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John Warrow’s High Praise For Beane & McDermott Regime

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1 hour ago, Joe in Winslow said:

 

This is the truth. An anti-beane agenda masked by a pro-sammy post list.

Some people just naturally gravitate to losers.

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5 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

I agree it's a pretty good discussion. I've said that in a couple posts.  That doesn't change the fact that some people in the discussion steadfastly refuse to give McBeane positive grades for anything.  This current discussion that trading Sammy was some kind of calamitous mistake is a good example.  There were perfectly good reasons why that happened, and there is no evidence that having kept Sammy would have changed the fortunes of the Bills in any material way, and yet some people continue to point to it as some major failing.  You want to argue about a player who has had success, like Mahomes, fine. I get that.  But arguing that McBeane are failing because of Watkins is stubborn or stupid.  I will listen to that argument when Sammy has a legitimate 1000 yard season, not before.  

 

I dont think there is even a 5% chance McBeane are in trouble if the Bill's are 8-8 this year.  They have been completely clear that they're building for the long term and there's no evidence that the Pegulas aren't on board with that.  The Pegs could grow impatient, for sure, but I think that happens only at 6-10 or worse.  

Sammy can go on to have multiple All Pro seasons, and I hope he does, but that STILL wouldn’t negate the legitimate reasons McBeane had in trading him when they did. Totally unrelated events. That won’t stop the conflating and complaining that will take place around here if he does, of course. My advice is just try to ignore it.

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6 minutes ago, Rico said:

Some people just naturally gravitate to losers.

 

truth is, we could afford Sammy and he would be our best receiver by far.

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9 minutes ago, BillsVet said:

 

The same guys who brought forth the 2017 and 2018 seasons are here for 2019.

 

They have a lot to prove in 2019 and have only increased expectations with the UFA spending spree.  Even minus those acquisitions, you expect to see a playoff run in year 3 if not earlier.

 

That said, I see plenty of fans pulling back on expectations because the thought of being wrong is not anything they can contemplate.  Easier to predict 8-8 and get 10 wins that risk one's ego and predict 10-6 only to witness a 7-9. 

 

It’s possible they can go 0-16 this year, too.  

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27 minutes ago, dave mcbride said:

 

To be fair to Watkins, he played 9 games plus a very short portion of a 10th game (against Denver the first time KC played them; he had a hamstring issue and came out of the game in the first quarter). Prorated, he was actually on pace for 70 receptions, 910 yards and 5 TDs. Also, if you sub in the numbers from the two playoff games in lieu of two missed games and pro-rate it (which I think you should -- playoff games are the most important games involving the highest stakes and the toughest competition), his pro-rated 16 game-season numbers were 72 receptions, exactly 1,000 yards, and 5 TDs.  Either way, he was on pace for for more than 60 receptions and 750 yards. 

 

I do realize he gets hurt too much, but anyone watching a healthy Sammy play vs. NE in the AFC championship game could see the lights-out talent on display. He was great in that game, and anyone who denies that wasn't watching. If he stays healthy -- and yeah, I know it's a huge if given past history -- he may well have a dominant season given the quality of the QB and the absence of Hill. He is still young, remember. He turned 26 just 12 days ago, and his huge physical talent and receiving skills are readily evident to those with eyes. Anyway, the book on him hasn't come close to being completed yet. 

I don't think you meant to do this, but your post here demonstrates the hypocritical nature of some fans.  Here's Sammy (who, again, I wish we would have kept) going into I believe his sixth season (maybe 5th).  His career has not been anywhere near what he and others had hoped, due a lot to injury bout also due to less that the outstanding performances everyone expected from him out of college.  Yet you're indicating his time will come, the book isn't completed, and such.  And I agree with that.

 

But if we are to do so with Sammy, why then do we have posts declaring that we need to give up on a Zay Jones?  Why do we have a thread about when to pull the plug on Allen this coming season, his second season in a very difficult position, when he showed such promise last year. Why should we have patience for other teams' players but not our own?

