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Oliver and Hockenson, do the Bills have enough


bigbill

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36 minutes ago, Augie said:

Fair enough. I like his quick penetration. I don’t like Warren Sapp as a person, but was in the Tampa market when he was causing fits shooting gaps. Time will tell. Neither of our livelihoods are in danger if we guessed wrong. 

 

 

Please don’t take this too personally, but you don’t count.  

Warren Sapp has turds that weigh more than Oliver. Just saying 

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1 minute ago, mrags said:

Warren Sapp has turds that weigh more than Oliver. Just saying 

 

No, I think that was Elvis! (See other thread, or maybe not....) 

 

Sapp had maybe 10 pounds on him. My biggest worry would be the caliber of competition, but Oliver also played out of his natural position a lot. Not a fan of Sapp the person, but I watched him back in the day, and I don’t think he was the 300 they reported. I won’t pretend to “know”.  I’ll have to trust the FO on this one. 

 

 

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37 minutes ago, njbuff said:

I hope both get drafted in the top 8........... then..............

 

the Redskins get desperate in thinking Denver wants the same QB they do and the Skins give the Bills a King's ransom for the 9th overall, meaning...........

 

the Bills trade the 9th overall for 15, Washingtons 2nd rounder and their 2020 first rounder.

 

Talk about making out like bandits. Then hopefully the Redskins are the worst team in the NFL in 2018.

 

.......................... then I woke up and came back to reality. ?

 

Let’s keep going...

 

Josh Allen is the MVP of the league next season, Bills make a deep playoff run, Washington picks #1 overall, and again NEXT year, we trade out of the first pick because the QB class is loaaaaaadeed in 2020. We get another King’s Ransom next year.

 

I’m gone to bed. 

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1 hour ago, bigbill said:

I was just wondering if the Bills have enough draft capital to get both Oliver and Hockenson in the draft?

 

Who would you take at 9 with hopes the other player drops to 15, 16 or 17.

 

It seems both players would help to complete the offense and defense.

 

Any thought?

 

I don’t think so.  It now sounds like Eddie Oliver will be off the board by the time the Bills draft at 9.   But even if the Bills do get him at 9, they they will have to jump from round 2 to the middle of the first to get Hockenson.  That likely will take a 1st round pick in 2020.  I don’t see that happening 

 

 

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10 minutes ago, Augie said:

 

No, I think that was Elvis! (See other thread, or maybe not....) 

 

Sapp had maybe 10 pounds on him. My biggest worry would be the caliber of competition, but Oliver also played out of his natural position a lot. Not a fan of Sapp the person, but I watched him back in the day, and I don’t think he was the 300 they reported. I won’t pretend to “know”.  I’ll have to trust the FO on this one. 

 

 

Its hard to go back and find what his playing weight was. I’ve seen a link ow that says he’s 300 at the age of 46ish.  

 

Googling his playing weight I’ve seen reports that he weighed up to 340ish at one point but lost close to 50lbs. 

 

To my eyes, just looking at them, it’s not close. Sapp was far larger and it’s not close. 

Edited by mrags
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With DL players Gary, which I wouldn't take at 9, and Sweat having physical concerns, the Bills are in a sense knocked out of the top 9 derby which would appear to include Oliver and possibly Hockensen.

 

If so, no doubt, imo, as I play Captain Obvious, McBeane will be trying to move up or back.

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1 minute ago, mrags said:

Ira hard to go back and find what his playing weight was. I’ve seen a link ow that says he’s 300 at the age of 46ish.  

 

Googling his playing weight I’ve seen reports that he weighed up to 340ish at one point but lost close to 50lbs. 

 

To my eyes, just looking at them, it’s not close. Sapp was far larger and it’s not close. 

 

I may be WAY off, but Sapp was a lighter guy, under 300# when effective. He lived on his quickness. I googled it and got 300. I don’t think he was that. He was the lighter penetrator. Quick and disruptive. Anyway, he was known around town as a jerk. 

