ColoradoBills Posted April 29, 2019 Share Posted April 29, 2019 On 4/27/2019 at 11:03 PM, Leonhart2017 said: I don’t know I am just a dude that doesn’t exercise, loves fried foods, and drinks like prohibition starts tomorrow. Your best bet at finding the answer is emailing the Bills organization. Let me know what you hear back! I will remember that line...thank you. 15 hours ago, Richard Crickets said: Who is the greatest undrafted qb of all time? I believe the query I ran last year (during the endless QB drafting threads) was Undrafted QBs with over 500 attempts from 1980 on. Player Undrafted GP GS Cmp Att Cmp% Yds YPA TD INT PR Case Keenum 2012 26 24 454 777 58.4 5,224 6.72 24 20 78.4 Brian Hoyer 2009 49 31 714 1,199 59.6 8,608 7.18 44 26 84.8 Matt Moore 2007 46 28 508 856 59.4 6,077 7.1 41 31 82 Tony Romo 2003 156 127 2,829 4,335 65.3 34,183 7.89 248 117 97.1 Shaun Hill 2002 49 35 757 1,225 61.8 8,295 6.77 49 30 84.9 Billy Volek 2000 39 10 337 561 60.1 3,754 6.69 27 15 84.9 Anthony Wright 1999 31 19 332 605 54.9 3,590 5.93 20 25 66.3 Jake Delhomme 1997 103 96 1,741 2,932 59.4 20,975 7.15 126 101 81.3 Jon Kitna 1996 141 124 2,677 4,442 60.3 29,745 6.7 169 165 77.4 Damon Huard 1996 64 27 574 946 60.7 6,303 6.66 33 26 80.6 Kelly Holcomb 1995 37 24 565 893 63.3 5,916 6.62 39 38 79.2 Kurt Warner 1994 124 116 2,666 4,070 65.5 32,344 7.95 208 128 93.7 Jeff Garcia 1994 125 116 2,264 3,676 61.6 25,537 6.95 161 83 87.5 Jay Fiedler 1994 76 60 1,008 1,717 58.7 11,844 6.9 69 66 77.1 Shane Matthews 1993 31 22 492 839 58.6 4,756 5.67 31 24 75 Jamie Martin 1993 53 8 355 541 65.6 3,814 7.05 20 21 82.3 Doug Pederson 1991 100 17 286 522 54.8 2,762 5.29 12 19 62.3 Erik Kramer 1987 83 67 1,317 2,299 57.3 15,337 6.67 92 79 76.6 Sean Salisbury 1986 40 12 318 577 55.1 3,824 6.63 19 19 72.9 Mike Tomczak 1985 185 73 1,248 2,337 53.4 16,079 6.88 88 106 68.9 David Archer 1984 55 23 336 661 50.8 4,337 6.56 18 30 61.9 Bobby Hebert 1983 118 100 1,839 3,121 58.9 21,683 6.95 135 124 78 Jeff Kemp 1981 96 29 479 916 52.3 6,230 6.8 39 40 70 Dave Krieg 1980 213 175 3,105 5,311 58.5 38,147 7.18 261 199 81.5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
metzelaars_lives Posted April 29, 2019 Share Posted April 29, 2019 (edited) As the token Bills and Wyoming fan on the board, the whole “Josh Allen had no talent around him at Wyoming” narrative is absolutely true for his 2017 season but not 2016. They were stacked in 2016 and it was that season that put him on the map as a top prospect. For a first year D1 starter, he was awesome in 2016. Edited April 29, 2019 by metzelaars_lives 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zow2 Posted April 30, 2019 Share Posted April 30, 2019 Having watched Tyree for his entire UB career and only focusing on Josh Allen last season w the Bills I have two observations. For a big guy, Allen moves like an athlete, he has a burst when he takes off and runs... like an athlete. Tyree looks uncoordinated at times and I think that is a legit knock on him by NFL scouts. When he gets flustered back there he looks like the inflatable tube guy that's flopping around in front of used car dealerships. Allen needs to shore up his accuracy but he didn't look too far off and had a ton of drops. He was a better looking passer than i was lead to believe coming in to the 2018 season. Tyree is a decent thrower when his initial read is open. The second half of 2018 he really bounced too many short passes off the turf or threw 100 mph way over guys heads. No touch. I like Tyree but i never thought he'd be anything more than a project early in his career. I thought he'd be drafted late 5th or 6th round so I was wrong about that like many others. As for Allen, I didn't really want him based on the pre-draft reports last spring but i can see why he was a top-10 pick. I think he will be good. Maybe not great but good enough to win and make the playoffs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HuSeYiN_NYC Posted April 30, 2019 Share Posted April 30, 2019 On 4/28/2019 at 12:35 AM, Bills fan in 561 said: I cant.... I also 2nd this but I prefer to say it with a British accent... I kont... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.Biscuit97 Posted April 30, 2019 Share Posted April 30, 2019 22 hours ago, Buffalo716 said: Look at Allen’s Last year team... he had no supporting cast... was running for his life all year... he had the worst line in the MWC Jackson had the best line in the MAC and still struggled... Yes, you can “ technically” fix a windup flaw but it isn’t likely... its muscle memory and he’s been throwing a football like that for a decade.. it’s set in stone and it’s bad he also DIPS THE BALL VERY LOW in the pocket... that is also MUSCLE MEMORY and it is a horrible QB trait you mentioned the gimmicky offense and how others can get drafted from it... yes, you can get drafted from the spread but you need to look for things that translate ...’ Baker and Murray and Mahomes had over 65% completion... and showed great touch in the short and intermediate game... Jackson had the best weapons in the MAC , the best line , and couldn’t even complete 60%... he also struggled heavily in games and has scattershot accuracy within 10 yards with no touch Allen with talent around him threw for 28 TDs in a pro offense as a RS SO and carried his team the next year while running for his life... Jackson never carried UB You can like it or not but I said in November that Jackson was not NFL caliber and I’m around UB daily and I know his flaws Considering no one from UB was drafted, maybe we overrated the talent. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldmanfan Posted April 30, 2019 Share Posted April 30, 2019 Give the kid some solid coaching and see if he can cut it at QB. And if not he's 6'7" and almost 250. Put a little more muscle on him and convert him to a receiving TE. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo716 Posted April 30, 2019 Share Posted April 30, 2019 3 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said: Considering no one from UB was drafted, maybe we overrated the talent. Idk about every player every Scout I talk to had atleast a 4-6 round grade on Johnson... he was definitely the draftable player thats just the nature of The spread offense now... 5-10 good WRs go undrafted yearly and unfortunately he was 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delete This Account Posted April 30, 2019 Share Posted April 30, 2019 On 4/27/2019 at 11:55 PM, BigDingus said: Josh Allen was always said to be a "project" QB, with a raw skillset but the physical attributes and athleticism that made him worth drafting on potential alone. Great size & arm strength were constantly noted, as were accuracy issues. On the other hand, Tyree Jackson is said to be the liked for the same reasons. Great size and athleticism, fantastic arm strength, but also inaccurate. They both also faced similar criticisms for facing inferior competition throughout their collegiate careers. Josh Allen is 6'5 and 240 lbs. Tyree Jackson is 6'7 and 249 lbs. Josh Allen's hand size is 10 & 1/8 inches. Tyree Jackson's hand size is 10 & 1/4 inches. Josh Allen's arms measured at 33 & 1/4 inches. Tyree Jackson's arms measured at 34 & 1/4 inches. Josh Allen ran a 4.75 second 40 yard dash. Tyree Jackson ran a 4.59 second 40 yard dash. Josh Allen had a 33.5 inch vertical jump. Tyree Jackson had a 34.5 inch vertical jump. *************************************************************************************************** So in terms of physical attributes, size & athleticism, they both are extremely similar in every way. Now to break down stats a bit: Josh Allen's Completion Percentage his final season - 56.3% Tyree Jackson's Completion Percentage his final season - 55.3% Josh Allen's YPG his final season - 164.7 yards Tyree Jackson's YPG his final season - 223.6 yards Josh Allen had 16 TD's, averaging 1.45 TD's per game his final season. (28 TD's in 14 games the the prior season) Tyree Jackson had 28 TD's, averaging 2.0 TD's per game his final season. (12 TD's in 8 games the prior season) Josh Allen threw 6 INT's, averaging 0.54 INT's per game his final season (15 INT's, averaging 1.07 per game the prior season) Tyree Jackson threw 12 INT's, averaging 0.85 INT's per game his final season (3 INT's, averaging 0.38 per game the prior season) Josh Allen rushed for 204 yards on 92 carries, averaging 2.2 YPA his final season. Tyree Jackson rushed for 161 yards on 55 carries, averaging 2.9 YPA his final season. Josh Allen rushed for 5 TDs his final season (12 TD's in 2 seasons). Tyree Jackson rushed for 7 TD's his final season (16 TD's in 3 seasons). Josh Allen was 8-3 as a starter his final season, 8-6 the prior year. Tyree Jackson was 10-4 as a starter his final season, 5-3 the prior year. Josh Allen's Passer Rating his final season was 127.8, and 144.9 the prior year. Tyree Jackson's Passer Rating his final season was 136.7, and 148.8 the prior year. *************************************************************************************************** Again, awfully similar in most every category. One of the only other factors to consider is whether you value playing in the MW Conference or the MAC more. Wyoming finished with a 4th overall W/L record at 8-5 in the MWC in 2017, with Allen not leading in a single statistical category in the conference. Buffalo finished with a 1st overall W/L record at 10-4 in the MAC in 2018, with Jackson leading in several major statistical categories in the conference (Ex: Most Passing TD's and Most Passing Yards). He also finished the season as the MAC's Offensive Player of the Year. Anyway... TL;DR - What differences between them were so huge that it lead to a gap in draft position as massive as A) being a top 10 pick in the 1st round and B) being passed over by everyone & signing as an Undrafted Rookie FA? I'm not saying Tyree is as good as Allen, and I'm not saying he's even worthy of being an NFL starter. I just can't see how one is worth the risk based on physical attributes & flashes of great talent, while the other has equally impressive physical attributes and also shows flashes of great talent. I mean, at least he should be worth a pick in the 4th round based on where Allen was drafted right? At worst, a 5th or 6th