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So why was Josh Allen a 1st rounder & Tyree Jackson Undrafted?


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Slow eyes

8 hours ago, BigDingus said:

Josh Allen was always said to be a "project" QB, with a raw skillset but the physical attributes and athleticism that made him worth drafting on potential alone. Great size & arm strength were constantly noted, as were accuracy issues.

 

On the other hand, Tyree Jackson is said to be the liked for the same reasons. Great size and athleticism, fantastic arm strength, but also inaccurate. They both also faced similar criticisms for facing inferior competition throughout their collegiate careers.


Josh Allen is 6'5 and 240 lbs.

Tyree Jackson is 6'7 and 249 lbs.

 

Josh Allen's hand size is 10 & 1/8 inches.

Tyree Jackson's hand size is 10 & 1/4 inches.


Josh Allen's arms measured at 33 & 1/4 inches.

Tyree Jackson's arms measured at 34 & 1/4 inches.

 

Josh Allen ran a 4.75 second 40 yard dash.

Tyree Jackson ran a 4.59 second 40 yard dash.

 

Josh Allen had a 33.5 inch vertical jump.

Tyree Jackson had a 34.5 inch vertical jump.

 

***************************************************************************************************

 

So in terms of physical attributes, size & athleticism, they both are extremely similar in every way. Now to break down stats a bit:

Josh Allen's Completion Percentage his final season - 56.3%

Tyree Jackson's Completion Percentage his final season - 55.3%

 

Josh Allen's YPG his final season - 164.7 yards

Tyree Jackson's YPG his final season - 223.6 yards

 

Josh Allen had 16 TD's, averaging 1.45 TD's per game his final season. (28 TD's in 14 games the the prior season)

Tyree Jackson had 28 TD's, averaging 2.0 TD's per game his final season. (12 TD's in 8 games the prior season)

 

Josh Allen threw 6 INT's, averaging 0.54 INT's per game his final season (15 INT's, averaging 1.07 per game the prior season)

Tyree Jackson threw 12 INT's, averaging 0.85 INT's per game his final season (3 INT's, averaging 0.38 per game the prior season)

 

Josh Allen rushed for 204 yards on 92 carries, averaging 2.2 YPA his final season.

Tyree Jackson rushed for 161 yards on 55 carries, averaging 2.9 YPA his final season.

 

Josh Allen rushed for 5 TDs his final season (12 TD's in 2 seasons).

Tyree Jackson rushed for 7 TD's his final season (16 TD's in 3 seasons).

 

Josh Allen was 8-3 as a starter his final season, 8-6 the prior year.

Tyree Jackson was 10-4 as a starter his final season, 5-3 the prior year.

 

Josh Allen's Passer Rating his final season was 127.8, and 144.9 the prior year.

Tyree Jackson's Passer Rating his final season was 136.7, and 148.8 the prior year.

 

***************************************************************************************************

 

Again, awfully similar in most every category. One of the only other factors to consider is whether you value playing in the MW Conference or the MAC more. Wyoming finished with a 4th overall W/L record at 8-5 in the MWC in 2017, with Allen not leading in a single statistical category in the conference.

 

Buffalo finished with a 1st overall W/L record at 10-4 in the MAC in 2018, with Jackson leading in several major statistical categories in the conference (Ex: Most Passing TD's and Most Passing Yards). He also finished the season as the MAC's Offensive Player of the Year.

 

Anyway... TL;DR - What differences between them were so huge that it lead to a gap in draft position as massive as A) being a top 10 pick in the 1st round and B) being passed over by everyone & signing as an Undrafted Rookie FA? I'm not saying Tyree is as good as Allen, and I'm not saying he's even worthy of being an NFL starter. I just can't see how one is worth the risk based on physical attributes & flashes of great talent, while the other has equally impressive physical attributes and also shows flashes of great talent.

I mean, at least he should be worth a pick in the 4th round based on where Allen was drafted right? At worst, a 5th or 6th rounder... Can you imagine if Josh Allen fell to the 5th or 6th, or simply went undrafted? "Intangibles" can be thrown around to fill in for whatever explanation that doesn't exist for such a weird difference in draft stock, but that should only cover so much. 

On the other hand, I don't know if Jackson had any legal troubles or character doubts that I haven't heard about, but from what I know there wasn't anything noteworthy. So how did one guy profit so much his physical skillset while the other was written off for a very similar one?

Watch the tape...