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Just now, Augie said:

 

I may be WAY off, but Sapp was a lighter guy, under 300# when effective. He lived on his quickness. I googled it and got 300. I don’t think he was that. He was the lighter penetrator. Quick and disruptive. Anyway, he was known around town as a jerk. 

He was a jerk. He was also an incredible ball player. But I think if he was 300, he was every bit of it. Looking at him, he looked larger. I think Oliver weighed in at the combine at 285. That 15lbs is actually a lot of weight. But I don’t think that’s just it, chances are he bilked up for the combine and played at a lower weight. Looking at him on film and in pics, he looks much smaller than Sapp. 

A1F30660-C8E8-4E87-842B-45B8CB70792F.jpeg

ABA1C4CC-41E6-4EB6-A247-9FD23C8D0757.jpeg

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1 hour ago, bigbill said:

I was just wondering if the Bills have enough draft capital to get both Oliver and Hockenson in the draft?

 

Who would you take at 9 with hopes the other player drops to 15, 16 or 17.

 

It seems both players would help to complete the offense and defense.

 

Any thought?

Oliver may not make it out of the top 3 and Hockenson likely will be gone by 15.  Would I be shocked in a draft so deep in DL that Hock and Fant fell to the late first round?  No.  Many on this board are probably correct in that teams don't value TE as first round position.  I disagree and would have no issue with Hockenson at 9 or Fant at 15ish.  I would prefer Fant and an extra pick.  But I don't see Oliver making it past the Bills at 9.  

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11 minutes ago, mrags said:

He was a jerk. He was also an incredible ball player. But I think if he was 300, he was every bit of it. Looking at him, he looked larger. I think Oliver weighed in at the combine at 285. That 15lbs is actually a lot of weight. But I don’t think that’s just it, chances are he bilked up for the combine and played at a lower weight. Looking at him on film and in pics, he looks much smaller than Sapp. 

A1F30660-C8E8-4E87-842B-45B8CB70792F.jpeg

ABA1C4CC-41E6-4EB6-A247-9FD23C8D0757.jpeg

 

Fat Sapp was not the best Sapp. I’m NOT trying to say Oliver is HOF material today (as Sapp was) , but he’s not too different from A. Donald in weight. Less power, but I’d like to see him as a Bill.  The game has gotten lighter and faster, look at LB’s. It’s all about quick pressure on the QB, best done up the gut. The game has evolved.  Good thing I don’t get to decide, as a guy who watches from his couch. I’ll trust the FO. 

 

 

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5 minutes ago, Ethan in Portland said:

Oliver may not make it out of the top 3 and Hockenson likely will be gone by 15.  Would I be shocked in a draft so deep in DL that Hock and Fant fell to the late first round?  No.  Many on this board are probably correct in that teams don't value TE as first round position.  I disagree and would have no issue with Hockenson at 9 or Fant at 15ish.  I would prefer Fant and an extra pick.  But I don't see Oliver making it past the Bills at 9.  

 

You are ok with waiting 2-4 years for your TE to develop and contribute more than 40 catches and 500 yards?

 

This is the level of production you can expect with your first rd pick:

 

image.thumb.png.37655f039a2c75b8f1670be60dd6469e.png

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I actually think it's very possible if two things happen.

 

1. Teams picking ahead of us go for at least one QB but two would be better.

 

2. Ed Oliver is there at #9 without us trading up.

 

If we stay put and Oliver is there at 9, you get Oliver and then we have more than enough resources to move back in the 1st to get Hock but it'll cost alot...

 

This draft is crazy. So much talent and I don't even scout college players the way most of you guys do. I just can tell it's loaded with talent from the little bit of research I've done. Which is why a dream scenario for me would be to trade down ONLY if Oliver is gone by #9 to anywhere between the 12th and 17th pick and pick up another 2nd and a 4th for this year (I believe moving from 9th to 17th will get us a 1st for next year also but I'm not sure).

