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bigbill

Oliver and Hockenson, do the Bills have enough

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3 hours ago, HuSeYiN_NYC said:

I actually think it's very possible if two things happen.

 

1. Teams picking ahead of us go for at least one QB but two would be better.

 

2. Ed Oliver is there at #9 without us trading up.

 

If we stay put and Oliver is there at 9, you get Oliver and then we have more than enough resources to move back in the 1st to get Hock but it'll cost alot...

 

This draft is crazy. So much talent and I don't even scout college players the way most of you guys do. I just can tell it's loaded with talent from the little bit of research I've done. Which is why a dream scenario for me would be to trade down ONLY if Oliver is gone by #9 to anywhere between the 12th and 17th pick and pick up another 2nd and a 4th for this year (I believe moving from 9th to 17th will get us a 1st for next year also but I'm not sure).

Then we could bundle one of our 2nd round picks with our 3rd and a 5th to move back into the 1st. That way we have two 1st round picks AND a second round pick... 

 

 

 

Yeah, it's easily possible Oliver is there at #9. Could also go the other way, though. If he's there, I think they pop a few champagne corks and grab him.

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5 hours ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

Sapp sometimes was far larger, as he did have a problem with getting fat. But when he was at his best he was not all that big a guy.

 

Here's another story of him playing at 315 while fat and having a poor year for sacks and then reporting the next year "in the high 280s.". Except unlike your story, this wasn't when Sapp was near the end of his career with the Raiders, it was between his fourth and fifth years in Tampa, well before the Super Bowl win.

 

https://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/fl-xpm-1999-08-07-9908070161-story.html

 

The thing that made Sapp exceptional was his extreme quickness. Yeah, he was strong too, but it was his speed that made him frightening.

 

At the combine, he weighed in at 281, and even that light had a BMI of 37.97.  30 and over is obese, and yeah, most interior linemen would qualify, but even at 281 he was no sylph.

 

http://nflcombineresults.com/playerpage.php?f=Warren&l=Sapp&i=23696

 

Just went back and looked at the video of the Super Bowl win, and he's just not as big as your fat photos up there. He's still got a belly, but not the size of the photos higher up on this page.

 

 

 

In any case, there are guys who've played very well on the interior at lower weights. Jay Ratliff is a good example, and he played nose tackle. Most of those lighter players are exactly Oliver's type, penetrators. And Oliver has been terrific against the run even at his weight.

The fact that people are saying Oliver is comparable to Sapp is comical. The guys a Hall of Famer. Even if his weight fluctuated. Just like Donald, he’s an exception, not the rule. 

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Posted (edited)
10 minutes ago, mrags said:

The fact that people are saying Oliver is comparable to Sapp is comical. The guys a Hall of Famer. Even if his weight fluctuated. Just like Donald, he’s an exception, not the rule. 

 

 

Of course Oliver is comparable to Sapp. In hundreds of ways. Both have two arms, for a start. Both are male. But nobody said that Oliver has shown himself to be as good as Sapp was. That's nonsense. The comparisons have all been very reasonable. They are essentially pointed at the people saying you can't play interior D-line at that weight. Which is absolute nonsense, and Sapp is one of the names that should be mentioned to disprove that nonsense.

 

Fair enough that Donald, Sapp and Jay Ratliff among others are exceptions to the rule. But Oliver is an exception too. Guy played fricking nose tackle at that low weight and kicked butt.

Edited by Thurman#1
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8 hours ago, Doc Brown said:

Seems their stock has gone up in the last month so it's possible neither will be available at 9.  Unless you get a QB rush, Oliver should be gone by then.

 

Up, and Down, etc., etc.

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Posted (edited)
9 hours ago, TOboy said:

Only way to do it would be Oliver at 9 I guess and trade back up to the teens for Hock, which likely costs next years 1st.

This would be the most likely scenario. Compensation would be fairly steep though I don't think it would cost next year's 1st. Wouldn't mind Oliver and Fant either which may be more doable.

Edited by billsbackto81

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9 hours ago, Augie said:

Why not take him if he fell to #9? 

 

.....here is Bleacher Report's Tanier pick at #9.....yes?...no?...maybe?........

 

So, let's skip the usual roasting of the Bills and give them Jawaan Taylor, who's arguably the best offensive lineman in this class (there's no real consensus) and a fit for their run-heavy offense. The Bills added Ty Nsekhe and LaAdrian Waddle in free agency, but both are better stopgap starters and multiposition backups than long-term solutions at tackle. 

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25 minutes ago, OldTimeAFLGuy said:

 

.....here is Bleacher Report's Tanier pick at #9.....yes?...no?...maybe?........

 

So, let's skip the usual roasting of the Bills and give them Jawaan Taylor, who's arguably the best offensive lineman in this class (there's no real consensus) and a fit for their run-heavy offense. The Bills added Ty Nsekhe and LaAdrian Waddle in free agency, but both are better stopgap starters and multiposition backups than long-term solutions at tackle. 