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6 hours ago, GreggTX said:

All I can say is that the 2 best QB's in the 2018 draft were already gone when we selected Allen. It remains to be seen if he's the real deal or just another running QB that can't hit the side of a barn. Many Bills fans simply will not allow themselves to see him as he really is -- Tyrod Taylor v2.0. At least TT made it to the probowl once. I'm getting tired of these QB's we bring in with the same MO (Allen, Taylor, EJ Manuel). I want a QB that throws the ball accurately with good placement on a consistent basis and one that makes quick, correct decisions. If he's a good scrambler, OK, but I really don't much care about that. How many rushing yards does Brady get in a season? 50 maybe? And he's got 6 SB rings.

 

I can't even.

 

It's true that Allen needs to take a step in several regards if he's going to become the franchise QB we all hope for.

 

But "Tyrod Taylor v2.0"?  Then comparison to EJ Manuel?  C'mon man.  If you're trolling, troll better.

 

If you actually watch football and in particular Bills games, and you're not trolling, and you think that, watch differently.  Subscribe to NFL Game Pass.  Read Cover1.  Do something to educate your fine self.

 

 

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7 minutes ago, Chuck Wagon said:

I can’t help but think some of Jackson’s biggest supporters on this board would have a dramatically different opinion of him if he went to Eastern Michigan instead of Buffalo. 

 

And I can't help but wonder if some of Jackson's biggest supporters have ever watched NFL football...

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Oh good lord ?.  The minute I saw that Jackson was signed I could already see the writing on the wall.  There will be a contingency of bills fans that will want him to be the starter.  It's going to be 4 months of this crap until he is either cut or moves to the practice squad.  Buckle up.  

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9 hours ago, BigDingus said:

Josh Allen was always said to be a "project" QB, with a raw skillset but the physical attributes and athleticism that made him worth drafting on potential alone. Great size & arm strength were constantly noted, as were accuracy issues.

 

On the other hand, Tyree Jackson is said to be the liked for the same reasons. Great size and athleticism, fantastic arm strength, but also inaccurate. They both also faced similar criticisms for facing inferior competition throughout their collegiate careers.


Josh Allen is 6'5 and 240 lbs.

Tyree Jackson is 6'7 and 249 lbs.

 

Josh Allen's hand size is 10 & 1/8 inches.

Tyree Jackson's hand size is 10 & 1/4 inches.


Josh Allen's arms measured at 33 & 1/4 inches.

Tyree Jackson's arms measured at 34 & 1/4 inches.

 

Josh Allen ran a 4.75 second 40 yard dash.

Tyree Jackson ran a 4.59 second 40 yard dash.

 

Josh Allen had a 33.5 inch vertical jump.

Tyree Jackson had a 34.5 inch vertical jump.

 

***************************************************************************************************

 

So in terms of physical attributes, size & athleticism, they both are extremely similar in every way. Now to break down stats a bit:

Josh Allen's Completion Percentage his final season - 56.3%

Tyree Jackson's Completion Percentage his final season - 55.3%

 

Josh Allen's YPG his final season - 164.7 yards

Tyree Jackson's YPG his final season - 223.6 yards

 

Josh Allen had 16 TD's, averaging 1.45 TD's per game his final season. (28 TD's in 14 games the the prior season)

Tyree Jackson had 28 TD's, averaging 2.0 TD's per game his final season. (12 TD's in 8 games the prior season)

 

Josh Allen threw 6 INT's, averaging 0.54 INT's per game his final season (15 INT's, averaging 1.07 per game the prior season)

Tyree Jackson threw 12 INT's, averaging 0.85 INT's per game his final season (3 INT's, averaging 0.38 per game the prior season)

 

Josh Allen rushed for 204 yards on 92 carries, averaging 2.2 YPA his final season.

Tyree Jackson rushed for 161 yards on 55 carries, averaging 2.9 YPA his final season.

 

Josh Allen rushed for 5 TDs his final season (12 TD's in 2 seasons).

Tyree Jackson rushed for 7 TD's his final season (16 TD's in 3 seasons).

 

Josh Allen was 8-3 as a starter his final season, 8-6 the prior year.

Tyree Jackson was 10-4 as a starter his final season, 5-3 the prior year.

 

Josh Allen's Passer Rating his final season was 127.8, and 144.9 the prior year.

Tyree Jackson's Passer Rating his final season was 136.7, and 148.8 the prior year.

 

***************************************************************************************************

 

Again, awfully similar in most every category. One of the only other factors to consider is whether you value playing in the MW Conference or the MAC more. Wyoming finished with a 4th overall W/L record at 8-5 in the MWC in 2017, with Allen not leading in a single statistical category in the conference.

 

Buffalo finished with a 1st overall W/L record at 10-4 in the MAC in 2018, with Jackson leading in several major statistical categories in the conference (Ex: Most Passing TD's and Most Passing Yards). He also finished the season as the MAC's Offensive Player of the Year.

