Whaley is an idiot.

[Victory Formation]

Whaley is and has never been an idiot, he's a good guy. Clearly a couple notches below Beane but can ya do? Beane is a rising star. Pegula would be foolish to ever ever ever let him go. Now I see why Sean McD waited a year for his guy. Smart man.

[DrDawkinstein]

3 hours ago, Bill from NYC said:

This imo is not true. It is about the team winning, not about having a "good" corner for a few years. The Bills did not have a good quarterback. They walked away from an already great one as well as another very promising qb (Watson) and drafted a cornerback. There can be no justification in this.

 

Stupidity like this is reminiscent of the Levy/Jauron years.....an almost unmatched era of idiocy.

 

It's a very simple justification actually.

 

Whaley wasn't making the picks as he was already on the way out.

McD sure as HECK wasnt going to pin his career on a QB which was researched and graded by a GM and team of scouts that were on their way out, and who historically was not good at finding a QB.

 

No matter who was available that draft, McD was not picking a QB. He was always going to wait until HIS GM came in, and they had a full year of scouting with a new staff. Especially knowing that the next year's QB class was going to be a generational class.

 

It's great that Mahomes and Watson were there and are having nice careers. Didnt matter to our staff which was going through a major turnover. (Another reason the Bills revolving door in the FO has always been a detriment to the team)

[Bill from NYC]

2 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

It's a very simple justification actually.

 

Whaley wasn't making the picks as he was already on the way out.

McD sure as HECK wasnt going to pin his career on a QB which was researched and graded by a GM and team of scouts that were on their way out, and who historically was not good at finding a QB.

 

No matter who was available that draft, McD was not picking a QB. He was always going to wait until HIS GM came in, and they had a full year of scouting with a new staff. Especially knowing that the next year's QB class was going to be a generational class.

 

It's great that Mahomes and Watson were there and are having nice careers. Didnt matter to our staff which was going through a major turnover. (Another reason the Bills revolving door in the FO has always been a detriment to the team)

He wound up doing so unwittingly. It is very possible that he will be judged as the man who gave two excellent QBs away to draft a corner.

 

If he didn't know how badly the team needed a quarterback (in lieu of a cornerback) he had no business being given this much authority.

[quincy]

12 minutes ago, NewDayBills said:

Whaley is and has never been an idiot, he's a good guy. Clearly a couple notches below Beane but can ya do? Beane is a rising star. Pegula would be foolish to ever ever ever let him go. Now I see why Sean McD waited a year for his guy. Smart man.

 

Beane would be smart to distance himself a bit more from McDermott imo.

 

McDermott has all the makings of appearing to be a 1 time, 1 organization head coach.

 

Beane appears and acts like a natural, McDermott for me is an uninspiring grinder. I hope Daboll can get the best out of Josh Allen.

 

The power initially lied with McDermott, in time I hope that Pegula can see it to give Beane the upper hand.  

[BillsfaninChicago]

For what it is worth it was essentially his roster that ended the drought.

[hondo in seattle]

2 hours ago, MAJBobby said:

Ahhh the typical I am ok to call someone an idiot, but then again when it is thrown right back in my face I get offended.

 

Huh?

 

I've never called anyone an idiot - not Whaley, not my fellow posters, no one.  In fact, you'll find I've ranted against ad hominen attacks a few times on this site.

 

My attitude toward Bills supporters is something like this...

 

We few, we happy few, we band of brothers;
For he who suffers Bills fandom with me
Shall be my brother.

 

 

[MAJBobby]

3 minutes ago, hondo in seattle said:

 

Huh?

 

I've never called anyone an idiot - not Whaley, not my fellow posters, no one.  In fact, you'll find I've ranted against ad hominen attacks a few times on this site.

 

My attitude toward Bills supporters is something like this...

 

We few, we happy few, we band of brothers;
For he who suffers Bills fandom with me
Shall be my brother.

 

 

No I get it but the entire premise of the thread is Whaley is an idiot, because of the Mahomes trade.  So my response was the people that think that was Whaley's call really are the idiots.

[hondo in seattle]

6 minutes ago, MAJBobby said:

No I get it but the entire premise of the thread is Whaley is an idiot, because of the Mahomes trade.  So my response was the people that think that was Whaley's call really are the idiots.

 

Okay.  I get the context now.

 

And, as far as that goes, Whaley was far from an idiot.  I remember SI calling him a 'rising star' or something like that when he was with the Steelers.  He was and is a bright guy.

 

In fact, no GM is an idiot.  All of them know far more about football than we fans do.  But some GMs are better than others.   Sadly, in his time with us, Whaley did not outperform his GM peers.  

[MAJBobby]

2 minutes ago, hondo in seattle said:

 

Okay.  I get the context now.

 

And, as far as that goes, Whaley was far from an idiot.  I remember SI calling him a 'rising star' or something like that when he was with the Steelers.  He was and is a bright guy.

 

In fact, no GM is an idiot.  All of them know far more about football than we fans do.  But some GMs are better than others.   Sadly, in his time with us, Whaley did not outperform his GM peers.  