There seems to be a bit of quality in the 3, 4 ,  5rounds in offensive linemen and tight ends.   Get impact players, DT LB in the early rounds and get high ceiling O-lne/TE in the later rounds.  Let those o-linemen sit for a year or two and learn how to play the pro game and then ease them into the o-line.  Teamwork and experience is what makes a o line.

 

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1 minute ago, maryland-bills-fan said:

There seems to be a bit of quality in the 3, 4 ,  5rounds in offensive linemen and tight ends.   Get impact players, DT LB in the early rounds and get high ceiling O-lne/TE in the later rounds.  Let those o-linemen sit for a year or two and learn how to play the pro game and then ease them into the o-line.  Teamwork and experience is what makes a o line.

 

 

...nice assessment and I agree....plenty of FA work has happened for OL......so DT/LB/Edge makes sense early......thanks...:thumbsup:

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9 hours ago, bigbill said:

I was just wondering if the Bills have enough draft capital to get both Oliver and Hockenson in the draft?

 

Who would you take at 9 with hopes the other player drops to 15, 16 or 17.

 

It seems both players would help to complete the offense and defense.

 

Any thought?

 

Obviously they would both need to be there at #9.  Bills would have to trade back just a couple spots, probably Cincinnati to #11 and pick one of them.  They would likely get a 3rd for that move.  Assuming we don't want to give up any 1st's next year.  We would have to trade #40 and both of our 3rds (and possibly something else) to get back into low teens.  Miami could be a possibility at #13 as it allows them to stockpile picks for lots of needs and their tanking

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I heard one FO type on the NFL channel talking with Gil and Alex.  The guy said that if a OL isn't a top 50 player in the draft don't waste a pick.  Because except for the elite guys, there are great options in FA and on other teams practice squads.  These OL just need to be sorted out as to who can grow into and adpt in the pro game.

 

But I think the Bills are going DL in Round 1.  The way I read the tea leaves is that they will target the Tytus guy from Alabama State or the small school Carolina guy in the 2/3 round and let them learn and grow behind these experienced guys that they signed this off season.  I think that might be the plan.  

 

I see Christian Wilkins in Round 1.  Has "process" written all over him and with Oliver gone and the questions with Gary I see Wilkins.  

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Thanks all, some nice insight into the possibilities.  I agree Oliver and Fant may be more doable. 

 

I don't think I would be willing to give up next years first to do this for either tight end.

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10 hours ago, mrags said:

I know that. I know there’s a few people that share this opinion with me. But I just don’t understand why there’s so many that think this kid is the 2nd coming of Reggie White. 

Comparisons are tough and are based on past draft reports. Comparisons do not carry a ton of weight for me, especially when they compare someone to a HOFer

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9 hours ago, Buffalophil1948 said:

Nothing in those stats would have something to do with going from Tyrod to Josh?

 

Average Yards/reception hasn't changed. Josh btw was not really showing much until after he came back from his injury. This isn't about Zay Jones either, it was more to illustrate that what the production is during first couple years of a TEs career is comparable to, a guy who many aren't sure if he makes the roster. 

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According to this board there are at least 15 players guaranteeed to go in the top 7 this year. Its all going to come down to the qbs, either  some get picked and talent falls to us or they dont and someone will trade up with our pick.  Win win to me

14 hours ago, #34fan said:

 

Drops WAY too many balls to be taken seriously in the first.  I like the kid, but late 2nd-Early third is where I'll leave him.

Am I off when I get a Charles Clay vibe from him?  Didnt know about the drops before but thats all I see when I hear Fant

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17 hours ago, TOboy said:

Would be incredibly unlikely.

A month ago it looked like we had a shot at Oliver. Now I'm not even sure Hockenson gets past Detroit. We may have to settle for Jonah or hope for a trade down.

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5 hours ago, Reed83HOF said:

Comparisons are tough and are based on past draft reports. Comparisons do not carry a ton of weight for me, especially when they compare someone to a HOFer

The thing is I’m not even listening to the comparisons. That’s besides the point for me. He’s still being touted as a super high pick. Top 10 at the worst for the most part. Top 3 at best. It just boggles my kind that an undersized kid that played against sub par talent his college career is so highly received. 

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1 hour ago, LABILLBACKER said:

A month ago it looked like we had a shot at Oliver. Now I'm not even sure Hockenson gets past Detroit. We may have to settle for Jonah or hope for a trade down.

The smoke is in full force now, I would be shocked if QBs shot up the board, they didn't last year and the class was better IMO. That being said I sure hope they do. Yes I want a top tier pass rusher, but an OT will be very nice consolation prize. I will be pissed if Dan Jeremiah is correct and we trade back and end up with a CB in RD1

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I personally think they go Oliver with the first pick, WR in the second and the 3rd they will target a TE possibly the other from Iowa (not sure where he’s mocked but seems more physical)

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22 hours ago, bigbill said:

I was just wondering if the Bills have enough draft capital to get both Oliver and Hockenson in the draft?

 

Who would you take at 9 with hopes the other player drops to 15, 16 or 17.

 

It seems both players would help to complete the offense and defense.

 

Any thought?

Most likely no but we might have enough for Hock & Simmons or Tillery. 

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