What does our defensive line base look like?

[maryland-bills-fan]

There is something to be said for a defensive line rotation.  The offensive line is a unit which works together and the whole is (if properly coached) more than the sum of the parts.  They do tire by the 4th quarter and if the D-line is stronger, because they can go all out on every play, then there is value for the defense in that.

 

Likewise, in the defensive backfield, the CB's and safeties are not substitued that often, if at all.   Running a number of deep patterns on them, with different WR can create the same effect.

[Mark92]

I can not wait to see Oliver lined up single coverage in the 3T on this line.  He is going live in the opponents backfield. No matter how great Kyle was he definitely had lost a step the past 3-4 years.  Oliver will bring youth and more speed.   How many sacks is this guy going to get as a rookie?   10 would not shock me at all.  

Edited April 28, 2019 by Mark92

[maryland-bills-fan]

2 minutes ago, Mark92 said:

I can not wait to see Oliver lined up single coverage in the 3T on this line.  He is going live in the opponents backfield.  How many sacks is this guy going to get as a rookie?   10 would not shock me at all.  

I wonder if our defensive ends will look much better when the defense has to double up on both Star and Oliver?

 

[Mark92]

They probably will end up doubling Oliver as the season goes on but to start the season I bet they will try not.  They will see his size and think single coverage will slow him up.  This leads to another topic about how important edge rushers are going to be.  If they double Oliver thats going to leave a hole somewhere.  I bet either through trade, FA oe next year's draft they will find at least one starter at DE that can attack the QB.  

As good as the D was last year I really think they will be better this year.  I truly believe Oliver will step right into Kyle's spot and the line won't miss a beat.  He's that good.  Edmonds is still 20 years old and had a decent rookie year.  That's pretty crazy.  20 year old rookie MLB that did an overall good job.  He's going to be a force in a year or two and will only be 22 ?.  

Edited April 28, 2019 by Mark92

[BuffaloBill]

8 hours ago, CaptnCoke11 said:

Yeah I’d be willing to bet that heavy rotation goes out the window now. 

 

 

I doubt it. The rotation is about keeping players healthy and fresh as both games and the season go past. 

[CSBill]

8 hours ago, Virgil said:

 

I actually didn’t have a specific guy I wanted.  But thanks for reading my mind. And now that it seems you have a personal thing for me, which is absolutely adorable, let me explain. 

 

The Top 10 pick should be an immediate impact player. Someone who should be a consistent starter.  

 

I didn’t think we stood a chance to get Bosa or Josh Allen.  Those, to me, were the biggest impact players.   When Allen fell past 5, I immediately wanted them to trade up.  Anything higher than that wasn’t worth what we’d have to give up. 

 

Once he went, I wanted Hock as that’s a huge need on our offense. 

 

So yes, I’m disappointed in Oliver.  Not because I don’t like the kid. In fact, I loved how he’s reacted and handled himself since being drafted.  My issue is how he will be used.  I don’t want any player at 9 that isn’t a full time starter.  If he’s going to make Harrison take a back seat, okay.  But it not, then I’m not a fan.  I’d have rathered a trade back, OLB, TE, or OT.  

 

I’m happy we got Ford in the 2nd. I’m not sure how I feel about Knox as his production didn’t show up in college.  Foster’s one of the few players I can think of that’s found a way to turn it on in then NFL. 

 

So, please pick your fight elsewhere.  I overall know that the organization knows 1000% more than anyone else on this board and their drafts the past two years have the best I’ve seen.  

 

Also, please utilize grammar.  Reading your horrific syntax makes me go cross-eyed

3

 

I have found this to be quite helpful: https://www.grammarly.com

Edited April 28, 2019 by CSBill

[CaptnCoke11]

21 minutes ago, BuffaloBill said:

 

 

I doubt it. The rotation is about keeping players healthy and fresh as both games and the season go past. 

Not when you have game changer.. Rams aren’t taking Donald off the field that much at all.  

 

I doubt they'd draft a player at 9 to play 50-60% of the snaps.  That’s just ridiculous 

Edited April 28, 2019 by CaptnCoke11

[3rdand12]

8 hours ago, Juice_32 said:

I don’t think so, simply because of the snap counts from last season at DT. They were on a pretty even rotation.

