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John Warrow’s High Praise For Beane & McDermott Regime

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1 minute ago, mannc said:

I tend to agree.  But perhaps it's the kind of thing that happens all the time in the league and teams aren't going to make a big deal about it because they may be the one doing it next time.  Of course there is also the fact that that sort of collusion would probably violate the Rooney Rule, as well...

NFL is a tight knit club.

Ron has always been one to mentor and remain loyal to his people, it seems.

 To what degree?

maybe he just turned a blind eye consciously ?

or perhaps it was more nod and wink.
NFL would never admit nor allow knowingly.
but i am sure these things are reasonable possibilities .

all said

it has been good for McBeanes.
If i was Panthers owner i would want to nurture both of our guys. Good for the League good for the Bills and good for the Game in general.

 


 

2 hours ago, Patrick_Duffy said:

At least he hasn't PM'ed you and @Gugny yet to meet up with him at some club called "The White Swallow". I simply refuse and wish not to take no parts in his sport drinking activities.

refuse and "wish not" are separate in concept literally at least.

did you have a bad time ?

there was a club in NYC late 60s called blue oyster. have you any memories of those days ?

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On 6/24/2019 at 10:46 AM, C.Biscuit97 said:

 I know Sammy is a sore subject here but KC paid him a lot of money to be a 3 td option. Think about that.  We just bargain basement shop for receivers.  

I did think about it.  Yes it was really, really dumb to pay him that much. That is what you are pointing out?

 

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Posted (edited)
13 minutes ago, Limeaid said:

I did think about it.  Yes it was really, really dumb to pay him that much. That is what you are pointing out?

 

 

Successful offenses have 3rd options that can get open. Sammy has a great AFC championship game you think if they end up winning that game and the super bowl they care how much he was paid?

 

theyre smart because they know they can afford that contract while Mahomes is on his rookie deal. 

 

We would be lucky to have Sammy on that deal right now 

Edited by Chemical
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50 minutes ago, eball said:

 

My first comment was that it makes sense.  I just believe that would be a huge deal and I can't imagine Rivera and the Panthers being "ok" with it.  They're not dumb either.

 

 

People in the Carolina organization were the first to point out that the Bills appeared to have been using their draft board.     It's not like that wasn't discussed here.    You were probably in those threads then too but don't remember because you tend to create a lot of thoughtless takes.

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1 minute ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

People in the Carolina organization were the first to point out that the Bills appeared to have been using their draft board.     It's not like that wasn't discussed here.    You were probably in those threads then too but don't remember because you tend to create a lot of thoughtless takes.

 

That's very productive.  Of course it was discussed.  I was responding to a specific Gunner post in this thread.

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1 hour ago, Limeaid said:

I did think about it.  Yes it was really, really dumb to pay him that much. That is what you are pointing out?

 

Yup. The nfl’s number 1 offense is clearly dumber than the 31st. Clearly. Good point. 

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5 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

It wasn't Whaley's call. It was Beane's. Brandon Beane's hand was on the tiller from Carolina. Carolina - a place where they had a franchise Quarterback in place and were not in the market for another. Hence very likely the Assistant GM had put little to no time into getting under the skin of Mahomes and Watson. Therefore his advice to McDermott was "wait until I am there.... next year is a good class we will get our guy then." 

 

I can't prove it. Likely will never be able to because the Bills covered their tracks. But what we do know is that Tre White, Dion Dawkins and Zay Jones had all been into the Panthers on visits. Tre is the only first rounder under this regime that the Bills didn't have in. I am utterly convinced Brandon Beane ran that draft from Carolina. That's why the other guy the Bills interviewed was Brian Gaine a guy they eneded up hiring in a senior post. That interview was a sham. It was a guy Beane had already tapped up for a key role doing the Bills a solid. 

 

The 2017 draft will never have Brandon Beane's name next to it. But it does have his fingerprints all over it.

 

He wasn't going to risk his shot at being an NFL GM on QBs he had not evaluated. 

 

I'm pretty sure this would be against the rules and we all know that the Patriots are the only ones who break the rules. Pshhh.

