Dr.Mantis_Toboggan Posted April 28, 2019 Share Posted April 28, 2019 Josh Allen has elite release time, I believe Sport science said it was right up there with Rodgers... Tyree not so much... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoPar_v2 Posted April 28, 2019 Share Posted April 28, 2019 1 hour ago, Mark92 said: I SAID I cherry Picked his best game to prove a point. I knowingly did that because I do not believe Jackson can be that good in the NFL. Pure talent is why Allen was a top 10 pick and Jackson ended up undrafted. On paper many things look similar but watch them both play and you will see the difference. OP started this thread posing a question as to WHY they were so far apart when it came to draft grades. I am giving my opinion. It was great work on the part of the OP though. Just because things look close on paper doesn't mean they are on the field. Sorry that you don't find my posts relevant. I'll make sure to run my opinions by you first from now on. ? That’s some excellent backpedaling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Gun Posted April 28, 2019 Share Posted April 28, 2019 15 hours ago, BigDingus said: Josh Allen was always said to be a "project" QB, with a raw skillset but the physical attributes and athleticism that made him worth drafting on potential alone. Great size & arm strength were constantly noted, as were accuracy issues. On the other hand, Tyree Jackson is said to be the liked for the same reasons. Great size and athleticism, fantastic arm strength, but also inaccurate. They both also faced similar criticisms for facing inferior competition throughout their collegiate careers. Josh Allen is 6'5 and 240 lbs. Tyree Jackson is 6'7 and 249 lbs. Josh Allen's hand size is 10 & 1/8 inches. Tyree Jackson's hand size is 10 & 1/4 inches. Josh Allen's arms measured at 33 & 1/4 inches. Tyree Jackson's arms measured at 34 & 1/4 inches. Josh Allen ran a 4.75 second 40 yard dash. Tyree Jackson ran a 4.59 second 40 yard dash. Josh Allen had a 33.5 inch vertical jump. Tyree Jackson had a 34.5 inch vertical jump. *************************************************************************************************** So in terms of physical attributes, size & athleticism, they both are extremely similar in every way. Now to break down stats a bit: Josh Allen's Completion Percentage his final season - 56.3% Tyree Jackson's Completion Percentage his final season - 55.3% Josh Allen's YPG his final season - 164.7 yards Tyree Jackson's YPG his final season - 223.6 yards Josh Allen had 16 TD's, averaging 1.45 TD's per game his final season. (28 TD's in 14 games the the prior season) Tyree Jackson had 28 TD's, averaging 2.0 TD's per game his final season. (12 TD's in 8 games the prior season) Josh Allen threw 6 INT's, averaging 0.54 INT's per game his final season (15 INT's, averaging 1.07 per game the prior season) Tyree Jackson threw 12 INT's, averaging 0.85 INT's per game his final season (3 INT's, averaging 0.38 per game the prior season) Josh Allen rushed for 204 yards on 92 carries, averaging 2.2 YPA his final season. Tyree Jackson rushed for 161 yards on 55 carries, averaging 2.9 YPA his final season. Josh Allen rushed for 5 TDs his final season (12 TD's in 2 seasons). Tyree Jackson rushed for 7 TD's his final season (16 TD's in 3 seasons). Josh Allen was 8-3 as a starter his final season, 8-6 the prior year. Tyree Jackson was 10-4 as a starter his final season, 5-3 the prior year. Josh Allen's Passer Rating his final season was 127.8, and 144.9 the prior year. Tyree Jackson's Passer Rating his final season was 136.7, and 148.8 the prior year. *************************************************************************************************** Again, awfully similar in most every category. One of the only other factors to consider is whether you value playing in the MW Conference or the MAC more. Wyoming finished with a 4th overall W/L record at 8-5 in the MWC in 2017, with Allen not leading in a single statistical category in the conference. Buffalo finished with a 1st overall W/L record at 10-4 in the MAC in 2018, with Jackson leading in several major statistical categories in the conference (Ex: Most Passing TD's and Most Passing Yards). He also finished the season as the MAC's Offensive Player of the Year. Anyway... TL;DR - What differences between them were so huge that it lead to a gap in draft position as massive as A) being a top 10 pick in the 1st round and B) being passed over by everyone & signing as an Undrafted Rookie FA? I'm not saying Tyree is as good as Allen, and I'm not saying he's even worthy of being an NFL starter. I just can't see how one is worth the risk based on physical attributes & flashes of great talent, while the other has equally impressive physical attributes and also shows flashes of great talent. I mean, at least he should be worth a pick in the 4th round based on where Allen was drafted right? At worst, a 5th or 6th rounder... Can you imagine if Josh Allen fell to the 5th or 6th, or simply went undrafted? "Intangibles" can be thrown around to fill in for whatever explanation that doesn't exist for such a weird difference in draft stock, but that should only cover so much. On the other hand, I don't know if Jackson had any legal troubles or character doubts that I haven't heard about, but from what I know there wasn't anything noteworthy. So how did one guy profit so much his physical skillset while the other was written off for a very similar one? How about wonderlic scores. Maybe the difference is mental. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LSHMEAB Posted April 28, 2019 Share Posted April 28, 2019 1 minute ago, pop gun said: How about wonderlic scores. Maybe the difference is mental. Jackson scored a 25. It's not great, but it's far from disqualifying. Had to be much more to it than that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chandler#81 Posted April 28, 2019 Share Posted April 28, 2019 Jackson flat out quit on his team in their biggest game in years, on national television. When/if Josh ever does that, he’ll go immediately on my shartlist as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just Joshin' Posted April 28, 2019 Share Posted April 28, 2019 If you have to ask why one is a first round and one UDFA, then no explanation will help. 1 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark92 Posted April 28, 2019 Share Posted April 28, 2019 37 minutes ago, JoPar_v2 said: That’s some excellent backpedaling. ? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Formerly Allan in MD Posted April 28, 2019 Share Posted April 28, 2019 Intangibles and film, as noted, ace this discussion. They speak much more than paper does. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HappyDays Posted April 28, 2019 Share Posted April 28, 2019 1 hour ago, kirkwoodus13 said: If a white QB had Dwayne Haskens numbers the number one pick would not be a question. This is an especially weird year to make this point. You did watch the beginning of the draft, yes? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted April 28, 2019 Share Posted April 28, 2019 6 hours ago, Buffalo716 said: I have watched every snap of Jacksons career... he may be physically similar to Allen but their actual quarterbacking skills are not on par... for starters... Allen has a super crisp and quick release.., Jackson has a very noticeable elongation in his windup... in the NFL that is the difference betweeen a TD and a pick 6... Josh Allen also had experience in a very pro style offense... routinely played in a system that asked him to read the whole field from 3-5-7 step drops TJ played in a gimmicky spread offense... he did read the whole field... but NEVER worked under center... maybe 1%... Jackson also was on a loaded UB offense and he struggled at times.. Josh may have struggled at times but he was on a dog**** Wyoming offense... he CARRIED THE TEAM Jackson didn’t carry UB And this, my friends, from a guy who has actually been paid to scout for the league, is your answer. 1. release - crisp, quick vs elongated 2. offense - pro style vs gimmick, under center vs spread 3. supporting cast - strong but still struggled vs. weak and carried the team Another factor alluded to may be football smarts, how does he show at the whiteboard or in interviews? Allen is a football smart guy, the general public could see it during "The Wakeup Call" features with Kurt Cousins. I don't know what that was like for Jackson, but it could be a factor. 2 hours ago, pop gun said: How about wonderlic scores. Maybe the difference is mental. Jackson had a decent Wonderlic, not as high as Allen but it's high enough that it isn't a flag. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob's House Posted April 28, 2019 Share Posted April 28, 2019 Why is Aaron Rogers starting for the Packers and I'm sitting on the couch? This is bull *****. 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoPar_v2 Posted April 28, 2019 Share Posted April 28, 2019 1 hour ago, Mark92 said: ? Lol the emoji response. Single smartest thing you’ve said in this thread. I wouldn’t want to show my a** anymore than you already have today either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo716 Posted April 28, 2019 Share Posted April 28, 2019 38 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: And this, my friends, from a guy who has actually been paid to scout for the league, is your answer. 1. release - crisp, quick vs elongated 2. offense - pro style vs gimmick, under center vs spread 3. supporting cast - strong but still struggled vs. weak and carried the team Another factor alluded to may be football smarts, how does he show at the whiteboard or in interviews? Allen is a football smart guy, the general public could see it during "The Wakeup Call" features with Kurt Cousins. I don't know what that was like for Jackson, but it could be a factor. Jackson had a decent Wonderlic, not as high as Allen but it's high enough that it isn't a flag. Those are the big ones but there is a good amount that he needs to clean up he dips the ball VERY low in the pocket... especially when he takes off... that is a huge concern and it’s muscle memory he also doesn’t excel in the short game... a slant is like poison ivy to him... if people think Allen has scattershot accuracy... Jackson is a like a shotgun without rifling Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JESSEFEFFER Posted April 28, 2019 Share Posted April 28, 2019 Tyree is talented enough to run for 45 yards with his team trailing and needing a score but then lack enough awareness and fumble at the 3. There were some tough losses that UB took where he was capable of doing more to help but he seemed to wilt under the pressure. Some athletes come alive when challenged. His tools are rare enough that he still should have been taken in the draft, imo. Teams took lesser QBs in this draft. Tyree had a good Senior Bowl, Combine and Pro Day. Maybe Jordan Palmer helped him some. Buffalo716 nailed some of his flaws but it's not like all the QBs taken don't have them too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TigerJ Posted April 28, 2019 Share Posted April 28, 2019 I think Tyree has upside, but there are clearly things he needs to fix, like his delivery. Josh Allen might have benefited from a year on the bench. Tyree Jackson surely will. Two years might even be better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dakrider Posted April 28, 2019 Share Posted April 28, 2019 I'm very surprised that no other team took Jackson in at least the 6th or 7th round. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
longtimebillsfan Posted April 28, 2019 Share Posted April 28, 2019 17 hours ago, GreggTX said: All I can say is that the 2 best QB's in the 2018 draft were already gone when we selected Allen. It remains to be seen if he's the real deal or just another running QB that can't hit the side of a barn. Many Bills fans simply will not allow themselves to see him as he really is -- Tyrod Taylor v2.0. At least TT made it to the probowl once. I'm getting tired of these QB's we bring in with the same MO (Allen, Taylor, EJ Manuel). I want a QB that throws the ball accurately with good placement on a consistent basis and one that makes quick, correct decisions. If he's a good scrambler, OK, but I really don't much care about that. How many rushing yards does Brady get in a season? 50 maybe? And he's got 6 SB rings. Are you that" get off my lawn" guy? Wow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
formerlyofCtown Posted April 28, 2019 Share Posted April 28, 2019 25 minutes ago, dakrider said: I'm very surprised that no other team took Jackson in at least the 6th or 7th round. The truth is less teams need a QB than I can ever remember. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peace Frog Posted April 28, 2019 Share Posted April 28, 2019 8 hours ago, mannc said: Another non-answer... That’s pretty much what the OP is asking. The way that his question is phrased, with the comparisons between Tyree and only Josh Allen, leaves me feeling like "Why didn't the Bills draft Tyree?" and not like "Why did every team pass on him?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Crickets Posted April 29, 2019 Share Posted April 29, 2019 Who is the greatest undrafted qb of all time? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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