 

Oliver is essentially replacing Kyle. All 4 of them will be getting a ton of snaps, no less than last season.

Kyle,  i think  ? i read some where sometime took 5o + percent of snaps !! last year
 they do like a strong rotation though. Bills are getting some flexibility to move guys around with Oliver.
 

7 hours ago, vincec said:

It will be a heavy rotation. McDermott and Frazier aren't going to change their basic philosophy over a rookie. Maybe if he actually does turn into Aaron Donald they will make some adjustments but not at this point.

Like i said, they hope to move him around. he might get a serious workout some days : )

[3rdand12]

6 hours ago, HappyDays said:

I feel like a move for another DE is coming. We didn't add a single edge rusher until the 7th round. No way they believe in Shaq Lawson and Trent Murphy that much. I also expect Hughes to get an extension.

hmmm. we shall see what the Witch is brewing up.
 if Trent is healthy ? he a fine player, and Lawson is good for something. First downs and edge sealing should not be discounted. allows LBs and secondary to play more.
he just is not an elite  player and will get paid fairly.
Bills might let it ride though. Dangle the carrot of a payday via solid and or better season

i like both of them

 they each have a need to trend up a bit : )

Edited April 28, 2019 by 3rdand12

[TPS]

Normal rotation:

group 1: Shaq Star  Ed  Jerry

group 2: Murf Harry JPhillips Yarbrough

 

nickel pass rush: Murphy Zo Mr Ed. Jerry

short yardage: Star sandwiched by Phillips.

 

 

[vincec]

7 hours ago, HappyDays said:

I feel like a move for another DE is coming. We didn't add a single edge rusher until the 7th round. No way they believe in Shaq Lawson and Trent Murphy that much. I also expect Hughes to get an extension.

If only they could. Who is left? DE certainly isn't a strength and it's one injury to Hughes away from being a major problem.

[MasterStrategist]

9 hours ago, Virgil said:

With McD primarily running a nickel defense, what does our starting defensive line look like (also taking rotation into effect). 

 

Granted, I know we run different packages, short yardage, etc, but I’m still curious how we are going to use all of these guys in a way that justifies what we gave up for them. 

 

Oliver - #9 overall 

Star - Big Contract 

Harrison Phillips - 3rd rounder just last year 

Jordan Phillips - Just re-signed 4.5 mil

 

I’m assuming 

 

Base D - Star (2 man clog) Oliver (Rush)

Short Yardage - Star/Jordan

Pass Rush - Oliver/Harrison 

 

There’s also a wide 9 they sometimes run which might have Harrison - Star - Oliver.  

 

In any case, it seems like Harrison just got the short end of the stick to me.

 

Does Oliver line up at DE on some plays with Lorax beside him?  Lorax - Oliver - Harrison - Star - Hughes

 

Am I interpreting this the right way?

To answer your questions, my opinion:

1. Many teams, especially attacking 4-3s like ours, run defensive line rotations/frequent substitutions. This includes Seattle, Atlanta, Philly, Dallas, us. etc.

 

2. Any given Sunday, I'd expect our starting 4 would be: Hughes, Star, Oliver, and Shaq (barring injury to these men)

 

3. Murphy, Yarbrough (as of now) and both Phillips get used in the normal rotation (non-situation driven)

 

4. Obvious passing situations, I would expect: Hughes, Oliver, Zo, and Murphy.  This is the wide 9 grouping, minus Kyle that they ran last year.  With Kyle lined up next to Hughes and running frequent Texas stunts

 

5.  Obvious short yardage (goal line): i would expect all 4 defensive tackles on the field, along with 2 defensive ends. Typically aligning the tackles in the 1 eye and 2 eye techniques

 

Any attacking 4-3 system requires basically the equivalent of 2 waves/rotations.  Because they are asked to penetrate and shoot gaps every single play, they should never be taking a down off and gives them more opportunity to stay fresh for the entire game.

 

Regarding Oliver, it is very obvious that we needed a 3-technique to replace Kyle.  Oliver was the best option to fit in our defense. 

 

Not that we had the choice, but I still thin they would have drafted Oliver over Allen.  Oliver plays the 2nd most important role on Mcdermotts defense (behind MLB).  And based on his pre draft comments, inside pressure was a focus

[TigerJ]

I don't see ha heavy rotation as being a problem.  Oliver is a 280 lb defensive tackle.  As such, I think he needs to be spelled periodically to maintain his effectiveness.  His value is not in being an iron man, but in being incredibly disruptive when he is playing.