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Posted (edited)

I am getting a kick out of all the conspiracy theories and rewriting's of history and facts.   

 

Sammy Watkins has massively underperformed expectations and his contract.  That is an indisputable position.   The Rams traded for him and decided after one season that they would just rather lose their 2nd round pick, let Sammy play elsewhere and pay the money to Cooks.   That is a fact.  Which it would be nearly impossible to reasonably argue that the Rams didnt make the right decision.  Right?  Or do one of you want to have a go at telling me that the Rams made the wrong decision?  That is now two teams that have decided to not to continue to pursue Watkins after observing him from up close.  Another fact.  Then he goes to the Chiefs and misses over a third of the season due to injuries and puts up pedestrian numbers with 40 receptions, 3 TD's, barely over 500 yards and an uninspiring 13 yards per reception.  Even if he had played all season at the rate that he was playing, he still would have had about around 750 yards and less than 60 receptions and around 5 TD's.

 

You guys want to know what Brandin Cooks did this past year with the Rams?  80 receptions and over 1200 yards.  That is double Sammy's production from the previous year.  Same offense,  same position the only difference is the player.

 

He's played with arguably 2 of the top 5 QB's this past 2 years and he still doesn't have a combined 1000 yards receiving.

 

What's the excuse?  Seriously, I would love to hear yet the umpteenth million excuse for Sammy's shortcomings.   Let's hear it.

Edited by Magox
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12 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

It wasn't Whaley's call. It was Beane's. Brandon Beane's hand was on the tiller from Carolina. Carolina - a place where they had a franchise Quarterback in place and were not in the market for another. Hence very likely the Assistant GM had put little to no time into getting under the skin of Mahomes and Watson. Therefore his advice to McDermott was "wait until I am there.... next year is a good class we will get our guy then." 

 

I can't prove it. Likely will never be able to because the Bills covered their tracks. But what we do know is that Tre White, Dion Dawkins and Zay Jones had all been into the Panthers on visits. Tre is the only first rounder under this regime that the Bills didn't have in. I am utterly convinced Brandon Beane ran that draft from Carolina. That's why the other guy the Bills interviewed was Brian Gaine a guy they eneded up hiring in a senior post. That interview was a sham. It was a guy Beane had already tapped up for a key role doing the Bills a solid. 

 

The 2017 draft will never have Brandon Beane's name next to it. But it does have his fingerprints all over it.

 

He wasn't going to risk his shot at being an NFL GM on QBs he had not evaluated. 

 

2fe138b98c283623fcd2b6f3094c3735.jpg

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50 minutes ago, Joe in Winslow said:

 

2fe138b98c283623fcd2b6f3094c3735.jpg

 

I accept it is a conspiracy theory and I accept it is unproveable. I am not usually prone to conspiracy theory rhetoric but the visits and the Gaine situation do both seem awfully suspicious. If it was simply coincidence it was a lot of very convenient coincidences. 

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6 hours ago, Magox said:

I am getting a kick out of all the conspiracy theories and rewriting's of history and facts.   

 

Sammy Watkins has massively underperformed expectations and his contract.  That is an indisputable position.   The Rams traded for him and decided after one season that they would just rather lose their 2nd round pick, let Sammy play elsewhere and pay the money to Cooks.   That is a fact.  Which it would be nearly impossible to reasonably argue that the Rams didnt make the right decision.  Right?  Or do one of you want to have a go at telling me that the Rams made the wrong decision?  That is now two teams that have decided to not to continue to pursue Watkins after observing him from up close.  Another fact.  Then he goes to the Chiefs and misses over a third of the season due to injuries and puts up pedestrian numbers with 40 receptions, 3 TD's, barely over 500 yards and an uninspiring 13 yards per reception.  Even if he had played all season at the rate that he was playing, he still would have had about around 750 yards and less than 60 receptions and around 5 TD's.

 

You guys want to know what Brandin Cooks did this past year with the Rams?  80 receptions and over 1200 yards.  That is double Sammy's production from the previous year.  Same offense,  same position the only difference is the player.