Then we could bundle one of our 2nd round picks with our 3rd and a 5th to move back into the 1st. That way we have two 1st round picks AND a second round pick... 

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9 minutes ago, Augie said:

 

Fat Sapp was not the best Sapp. I’m NOT trying to say Oliver is HOF material today (as Sapp was) , but he’s not too different from A. Donald in weight. Less power, but I’d like to see him as a Bill.  The game has gotten lighter and faster, look at LB’s. It’s all about quick pressure on the QB, best done up the gut. The game has evolved.  Good thing I don’t get to decide, as a guy who watches from his couch. I’ll trust the FO. 

 

 

I get it. I don’t agree with it, but I get it. The Donald argument has been debated ad nauseam. For one, Donald is the best in football. He’s also the exception, not the rule. 

 

I just don’t see Oliver being effective. I hope we don’t get him. But if we do, I’ll be pulling for him just any other Bill. And I’ll hope this FO knows what they’re doing. 

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1 minute ago, mrags said:

I get it. I don’t agree with it, but I get it. The Donald argument has been debated ad nauseam. For one, Donald is the best in football. He’s also the exception, not the rule. 

 

I just don’t see Oliver being effective. I hope we don’t get him. But if we do, I’ll be pulling for him just any other Bill. And I’ll hope this FO knows what they’re doing. 

 

I’m with you! Time will tell. 

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29 minutes ago, mrags said:

He was a jerk. He was also an incredible ball player. But I think if he was 300, he was every bit of it. Looking at him, he looked larger. I think Oliver weighed in at the combine at 285. That 15lbs is actually a lot of weight. But I don’t think that’s just it, chances are he bilked up for the combine and played at a lower weight. Looking at him on film and in pics, he looks much smaller than Sapp. 

A1F30660-C8E8-4E87-842B-45B8CB70792F.jpeg

ABA1C4CC-41E6-4EB6-A247-9FD23C8D0757.jpeg

 

From all I’ve seen, sapp peaked at 334 lbs but entered the league at 285 and returned to that weight for the raiders. 

 

It seems you found a pic at his heaviest there

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I don't waste too much time worrying about defensive players not drafted at this point.  All focus should be on have we and are we adequately building around Josh Allen.  

 

I want to be good enough on defense along with a talented defensive minded head coach.  I want to be a team built on offense to give Allen every chance to be great.

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1 minute ago, White Linen said:

I don't waste too much time worrying about defensive players not drafted at this point.  All focus should be on have we and are we adequately building around Josh Allen.  

 

I want to be good enough on defense along with a talented defensive minded head coach.  I want to be a team built on offense to give Allen every chance to be great.

I’m sure they will get plenty of attention in the draft, but I’m amazed at what they accomplished in FA. 

 

Go BPA early! Get elite talent! 

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8 minutes ago, NoSaint said:

 

From all I’ve seen, sapp peaked at 334 lbs but entered the league at 285 and returned to that weight for the raiders. 

 

It seems you found a pic at his heaviest there

Really?

 

C7B276A2-D751-4EC2-90B4-25968C27628F.jpeg

 

 

 

Id also argue that his best football came when he played at a heavier weight with the Bucs. 

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1 minute ago, mrags said:

Really?

 

C7B276A2-D751-4EC2-90B4-25968C27628F.jpeg

 

 

 

Id also argue that his best football came when he played at a heavier weight with the Bucs. 

 

There were some pretty detailed articles that popped right up. Mayday be fabricated. Lying about weights was likely pretty common 25 years ago. But yea pretty specific in the weights listed.

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6 minutes ago, NoSaint said:

 

There were some pretty detailed articles that popped right up. Mayday be fabricated. Lying about weights was likely pretty common 25 years ago. But yea pretty specific in the weights listed.

 

Plus the game has changed dramatically in the last 25 years. I’m not saying I know what’s best because I’m an expert, but I doubt Oliver is available as an option. If he is, and we pass, I’ll trust the pros who do this for a living. If they fail? We can still pay the mortgage. 

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