[RyanC883]

I read somewhere that Oliver can be moved all over the D-line.  (CBS Sports?).   With his athletic ability, I'm sure that's something the Bills will at least consider.  Try blocking someone who is moving around from play to play.  DT here, DE there.  

 

Although as someone else mentioned, I like his DT ability for the quickest route to the QB.  Should hopefully mess up other QB's and Brady's rhythm.  

Edited April 28, 2019 by RyanC883

[DCbillsfan]

7 hours ago, Virgil said:

 

I guess it’s about investment to me.  We paid a bunch for Star. A 3rd round pick isn’t a throw away.  Jordan hasn’t been a lot, thankfully. And now a 9th overall. 

 

From that perspective, I really would hope to see this line dominate and free up our DE’s and LBs

I think Oliver is going to blow up any concerns that you may have about him and his selection.

[Ethan in Cleveland]

DT is not an immediate impact position especially as a rookie. If he has 8 sacks rushing from the DT spot that would be amazing. I just hope he isn't a liability in the run game. 

Agree he will help pass rush for others. But a rookie penetrating DT can get out of position quickly in defending the run game.

There is no point in stating anymore I wanted Allen or Hock. It's history now.

 

[Kirby Jackson]

19 hours ago, Virgil said:

 

I guess it’s about investment to me.  We paid a bunch for Star. A 3rd round pick isn’t a throw away.  Jordan hasn’t been a lot, thankfully. And now a 9th overall. 

 

From that perspective, I really would hope to see this line dominate and free up our DE’s and LBs

They are TOTALLY different though. It’s like saying, “we have Benjamin why would we want Beasley?” The reality, is that the position is played a lot of different ways. Oliver plays a different game than Star. They aren’t apple and oranges. They are apples and vacuum cleaners.

Edited April 29, 2019 by Kirby Jackson

[HomeTeam]

9 hours ago, Kirby Jackson said:

If the concern is the number of snaps Oliver is going to get I wouldn’t worry about it. He will be out there a lot and used to his strengths. Oliver is going to be a superstar because of that athleticism whether he’s plays 50% of the snaps, 60% or 100%. His impact won’t just be felt by his numbers either. You’ll see an uptick in production from the edge guys and in turnovers because he will be living in the backfield.

Jerry Hughes is one happy camper right now. QBs won't be able to step up into the pocket resulting in more sacks for him. 

[Putin]

9 hours ago, Juice_32 said:

I don’t think so, simply because of the snap counts from last season at DT. They were on a pretty even rotation.

 

Oliver is essentially replacing Kyle. All 4 of them will be getting a ton of snaps, no less than last season.

So Oliver is penciled in as a starter right of the bat ? Or will he have to compete and EARN it , I know McBean and all of us are hoping that he earns the starting job( easily)

because listening to McBean every other word out of his mouth is (COMPETITION ) will ultimately decide who is # 1 /2 or 3 that was his response when he was asked about OL and DL as well !!! 

 

 

 

[formerlyofCtown]

10 hours ago, Virgil said:

With McD primarily running a nickel defense, what does our starting defensive line look like (also taking rotation into effect). 

 

Granted, I know we run different packages, short yardage, etc, but I’m still curious how we are going to use all of these guys in a way that justifies what we gave up for them. 

 

Oliver - #9 overall 

Star - Big Contract 

Harrison Phillips - 3rd rounder just last year 

Jordan Phillips - Just re-signed 4.5 mil

 

I’m assuming 

 

Base D - Star (2 man clog) Oliver (Rush)

Short Yardage - Star/Jordan

Pass Rush - Oliver/Harrison 

 

There’s also a wide 9 they sometimes run which might have Harrison - Star - Oliver.  

 

In any case, it seems like Harrison just got the short end of the stick to me.

 

Does Oliver line up at DE on some plays with Lorax beside him?  Lorax - Oliver - Harrison - Star - Hughes

 

Am I interpreting this the right way?

Welcome to the NFL.  

 

In case you havent noticed we use a line rotation.  

 

You have to earn your job on this team.