 

He's played with arguably 2 of the top 5 QB's this past 2 years and he still doesn't have a combined 1000 yards receiving.

 

What's the excuse?  Seriously, I would love to hear yet the umpteenth million excuse for Sammy's shortcomings.   Let's hear it.

this post deserves a hug.  maybe even a fondle.  

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12 hours ago, Chemical said:

 

Successful offenses have 3rd options that can get open. Sammy has a great AFC championship game you think if they end up winning that game and the super bowl they care how much he was paid?

 

theyre smart because they know they can afford that contract while Mahomes is on his rookie deal. 

 

We would be lucky to have Sammy on that deal right now 

 

With Tyreek Hill's availability for 2019 in question at this time, I'm sure the Chiefs are more than happy to have Watkins available.   He's not Hill (nobody is) but he ain't Kelvin Benjamin either.


   

 

 

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Posted (edited)
6 hours ago, Magox said:

I am getting a kick out of all the conspiracy theories and rewriting's of history and facts.   

 

Sammy Watkins has massively underperformed expectations and his contract.  That is an indisputable position.   The Rams traded for him and decided after one season that they would just rather lose their 2nd round pick, let Sammy play elsewhere and pay the money to Cooks.   That is a fact.  Which it would be nearly impossible to reasonably argue that the Rams didnt make the right decision.  Right?  Or do one of you want to have a go at telling me that the Rams made the wrong decision?  That is now two teams that have decided to not to continue to pursue Watkins after observing him from up close.  Another fact.  Then he goes to the Chiefs and misses over a third of the season due to injuries and puts up pedestrian numbers with 40 receptions, 3 TD's, barely over 500 yards and an uninspiring 13 yards per reception.  Even if he had played all season at the rate that he was playing, he still would have had about around 750 yards and less than 60 receptions and around 5 TD's.

 

You guys want to know what Brandin Cooks did this past year with the Rams?  80 receptions and over 1200 yards.  That is double Sammy's production from the previous year.  Same offense,  same position the only difference is the player.

 

He's played with arguably 2 of the top 5 QB's this past 2 years and he still doesn't have a combined 1000 yards receiving.

 

What's the excuse?  Seriously, I would love to hear yet the umpteenth million excuse for Sammy's shortcomings.   Let's hear it.

 

The Rams made an aggressive attempt to keep Watkins.  That’s a “fact” for you.

 

Comparing Watkins (who was the #2 in KC) to Cooks (the #1 in LA) doesn’t really do much for me.

 

Let’s see how well these posts age this season with Hill likely out and Watkins primed to be featured.

Edited by Coach Tuesday
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46 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I accept it is a conspiracy theory and I accept it is unproveable. I am not usually prone to conspiracy theory rhetoric but the visits and the Gaine situation do both seem awfully suspicious. If it was simply coincidence it was a lot of very convenient coincidences. 

Yea. I got flammed for calling the Pegulas incompetent, but this speaks to that. 

 

Its why you hire your GM before your head coach....

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8 minutes ago, Coach Tuesday said:

 

The Rams made an aggressive attempt to keep Watkins.  That’s a “fact” for you.

 

Comparing Watkins (who was the #2 in KC) to Cooks (the #1 in LA) doesn’t really do much for me.

 

Let’s see how well these posts age this season with Hill likely out and Watkins primed to be featured.

If Sammy can just stay healthy, he’s poised to go off this year with Mahomes pitching to him and be a lock for the Pro Bowl, if not All Pro.

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Coach Tuesday said:

 

The Rams made an aggressive attempt to keep Watkins.  “Fact.”

 

Comparing Watkins (who was the #2 in KC) to Cooks (the #1 in LA) doesn’t really do much for me.

 

Let’s see how well these posts age this season with Hill likely out and Watkins primed to be featured.

 

Of course it doesn't because it goes against your narrative.  Comparing Watkins to Cooks production is extremely relevant and telling, doesn't matter if it does much for you or not.  Cooks put up more receptions and yards in one season with the Goff than Watkins did with a whole season with Goff and 2/3 of a season with Mahomes COMBINED.   Fact.