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17 minutes ago, BillsVet said:

 

The same guys who brought forth the 2017 and 2018 seasons are here for 2019.

 

They have a lot to prove in 2019 and have only increased expectations with the UFA spending spree.  Even minus those acquisitions, you expect to see a playoff run in year 3 if not earlier.

 

That said, I see plenty of fans pulling back on expectations because the thought of being wrong is not anything they can contemplate.  Easier to predict 8-8 and get 10 wins that risk one's ego and predict 10-6 only to witness a 7-9. 

 

what an obnoxious comment.  i haven't seen any instance where someone is pulling back expectations to protect their ego.  go pull up the early prediction thread.  it might ruin this nonsense you're trying to push.

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14 minutes ago, BillsVet said:

 

The same guys who brought forth the 2017 and 2018 seasons are here for 2019.

 

They have a lot to prove in 2019 and have only increased expectations with the UFA spending spree.  Even minus those acquisitions, you expect to see a playoff run in year 3 if not earlier.

 

That said, I see plenty of fans pulling back on expectations because the thought of being wrong is not anything they can contemplate.  Easier to predict 8-8 and get 10 wins that risk one's ego and predict 10-6 only to witness a 7-9. 

 

 

They are?  Probably 7 new starters on offense.

 

I don't know what fans you're referring to, but I've said several times the "floor" for this team should be 8-8 with elimination of the bad losses and offensive statistics not mired in the bottom quarter of the league.  My story hasn't changed, and I couldn't care less about my "ego" when guessing at a team's record.

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7 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:

I don't think you meant to do this, but your post here demonstrates the hypocritical nature of some fans.  Here's Sammy (who, again, I wish we would have kept) going into I believe his sixth season (maybe 5th).  His career has not been anywhere near what he and others had hoped, due a lot to injury bout also due to less that the outstanding performances everyone expected from him out of college.  Yet you're indicating his time will come, the book isn't completed, and such.  And I agree with that.

 

But if we are to do so with Sammy, why then do we have posts declaring that we need to give up on a Zay Jones?  Why do we have a thread about when to pull the plug on Allen this coming season, his second season in a very difficult position, when he showed such promise last year. Why should we have patience for other teams' players but not our own?

That's a fair point, but my issue with Jones up to this point hasn't been injury but his modest physical talent and his tendency to not make plays in clutch situations (first Miami loss last season when he dropped a pass at the 8 that would have given the Bills a first down in the final minute; the bad route he ran vs. Carolina that cost the Bills the game in 2017). He could get better, of course, and if the spring reports are to be believed, he's setting himself up for a decent-to-good season. I don't see him as ever being a #1 (which is OK; he wasn't a first round pick), but Watkins has that potential because of his natural ability. 

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3 hours ago, eball said:

 

You should be "flammed" for calling the Pegulas incompetent because that's an ignorant remark.  At worst, the Pegulas are learning on the job and may have relied too heavily on people like Russ Brandon early in their Bills' ownership.  It has been repeated many times that keeping a GM and scouting staff on board until after the draft is not uncommon, even if a change will be made.  I still think it's reasonable to believe that until Whaley's abominable press conference post-Rex's firing he had at least a 50/50 shot of staying.

 

Scott, I respect that you have opinions about what you think the Bills should or shouldn't have done, but it's not reasonable to label the Pegulas as "incompetent" with respect to what they have done regarding the Bills.

 

 

Nothing I've seen from Pegula so far suggests that Pegula knows what he's doing.  I began to suspect he wasn't the owner to bring winning football back to Buffalo when he sent most of Ralph's minions packing but not only failed to remove Russ Brandon but promoted him to head up both the Bills and Sabres organizations.  How does the CEO/President/GM of an organization that had a winning percentage of less than .400 over the length of his nearly decade tenure merit being retained by new ownership -- and then given a promotion? 

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3 minutes ago, eball said:

 

They are?  Probably 7 new starters on offense.

