago, oldmanfan said:

They each have a culture, a defined way they want to do their business.  I don't work for either so I don't know their specifics. But every successful organization defines how they want to exist.  That's culture.

 

You ask for examples, I gave you two. Instead of answering anything I asked, you respond with more vagueness. Done with you. Like conversing with curtains. 

[oldmanfan]

15 minutes ago, JoPar_v2 said:

 

You ask for examples, I gave you two. Instead of answering anything I asked, you respond with more vagueness. Done with you. Like conversing with curtains. 

You mentioned Verizon.  Look up Verizon and their two pizza policy.  A big part of their culture is to have meetings where you only invite enough people that can be fed by two pizzas.  It fosters collaboration and inventive thinking, and an important part of their corporate culture.  Facebook has a "hacker" mentality at the core of their culture; it encourages rapid decision making.  Those are just some examples from the two companies you mentioned.

 

Every successfully run organization fosters a specific culture, a specific way of doing what they do.  If you really don't think successful organizations don't foster specific cultures, specific ways they want to run their business, you are living in a fantasy land.