 

Also, what you stated was indeed not a  "Fact".  Facts are not opinion based, that "aggressive" attempt is a characterization by an NFL insider.  However, what is a fact is that for the same amount of money that they signed Cooks with they decided to not pay Sammy with.    Now, that is a fact.

 

And in regards to the "Let's see how well these posts age" comment.  That's kind of humorous considering that for those of us who said a couple years back that Sammy's open market value would very likely not be matched with his on-the-field production and potential injury risks and for those that were whining incessantly how it was a bad decision to not have paid him top dollar have aged extremely well for some of us and not so much for his defenders.

Edited by Magox
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Posted (edited)
19 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

Yea. I got flammed for calling the Pegulas incompetent, but this speaks to that. 

 

Its why you hire your GM before your head coach....

 

You should be "flammed" for calling the Pegulas incompetent because that's an ignorant remark.  At worst, the Pegulas are learning on the job and may have relied too heavily on people like Russ Brandon early in their Bills' ownership.  It has been repeated many times that keeping a GM and scouting staff on board until after the draft is not uncommon, even if a change will be made.  I still think it's reasonable to believe that until Whaley's abominable press conference post-Rex's firing he had at least a 50/50 shot of staying.

 

Scott, I respect that you have opinions about what you think the Bills should or shouldn't have done, but it's not reasonable to label the Pegulas as "incompetent" with respect to what they have done regarding the Bills.

 

 

21 minutes ago, Coach Tuesday said:

 

The Rams made an aggressive attempt to keep Watkins.  That’s a “fact” for you.

 

Comparing Watkins (who was the #2 in KC) to Cooks (the #1 in LA) doesn’t really do much for me.

 

Let’s see how well these posts age this season with Hill likely out and Watkins primed to be featured.

 

The only fact that really matters is that Sammy Watkins has not been a reliable high-level contributor on any team he has played for thus far in the NFL, and for a 5th overall selection that's a failure.

 

Edited by eball
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Posted (edited)
16 minutes ago, eball said:

 I still think it's reasonable to believe that until Whaley's abominable press conference post-Rex's firing he had at least a 50/50 shot of staying.

 

I think even after that they were keeping him. I believe the point when the decided they weren't keeping him was when he disagreed on strategy with their new favourite son McDermott at some point in that offseason. I suspect they decided Whaley's fate at some time during February of that year (though I believe McDermott was intending to get rid of him and make room for his own guy from day 1). 

 

As for the press conference... I still say as much as Whaley was not a great public speaker some of that was on the Pegulas. Rex was THEIR choice, he was THEIR guy.... when they admitted inside two years it was a massive error it should have been THEM who were up infront of the press to explain the decision. That is how leadership and accountaility work. I always compare it back to the Jeff Lurie example in Philly when he fired his handpicked coach Chip Kelly. He fronted up. He was the first person from the organisation infront of a camera. He spent 45 minutes taking questions from journalists. He owned his decision and was ultimately accountable for it. The Pegulas' approach was for their interim Head Coach to go first and get an absolute grilling that left the poor guy so fried he couldn't remember which of his two bad Quarterbacks he was being ordered to start in the finale (said Cardale when he meant EJ) and then the next person out in front was their GM who was clearly not seeing eye to eye with the Head Coach but whose role in the firing was ambiguous at best to get asked questions that the man who made the decision - Terry Pegula - should have been explaining. 

 

It is my biggest black mark against the Pegulas so far. It was an abdication of their responsibility. And they then ended up doing a one on one phone interview with JW afterwards to try and smooth things over. I don't care whether they "wanted" to do it. I don't care if Pegula doesn't like being in front of the media. It was his responsibility to do so. 

Edited by GunnerBill
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31 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

Yea. I got flammed for calling the Pegulas incompetent, but this speaks to that. 

 

Its why you hire your GM before your head coach....

I absolutely love the Pegulas (especially Kim 🥰) but they have issues running organizations at this point.  They won’t let Whaley hire a coach.  They hire McDermott, let Whaley stay on through the draft, and then have McDermott hire his friend.  In what world is Beane going to be able to fire McDermott?  It’s why no good team hires a coach before a GM.  It’s kinda insane.  