 

Anyway... TL;DR - What differences between them were so huge that it lead to a gap in draft position as massive as A) being a top 10 pick in the 1st round and B) being passed over by everyone & signing as an Undrafted Rookie FA? I'm not saying Tyree is as good as Allen, and I'm not saying he's even worthy of being an NFL starter. I just can't see how one is worth the risk based on physical attributes & flashes of great talent, while the other has equally impressive physical attributes and also shows flashes of great talent.

I mean, at least he should be worth a pick in the 4th round based on where Allen was drafted right? At worst, a 5th or 6th rounder... Can you imagine if Josh Allen fell to the 5th or 6th, or simply went undrafted? "Intangibles" can be thrown around to fill in for whatever explanation that doesn't exist for such a weird difference in draft stock, but that should only cover so much. 

On the other hand, I don't know if Jackson had any legal troubles or character doubts that I haven't heard about, but from what I know there wasn't anything noteworthy. So how did one guy profit so much his physical skillset while the other was written off for a very similar one?

Good post. I felt after the Positive experience with JA, Tyree will get drafted in Round 3.

 

That said Allen’s final year stats are skewed by drops. Not sure about Tyree’s. Also Allen has a pocket presence that cannot be taught.

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9 hours ago, BigDingus said:

Josh Allen was always said to be a "project" QB, with a raw skillset but the physical attributes and athleticism that made him worth drafting on potential alone. Great size & arm strength were constantly noted, as were accuracy issues.

 

On the other hand, Tyree Jackson is said to be the liked for the same reasons. Great size and athleticism, fantastic arm strength, but also inaccurate. They both also faced similar criticisms for facing inferior competition throughout their collegiate careers.


Josh Allen is 6'5 and 240 lbs.

Tyree Jackson is 6'7 and 249 lbs.

 

Josh Allen's hand size is 10 & 1/8 inches.

Tyree Jackson's hand size is 10 & 1/4 inches.


Josh Allen's arms measured at 33 & 1/4 inches.

Tyree Jackson's arms measured at 34 & 1/4 inches.

 

Josh Allen ran a 4.75 second 40 yard dash.

Tyree Jackson ran a 4.59 second 40 yard dash.

 

Josh Allen had a 33.5 inch vertical jump.

Tyree Jackson had a 34.5 inch vertical jump.

 

***************************************************************************************************

 

So in terms of physical attributes, size & athleticism, they both are extremely similar in every way. Now to break down stats a bit:

Josh Allen's Completion Percentage his final season - 56.3%

Tyree Jackson's Completion Percentage his final season - 55.3%

 

Josh Allen's YPG his final season - 164.7 yards

Tyree Jackson's YPG his final season - 223.6 yards

 

Josh Allen had 16 TD's, averaging 1.45 TD's per game his final season. (28 TD's in 14 games the the prior season)

Tyree Jackson had 28 TD's, averaging 2.0 TD's per game his final season. (12 TD's in 8 games the prior season)

 

Josh Allen threw 6 INT's, averaging 0.54 INT's per game his final season (15 INT's, averaging 1.07 per game the prior season)

Tyree Jackson threw 12 INT's, averaging 0.85 INT's per game his final season (3 INT's, averaging 0.38 per game the prior season)

 

Josh Allen rushed for 204 yards on 92 carries, averaging 2.2 YPA his final season.

Tyree Jackson rushed for 161 yards on 55 carries, averaging 2.9 YPA his final season.

 

Josh Allen rushed for 5 TDs his final season (12 TD's in 2 seasons).

Tyree Jackson rushed for 7 TD's his final season (16 TD's in 3 seasons).

 

Josh Allen was 8-3 as a starter his final season, 8-6 the prior year.

Tyree Jackson was 10-4 as a starter his final season, 5-3 the prior year.

 

Josh Allen's Passer Rating his final season was 127.8, and 144.9 the prior year.

Tyree Jackson's Passer Rating his final season was 136.7, and 148.8 the prior year.

 

***************************************************************************************************

 

Again, awfully similar in most every category. One of the only other factors to consider is whether you value playing in the MW Conference or the MAC more. Wyoming finished with a 4th overall W/L record at 8-5 in the MWC in 2017, with Allen not leading in a single statistical category in the conference.

 

Buffalo finished with a 1st overall W/L record at 10-4 in the MAC in 2018, with Jackson leading in several major statistical categories in the conference (Ex: Most Passing TD's and Most Passing Yards). He also finished the season as the MAC's Offensive Player of the Year.