 

I don't know what fans you're referring to, but I've said several times the "floor" for this team should be 8-8 with elimination of the bad losses and offensive statistics not mired in the bottom quarter of the league.  My story hasn't changed, and I couldn't care less about my "ego" when guessing at a team's record.

seriously.  now people are being criticized for giving their honest opinion about who the season will play out.  i guessed 9 wins, and i'm not sure if that's enough to make the playoffs.  am i trying to protect my "ego"?  

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26 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

I'm kinda amused by this thread because generally, this board criticizes writers when they talk negatively about the Bills.  I mean Rodak was hated on here because of his negativity.  Same with Sullivan.

 

Now, we have a writer saying good things and he's getting the same treatment!

We’ve moved on from Mr. Wawrow long ago. This is pure fan on fan violence, nit picking, hair splitting and dead horse beating.

 

The only thing missing is a good Doug Flutie debate. (He sucked)

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28 minutes ago, BillsVet said:

 

The same guys who brought forth the 2017 and 2018 seasons are here for 2019.

 

They have a lot to prove in 2019 and have only increased expectations with the UFA spending spree.  Even minus those acquisitions, you expect to see a playoff run in year 3 if not earlier.

 

That said, I see plenty of fans pulling back on expectations because the thought of being wrong is not anything they can contemplate.  Easier to predict 8-8 and get 10 wins that risk one's ego and predict 10-6 only to witness a 7-9. 

 

 

I don't think that's the case.  Our entire offensive line has changed.  We added two new FA WR.  We made 3 additions to the RB position.

A whole new TE unit.  It's not the same at all.


Not to mention changes in the coaching staff.

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Posted (edited)
13 minutes ago, SoTier said:

 

Nothing I've seen from Pegula so far suggests that Pegula knows what he's doing.  I began to suspect he wasn't the owner to bring winning football back to Buffalo when he sent most of Ralph's minions packing but not only failed to remove Russ Brandon but promoted him to head up both the Bills and Sabres organizations.  How does the CEO/President/GM of an organization that had a winning percentage of less than .400 over the length of his nearly decade tenure merit being retained by new ownership -- and then given a promotion? 

Because Russ Brandon knows the business end of a sports franchise, and not the paying end.  He never had any business around decisions about football (that was Ralph and I suspect Littman ), never should have had input into coaching decisions, etc.   But the guy knew the marketing and business ends of pro sports teams.

 

You honestly can't really be trying to equate the business side with the playing side, right?  I mean you can't really think those correlate in any way, right? 

Edited by oldmanfan

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5 minutes ago, Cripple Creek said:

We’ve moved on from Mr. Wawrow long ago. This is pure fan on fan violence, nit picking, hair splitting and dead horse beating.

 

The only thing missing is a good Doug Flutie debate. (He sucked)

 

Head and Shoulders does a good job with split ends.

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8 minutes ago, teef said:

seriously.  now people are being criticized for giving their honest opinion about who the season will play out.  i guessed 9 wins, and i'm not sure if that's enough to make the playoffs.  am i trying to protect my "ego"?  

Egos are such fragile things. Which is why I’m gonna actually predict 0-16. Total protection for my ego as we literally can’t be worse. And anything better than that is pure gravy for my ego. Win win for me and my ego!

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2 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

Head and Shoulders does a good job with split ends.

Speaking of Head and Shoulders, did you know that Sammy Watkins is head and shoulders better than any WR on our roster?

 

discuss.

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10 minutes ago, SoTier said:

 

Nothing I've seen from Pegula so far suggests that Pegula knows what he's doing.  I began to suspect he wasn't the owner to bring winning football back to Buffalo when he sent most of Ralph's minions packing but not only failed to remove Russ Brandon but promoted him to head up both the Bills and Sabres organizations.  How does the CEO/President/GM of an organization that had a winning percentage of less than .400 over the length of his nearly decade tenure merit being retained by new ownership -- and then given a promotion? 