 

I mean look look at the Sabres.   The GM they fired last year traded for a Vezina finalist goalie; a 30 goal scorer (Kane), and O’Reilly who was the MVP of a Stanley cup champion and the Sabres were trash this year.  

 

I think the Pegulas will figure it out because they are awesome people but it’s been a struggle. 

18 minutes ago, eball said:

 

You should be "flammed" for calling the Pegulas incompetent because that's an ignorant remark.  At worst, the Pegulas are learning on the job and may have relied too heavily on people like Russ Brandon early in their Bills' ownership.  It has been repeated many times that keeping a GM and scouting staff on board until after the draft is not uncommon, even if a change will be made.  I still think it's reasonable to believe that until Whaley's abominable press conference post-Rex's firing he had at least a 50/50 shot of staying.

 

Scott, I respect that you have opinions about what you think the Bills should or shouldn't have done, but it's not reasonable to label the Pegulas as "incompetent" with respect to what they have done regarding the Bills.

 

 

 

The only fact that really matters is that Sammy Watkins has not been a reliable high-level contributor on any team he has played for thus far in the NFL, and for a 5th overall selection that's a failure.

 

1) if Sammy was here, you’d make every excuse for him.

 

2). He has played on the last 2 number offenses for 2 of the best coaches in football, who paid premiums to acquire him.  Fun fact, qbs like having several good targets to throw to.  But clearly, our offenses in the last 2 seasons were high functioning attacks.  Maybe we can trade for another fat receiver again. 

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21 minutes ago, eball said:

The only fact that really matters is that Sammy Watkins has not been a reliable high-level contributor on any team he has played for thus far in the NFL, and for a 5th overall selection that's a failure.

 

 

He was the 4th overall selection. I think Mack was 5th.

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34 minutes ago, Coach Tuesday said:

 

The Rams made an aggressive attempt to keep Watkins.  That’s a “fact” for you.

 

Comparing Watkins (who was the #2 in KC) to Cooks (the #1 in LA) doesn’t really do much for me.

 

Let’s see how well these posts age this season with Hill likely out and Watkins primed to be featured.

 

The fact is the Rams had the option of keeping Watkins or going after Cooks....they wanted Cooks.

They could have tagged Watkins but instead, they tagged Joyner.  

 

Why can't two WR's have great production numbers?  Harrison/Wayne, Taylor/Rice, Bruce/Holt, Carter/Moss etc.....they happen.

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1 minute ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

The fact is the Rams had the option of keeping Watkins or going after Cooks....they wanted Cooks.

They could have tagged Watkins but instead, they tagged Joyner.  

 

Why can't two WR's have great production numbers?  Harrison/Wayne, Taylor/Rice, Bruce/Holt, Carter/Moss etc.....they happen.

Huh?  They traded for Cooks after Sammy signed for big money with KC the day free agency started.  

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3 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

Huh?  They traded for Cooks after Sammy signed for big money with KC the day free agency started.  

 

So the Rams were willing to spend the money on Cooks and not Watkins?  

 

They let Sammy walk in FA and paid the same $16 million a year to Cooks instead.

They had the tag available and used it on Joyner instead.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000919753/article/rams-place-tag-lamarcus-joyner-watkins-set-to-be-fa

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7 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

So the Rams were willing to spend the money on Cooks and not Watkins?  

 

They let Sammy walk in FA and paid the same $16 million a year to Cooks instead.

They had the tag available and used it on Joyner instead.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000919753/article/rams-place-tag-lamarcus-joyner-watkins-set-to-be-fa

And Sammy played on the number 1 offense again. 

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why is it that the same poster that refuse to hear or make excuses for the performance of bills players, and doing just that for sammy watkins.  he's been a disappointment so far.  there's no way to argue that.  if he finally doesn't put up big numbers this year, he's officially a bust.  i think he can absolutely do it, but we'll see.

1 minute ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

And Sammy played on the number 1 offense again. 

so what?  i don't know why you think this is a good argument.  he put up lousy number in a high power offense.  that doesn't strike me as good.

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