 

Anyway... TL;DR - What differences between them were so huge that it lead to a gap in draft position as massive as A) being a top 10 pick in the 1st round and B) being passed over by everyone & signing as an Undrafted Rookie FA? I'm not saying Tyree is as good as Allen, and I'm not saying he's even worthy of being an NFL starter. I just can't see how one is worth the risk based on physical attributes & flashes of great talent, while the other has equally impressive physical attributes and also shows flashes of great talent.

I mean, at least he should be worth a pick in the 4th round based on where Allen was drafted right? At worst, a 5th or 6th rounder... Can you imagine if Josh Allen fell to the 5th or 6th, or simply went undrafted? "Intangibles" can be thrown around to fill in for whatever explanation that doesn't exist for such a weird difference in draft stock, but that should only cover so much. 

On the other hand, I don't know if Jackson had any legal troubles or character doubts that I haven't heard about, but from what I know there wasn't anything noteworthy. So how did one guy profit so much his physical skillset while the other was written off for a very similar one?

 

Some people may not like this but I think there is a huge difference in accuracy and decision making.

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7 hours ago, GreggTX said:

All I can say is that the 2 best QB's in the 2018 draft were already gone when we selected Allen. It remains to be seen if he's the real deal or just another running QB that can't hit the side of a barn. Many Bills fans simply will not allow themselves to see him as he really is -- Tyrod Taylor v2.0. At least TT made it to the probowl once. I'm getting tired of these QB's we bring in with the same MO (Allen, Taylor, EJ Manuel). I want a QB that throws the ball accurately with good placement on a consistent basis and one that makes quick, correct decisions. If he's a good scrambler, OK, but I really don't much care about that. How many rushing yards does Brady get in a season? 50 maybe? And he's got 6 SB rings.

 

"It remains to be seen if he's the real deal or another..."

...immediately follows by declaring him a bust. ?

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9 hours ago, SoTier said:

 

This might be it.  His release and/or throwing motion might also be an issue.   I think even before the draft, he wasn't ever considered discussed among the prospects likely to go before the sixth or seventh round.   I think I saw one article somewhere calling him a "sleeper pick" or something.

I always find it odd that a throwing motion can be such a problem. You would figure to earn a 100 mil that a dude could learn to improve it.

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1 hour ago, 4thandGoal said:

Simple-- if you watched any of UBs games-- Tyree is not that good.  Also if Tyree wasnt playing for a college in Buffalo-- no one would care on this board of why he went undrafted. Same goes with the love for Anthony Jackson--

 

And yet, Jackson and Johnson were both talked about and mocked by draftniks all year. Why is that?

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I'm just happy he didn't land in New England. 

 

The answer is, IMHO, that while Josh Allen required some development time he was a gamer that won games without much of a supporting cast at Wyoming his final season. Allen basically carried his team on his shoulders.

 

While the physical comparison is notable between the two. Allen tested off the charts not only physically but also mentally as the kid tested very high on the wonderlic at 37.                     A score of 20 gives an IQ of around 100. Tom Brady scored a 33. 

 

Josh Rosen 29

Sam Darnold 28

Baker Mayfield 25

Lamar Jackson 13

 

Eli Manning 39

Aaron Rodgers 35

Carson Wentz 40

Big Ben 25

Paxton Lynch 18

Dan Marino 16

RG3 24

Ryan Fitzpatrick 48

Frank Gore 6

 

Weaknesses
  • Threw 12 touchdowns to nine interceptions over final nine games
  • Had very little control over accuracy during stretches
  • Career completion percentage of 55.8 percent
  • Footwork in the pocket feels heavy
  • Treats slants and short throws like a game of burn-out
  • Needs better feel for proper deep ball trajectory
  • Delayed decision-maker near end zone
  • Inconsistent in developing post-snap plan
  • Too willing to throw it up for grabs under heavy pressure
  • Carries football low and away from frame when scrambling
Sources Tell Us

"He's a project, but he can move a little bit and his arm is really, really good. He's a draft and develop guy. Personally, I probably wouldn't take him until between (Rounds) 5-7." -- Executive with AFC team
 
Edited by Nihilarian
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8 hours ago, Buffalo Barbarian said:

Stats are for Mike Schopp.

 

Watch the games and you will see.

 

 

In other words, you’re not able to answer the OP’s question in an intelligent way... 

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This is actually a great question. 

 

Maybe it's because one is white and one is black? xD

 

I kid... I have no idea but I imagine it has to do with projection. Scouts were saying with Allen that he has some of the best attributes they've ever seen in all the time they've spent scouting. That speaks rather highly if you ask me. 

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