oldmanfan Posted June 16, 2019 Share Posted June 16, 2019 12 minutes ago, mannc said: I don’t think anyone here is “assuming failure.” I’m optimistic that this is a 10-6 or better team this year. Where I part company with a lot of folks here is that I believe another ugly 6-10 season will probably mean that McD gets the hook—or should. I just don’t believe that in the modern NFL, a guy who takes over a .500 operation should get four years to start winning. It concerns me how many people are lowering the bar for this season... I would refer you to the quote I posted above with respect to Allen. It assumes failure. 6 minutes ago, ScottLaw said: The reasoning becomes "it's a full rebuild"..... as if that automatically gives them a pass for last year and this year if the team still struggles. And here you go. Two years ago they were in the playoffs, and last year broke in a rookie QB. How exactly is making the playoffs one out of two times struggling? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted June 16, 2019 Share Posted June 16, 2019 11 minutes ago, JohnC said: The problem isn't stating an A and B option when there is only an A and B option. The problem is constantly stating a preferred option and acting as if the other option is held by naïve fools. Oh I completely agree. That was where I started in this whole debate in respect of whether the Bills' approach to this rebuild was a choice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldmanfan Posted June 16, 2019 Share Posted June 16, 2019 1 minute ago, GunnerBill said: Oh I completely agree. That was where I started in this whole debate in respect of whether the Bills' approach to this rebuild was a choice. A reasonable point to argue, but the only thing that truly matters is the current HC and GM felt it was needed. So they did it, got to the playoffs in one of their two years, now have what they hope is a franchise QB and some essential pieces on D, and a lot of cap space. When people talk struggle I honestly can't understand how they define the word. Every single person on the board expects improvement. The question is to what extremes that issue is debated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColoradoBills Posted June 16, 2019 Share Posted June 16, 2019 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rock-A-Bye Beasley Posted June 16, 2019 Share Posted June 16, 2019 4 hours ago, Magox said: When I read these comments that "Watkins is better than anything we have now", I think to myself what an incredibly myopic take. Never mind the fact that Watkins hasnt put up good numbers in years or that his inability to avoid injury still plagues him to this day, but that often parroted statement is not the consideration that good GM's make. The questions they ask are " Is he worth $17m a year?" "At $17m a year do I believe he will stay healthy enough to be on the field often to make a difference on this team?", "At $17m a year, is he the kind of player that fits the DNA profile that we are looking for?" And "At $17m a year does he have the track record to justify this cost?" The Rams had him for one year, decided to give up their 2nd rounder to only decide to not re-sign him to go on to choose Cooks instead. Let that digest and marinate in some of you guys heads for a bit. Good GMs huh? Thanks for telling me what good GMs think. You don’t think Watkins could’ve helped last year? Use the rams as the moral compass but disregard the chiefs who realize that even though they have tyreek hill and Travis kelce they can afford 17 million for Sammy Watkins because they hit a grand slam with a rookie quarterback. Who’s lookin’ myopic now? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mannc Posted June 16, 2019 Share Posted June 16, 2019 28 minutes ago, oldmanfan said: I would refer you to the quote I posted above with respect to Allen. It assumes failure. It does no such thing. And at any rate, BADOL has repeatedly said he’s a huge Josh Allen fan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldmanfan Posted June 16, 2019 Share Posted June 16, 2019 (edited) 5 minutes ago, mannc said: It does no such thing. And at any rate, BADOL has repeatedly said he’s a huge Josh Allen fan. Everyone who has ever failed at something new had never done it before. He was referring to Allen and that he'll fail. Odd way to claim you're a huge fan of the guy. I'd suggest a huge fan might say he'll succeed. How exactly can you read that quote and say it does no such thing? Edited June 16, 2019 by oldmanfan 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BADOLBILZ Posted June 16, 2019 Share Posted June 16, 2019 1 hour ago, oldmanfan said: The following are your exact words from earlier in this thread regarding Allen: Everyone who has ever failed at something new had never done it before. Your words, not mine. And one could just as easily say everyone who has succeeded at something new has never done it before. Your shtick is obvious and juvenile at this point. Here is what you said that I said: "Among others when a few pages back he talks about when you are new like Allen you have to learn to be a bust or words to that effect." You have to learn to be a bust? That's utter nonsense. Mine were not words to "that effect". My take was a joking play on easy answer, low content, self-help quotes............I don't know WHAT was going thru your mind...........you have to learn to be a bust? That's not a thing........that's two things that don't belong in a thought together. If you can't see that you shouldn't be here you...........you should either see a healthcare pro about your thought process or maybe run for political office. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K-9 Posted June 16, 2019 Share Posted June 16, 2019 33 minutes ago, GunnerBill said: Oh I completely agree. That was where I started in this whole debate in respect of whether the Bills' approach to this rebuild was a choice. Well, what was it if it wasn’t s choice? What the Bills did by deciding on a specific strategy and which tactics are best used to implement it, was a series of choices and it continues to be. The problem some people seem to have is their inability to accept those choices because they don’t agree with them, which makes the Bills automatically “wrong” in choosing that course. And when it’s obvious that all of it still needs to be determined, it’s really an ignorant position to take at this time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldmanfan Posted June 16, 2019 Share Posted June 16, 2019 6 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said: Here is what you said that I said: "Among others when a few pages back he talks about when you are new like Allen you have to learn to be a bust or words to that effect." You have to learn to be a bust? That's utter nonsense. Mine were not words to "that effect". My take was a joking play on easy answer, low content, self-help quotes............I don't know WHAT was going thru your mind...........you have to learn to be a bust? That's not a thing........that's two things that don't belong in a thought together. If you can't see that you shouldn't be here you...........you should either see a healthcare pro about your thought process or maybe run for political office. I was going off memory, and then went all the way back and pulled the exact quote. Which says everyone that has failed at something new has never tried it before. In which you refer to Allen, in which you indicate he'll fail. Nice try at spinning. Now you say you were making a joke? Sure. And it's me that should run for politics? If you're such a big Allen fan why assume he'll fail? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BADOLBILZ Posted June 16, 2019 Share Posted June 16, 2019 4 minutes ago, oldmanfan said: I was going off memory, and then went all the way back and pulled the exact quote. Which says everyone that has failed at something new has never tried it before. In which you refer to Allen, in which you indicate he'll fail. Nice try at spinning. Now you say you were making a joke? Sure. And it's me that should run for politics? If you're such a big Allen fan why assume he'll fail? I also have other controversial opinions..........I believe that no matter where you go, there you are..........and water isn't dry........there's a bunch of 'em. We'll just have to agree to disagree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldmanfan Posted June 16, 2019 Share Posted June 16, 2019 3 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said: I also have other controversial opinions..........I believe that no matter where you go, there you are..........and water isn't dry........there's a bunch of 'em. We'll just have to agree to disagree. Fair enough. Let's at least agree it would be nice for the Bills to win. We can agree on that, right? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted June 16, 2019 Share Posted June 16, 2019 43 minutes ago, K-9 said: Well, what was it if it wasn’t s choice? What the Bills did by deciding on a specific strategy and which tactics are best used to implement it, was a series of choices and it continues to be. The problem some people seem to have is their inability to accept those choices because they don’t agree with them, which makes the Bills automatically “wrong” in choosing that course. And when it’s obvious that all of it still needs to be determined, it’s really an ignorant position to take at this time. Well obviously it is a series of tactical choices but the big strategic decision to rebuild was, indeed, a single choice. Nobody has said they are automatically wrong. It is simply the case that when the contrarian view is put (ie. those who are not convinced a rebuild was the right choice) there are a whole lot of you who interpret that as saying the choice the Bills made can't succeed. Which is not what they are doing. And that is why we are going around in circles. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gugny Posted June 16, 2019 Share Posted June 16, 2019 3 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said: So let me get this straight.............you don't bother to educate yourself about football............you don't live or work in WNY but you live close enough to attend all games but make little effort to do so.............you openly admit you care a lot more about the Mets than the Bills...........but you are questioning my fandom? GTFOH. You are a poser. ?