 

Probably because you can't see very well.  Like this attachment.  Somehow you looked at our replies and stated that you weren't talking about first year HC's and it was my stipulation....

SoTier.jpg

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1 minute ago, K-9 said:

Egos are such fragile things. Which is why I’m gonna actually predict 0-16. Total protection for my ego as we literally can’t be worse. And anything better than that is pure gravy for my ego. Win win for me and my ego!

It's a bold strategy Cotton, let's see if it pays off for ya!

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28 minutes ago, Chemical said:

 

truth is, we could afford Sammy and he would be our best receiver by far.

Weird that the guy who played on the best offenses the last 2 years and made the playoffs is a “loser.” 

 

What would that make the 31st ranked offense?

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1 minute ago, stony said:

It's a bold strategy Cotton, let's see if it pays off for ya!

boldmove.jpg

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37 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

I agree it's a pretty good discussion. I've said that in a couple posts.  That doesn't change the fact that some people in the discussion steadfastly refuse to give McBeane positive grades for anything.  This current discussion that trading Sammy was some kind of calamitous mistake is a good example.  There were perfectly good reasons why that happened, and there is no evidence that having kept Sammy would have changed the fortunes of the Bills in any material way, and yet some people continue to point to it as some major failing.  You want to argue about a player who has had success, like Mahomes, fine. I get that.  But arguing that McBeane are failing because of Watkins is stubborn or stupid.  I will listen to that argument when Sammy has a legitimate 1000 yard season, not before.  

 

I dont think there is even a 5% chance McBeane are in trouble if the Bill's are 8-8 this year.  They have been completely clear that they're building for the long term and there's no evidence that the Pegulas aren't on board with that.  The Pegs could grow impatient, for sure, but I think that happens only at 6-10 or worse.  

No one is saying they are failing because of Watkins.  (Not sure how many people are actually saying they are failing; the doubters are mostly just saying that they are skeptical.)  On the other hand, it's entirely fair to criticize the way the Watkins situation was handled, starting with the team's decision not to exercise the 5th year option.  IMO, that was just a flat-out bad decision that hurt the Bill's leverage in any trade negotiations.  And Sammy averaged over 1000 yards receiving his first two seasons with the Bills, so I guess you have to listen now😁

 

You are entitled to your opinion regarding McDermott's job security.  IMO, there is little difference between 6-10 and an 8-8 season in which the team was basically eliminated from playoff contention in early December and was non-competitive in both games against NE.   

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4 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

Weird that the guy who played on the best offenses the last 2 years and made the playoffs is a “loser.” 

 

What would that make the 31st ranked offense?

 

Weird than McVay, the guy who operates the elite offense didn't keep Sammy 1 year after trading him.  Then decided to tag a Safety instead of Sammy.

Very weird.

10 minutes ago, SWATeam said:

Speaking of Head and Shoulders, did you know that Sammy Watkins is head and shoulders better than any WR on our roster?

 

discuss.

 

They'll need a new spokesperson and I don't think Sammy has any current endorsements.....

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Can we close this thread? It literally has nothing to do with the topic.

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3 hours ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

Sick burn old man!  Clearly Sammy is losing out by playing out on SB contenders,  the best offense in the entire league, and making $16 million/ year.  What a loser!

Andy Reid, Sean McVay

 

I don't think anyone will argue that Sam keeps getting put into excellent situations and being paid well in the process.

 

The fact of the matter is that he's been Mr. Irrelevant on these SB contenders' best offenses in the entire league.  And that's because he's injury prone and won't play through any kind of discomfort.  Again ... fact.

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5 minutes ago, Gugny said:

 

I don't think anyone will argue that Sam keeps getting put into excellent situations and being paid well in the process.

 

The fact of the matter is that he's been Mr. Irrelevant on these SB contenders' best offenses in the entire league.  And that's because he's injury prone and won't play through any kind of discomfort.  Again ... fact.

$16M

 

Andy/Sean

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