rounder... Can you imagine if Josh Allen fell to the 5th or 6th, or simply went undrafted? "Intangibles" can be thrown around to fill in for whatever explanation that doesn't exist for such a weird difference in draft stock, but that should only cover so much. On the other hand, I don't know if Jackson had any legal troubles or character doubts that I haven't heard about, but from what I know there wasn't anything noteworthy. So how did one guy profit so much his physical skillset while the other was written off for a very similar one? simple, because Tyree Jackson ignored all the advice to stay in school for on more year, not entirely realizing that few NFL teams had him on their radar last season, and that he was an average quarterback in a non-power conference playing for a team that was mostly run-oriented, making it difficult to gauge his potential after essentially one full season in which Buffalo lost its final two games and, without Anthony Johnson healthy, opened questions as to what was the cause of Jackson's inconsistencies, all but confirming reasons as to why he was so under-recruited coming out of high school. other than that i'm sure you're lengthy post, which i failed to read, has all the other answers for it. jw Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.Biscuit97 Posted April 30, 2019 Share Posted April 30, 2019 6 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said: Idk about every player every Scout I talk to had atleast a 4-6 round grade on Johnson... he was definitely the draftable player thats just the nature of The spread offense now... 5-10 good WRs go undrafted yearly and unfortunately he was 1 But the end result is he went undrafted like Allen’s one college receive and got invited to camp. I think Allen had an olinemen and rb get drafted too. Their situations are really similar. But as others have said, the height and release (possible the interviews) cost Jackson. Besides the first 2 picks, this made me happy because they are settling on the qb position and this basically cost nothing. And imo, he was the best developmental qb in the whole draft. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo716 Posted April 30, 2019 Share Posted April 30, 2019 (edited) 31 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said: But the end result is he went undrafted like Allen’s one college receive and got invited to camp. I think Allen had an olinemen and rb get drafted too. Their situations are really similar. But as others have said, the height and release (possible the interviews) cost Jackson. Besides the first 2 picks, this made me happy because they are settling on the qb position and this basically cost nothing. And imo, he was the best developmental qb in the whole draft. Allen had 1 good lineman, 1 good WR and 1 good RB and TE over 2 years... Jackson had 4 good lineman, 3-4 good RBs, a good TE, 2-3 good WRs and still struggled and the league will soon find out Anthony Johnson is better than Tanner Gentry from Wyoming i said in November TJ3 was a 6-7 round pick at best. He is nothing like Allen as a QB and I like the kid Edited April 30, 2019 by Buffalo716 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo716 Posted April 30, 2019 Share Posted April 30, 2019 People also forget that when Jackson went down in 17... Drew Anderson stepped up and played better than Jackson ever did... he was totally a much more natural thrower of the football Jackson wasn’t even the best QB on UB that year... then Anderson transferred and both wind up as UDFA QBs Anderson is much more accurate than Jackson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted April 30, 2019 Share Posted April 30, 2019 1 hour ago, Buffalo716 said: Idk about every player every Scout I talk to had atleast a 4-6 round grade on Johnson... he was definitely the draftable player thats just the nature of The spread offense now... 5-10 good WRs go undrafted yearly and unfortunately he was 1 What's your opinion of the two UDFA WR we did sign? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo716 Posted April 30, 2019 Share Posted April 30, 2019 19 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: What's your opinion of the two UDFA WR we did sign? Big fan of Sills as an UDFA i think he has great upside as a RZ target Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted April 30, 2019 Share Posted April 30, 2019 5 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said: Big fan of Sills as an UDFA i think he has great upside as a RZ target Easley? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo716 Posted April 30, 2019 Share Posted April 30, 2019 15 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: Easley? Hard working walk on. Slot guy.. don’t think he will make the roster but possibly PS can learn behind Beasley Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Misterbluesky Posted May 10, 2019 Share Posted May 10, 2019 Brown just said McD had him throwing into the Lake Erie winds today...after a few softees..he was nailing everything with ease. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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