♂️ I"m perfectly happy with my level of football knowledge. My drive to OP is 5 hours and I can't afford, nor do I have to time, to attend 8 games/year. I don't compare my Mets love to my Bills love; I'm a fan of both teams. I question your fandom because you refuse to acknowledge anything good about the team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K-9 Posted June 16, 2019 Share Posted June 16, 2019 16 minutes ago, GunnerBill said: Well obviously it is a series of tactical choices but the big strategic decision to rebuild was, indeed, a single choice. Nobody has said they are automatically wrong. It is simply the case that when the contrarian view is put (ie. those who are not convinced a rebuild was the right choice) there are a whole lot of you who interpret that as saying the choice the Bills made can't succeed. Which is not what they are doing. And that is why we are going around in circles. Nobody has said they made the wrong choice? Really? Then why all the complaining about how they shouldn't have cut this guy or shouldn't have traded that guy? Whenever one uses the word "shouldn't" they are by extension saying "that's wrong." If saying the rebuild wasn't the "right" choice, they are saying it's the "wrong" choice. It's a pretty binary proposition for those that do that. Any idiot should know we won't be able to say quantitatively whether or not anything was wrong until it all plays out and the final chapter on this regime is written. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Augie Posted June 16, 2019 Share Posted June 16, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, Gugny said: I"m perfectly happy with my level of football knowledge. My drive to OP is 5 hours and I can't afford, nor do I have to time, to attend 8 games/year. I don't compare my Mets love to my Bills love; I'm a fan of both teams. I question your fandom because you refuse to acknowledge anything good about the team. It’s like your kids, you don ‘t have to pick a favorite. I love Xavier basketball, it doesn’t make me a bad Bills fan. I think we have a case of “it’s not what you do, but how you do it”. Differing opinions are fine, and I can handle the heavily negative lean. I admit to leaning the other way, it’s a choice. We all have opinions. That’s fine. It’s the arrogance and abrasiveness that’s just not necessary to make a point. But to each their own.... maybe it’s a plea for attention. I’ve come to just expect it. I’ll now enjoy an afternoon of quality US Open Golf from one of the most beautiful places on the planet! . Edited June 16, 2019 by Augie 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldmanfan Posted June 16, 2019 Share Posted June 16, 2019 3 minutes ago, ScottLaw said: I said THIS year if they struggle. Why think they will? Why slant your thinking in that direction? Allen has some experience now. O line is retooled. Defense looks good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Augie Posted June 16, 2019 Share Posted June 16, 2019 (edited) 38 minutes ago, GunnerBill said: Well obviously it is a series of tactical choices but the big strategic decision to rebuild was, indeed, a single choice. Nobody has said they are automatically wrong. It is simply the case that when the contrarian view is put (ie. those who are not convinced a rebuild was the right choice) there are a whole lot of you who interpret that as saying the choice the Bills made can't succeed. Which is not what they are doing. And that is why we are going around in circles. Do you really think so? I don’t get that feel, but maybe I need to pay closer attention. People who complain about 19 years of futility need to get over something Ralph did decades ago.They are just reaching to be negative. I get frustration, but this is, IMO, unreasonable and a negative reach. In my mind, the clock starts over with the Pegulas. Rex may have bothered me more than anything Ralph ever did. Not my kind of guy. Oh well, we moved on and I’m encouraged today. I think a lot of people just get tired of others who have nothing positive to say, ever. If they do, it’s in a back-handed way and just to cover their backsides. I find you to be a great resource, and I value your opinions. I freely grant you know more about the game and the players than I do. We don’t always agree, but I never feel like you’ve been a jerk about any position you take. You post like a grown-up! That puts you well above some of the others. . Edited June 16, 2019 by Augie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K-9 Posted June 16, 2019 Share Posted June 16, 2019 7 minutes ago, oldmanfan said: Why think they will? Why slant your thinking in that direction? Allen has some experience now. O line is retooled. Defense looks good. But, but, but what if I have hope and they disappoint me again? That's scary to me. I need to protect myself in a shroud of negativity cause I just couldn't take it again. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldmanfan Posted June 16, 2019 Share Posted June 16, 2019 2 minutes ago, ScottLaw said: STOP SAYING NEGATIVE THINGS ABOUT MY FAVORITE FOOTBALL TEAM!!!!? It's just hypothetical thoughts based on my opinion of the football team. That's all. Sorry it bothers you. I hope you can be more optimistic after camp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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