He didn't, 

 

   But I also think he had handcuffs on him the entire time he was the "GM".  Meaning he was never really the GM.  Never was able to pick his coach, so therefore really just relegated to senior scout.  I don't think he ever really had the power of GM

Edited April 22, 2019 by MAJBobby

[iinii]

Still? Again? When will this end?

[hondo in seattle]

16 minutes ago, MAJBobby said:

He didn't, 

 

   But I also think he had handcuffs on him the entire time he was the "GM".  Meaning he was never really the GM.  Never was able to pick his coach, so therefore really just relegated to senior scout.  I don't think he ever really had the power of GM

 

Certainly Rex's failed tenure contributed to Whaley's demise and Whaley didn't choose Rex.

But  you bring up a more interesting point about NFL leadership models.  There are three in use:

 

*  HC works for GM.

*  GM works for HC.

*  GM and HC are coequals.

 

They all have pros and cons.  The Pegulas seem to prefer the co-equal approach and I'm not convinced.  

 

 

[Gugny]

21 minutes ago, hondo in seattle said:

 

Okay.  I get the context now.

 

And, as far as that goes, Whaley was far from an idiot.  I remember SI calling him a 'rising star' or something like that when he was with the Steelers.  He was and is a bright guy.

 

In fact, no GM is an idiot.  All of them know far more about football than we fans do.  But some GMs are better than others.   Sadly, in his time with us, Whaley did not outperform his GM peers.  

 

He actually did.  Near the end of his tenure, someone wrote (I cannot find the link) that Doug Whaley had the highest percentage of draft picks (made during his GM career) still on NFL rosters than any of his GM peers.

[Rico]

14 hours ago, Happy Gilmore said:

 

 

Actually, I'm surprised Rico hasn't stopped by to take his usual dump on Whaley.  He usually never misses an opportunity 

Well, this thread is flawed. Whaley has nothing to do with not taking Mahomes, and to be honest, I don’t want him anyways, I’m happy with Josh right now. We’ll soon see who has the better intangibles when it comes to being a winner.

 

That being said,  a new thread bashing Whaley is always appreciated. I particularly like reading the posters who still defend him.  

[DrDawkinstein]

1 hour ago, Bill from NYC said:

He wound up doing so unwittingly. It is very possible that he will be judged as the man who gave two excellent QBs away to draft a corner.

 

If he didn't know how badly the team needed a quarterback (in lieu of a cornerback) he had no business being given this much authority.

 

No, he knew exactly how badly this team needed a QB. That's the whole point. He wasnt going to half-ass it on bad info and get it wrong. He'd rather have a bad first season and be in a prime spot to take a QB with his new GM at the helm. As it worked out, the Bills made the playoffs for the first time in 17 years that season, AND we got our guy in the next draft.

 

Seems to me they played it perfectly given the circumstances.

 

Not sure what yall are so upset about, other than you think the Mahomes would do just as well thrown to the wolves his rookie year as he did getting to sit a year behind Alex Smith and be personally tutored by Andy Reid. But those situations arent at all similar to each other.

[Victory Formation]

1 hour ago, quincy said:

 

Beane would be smart to distance himself a bit more from McDermott imo.

 

McDermott has all the makings of appearing to be a 1 time, 1 organization head coach.

 

Beane appears and acts like a natural, McDermott for me is an uninspiring grinder. I hope Daboll can get the best out of Josh Allen.

 

The power initially lied with McDermott, in time I hope that Pegula can see it to give Beane the upper hand.  

Yep to everything. I hope Beane gets to hire his own HC if he drafts well again in 2019 and the roster underperforms. We'll see. Lots of contingencies and what ifs on your end and mine. McD could coach us to 12 wins, that could be a reality as well.

[C.Biscuit97]

1) Whaley and McBeane has the same record after 2 years.

 

2) if Whaley was really running the draft, the Pegulas are terrible owners.

 

3) there were plenty of reports of Whaley loving Watson before the draft. 

[Bill from NYC]

8 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

No, he knew exactly how badly this team needed a QB. That's the whole point. He wasnt going to half-ass it on bad info and get it wrong. He'd rather have a bad first season and be in a prime spot to take a QB with his new GM at the helm. As it worked out, the Bills made the playoffs for the first time in 17 years that season, AND we got our guy in the next draft.

 

Seems to me they played it perfectly given the circumstances.

 

Not sure what yall are so upset about, other than you think the Mahomes would do just as well thrown to the wolves his rookie year as he did getting to sit a year behind Alex Smith and be personally tutored by Andy Reid. But those situations arent at all similar to each other.

Bad info? Watson carried his team on his back to a National Championship! Teams raced up to draft these players. Mahomes (as we know) has every tool one could possibly have. Some posters on this board seemed to have a pretty clear picture of the situation.

 

Your bottom paragraph makes a good deal of sense Dr. D, but it doesn't mean that it was right to forsake 2 big time QB prospects and draft a corner.

 

As I said, if McDermott doesn't win, this will be his legacy, not the term "process" that he shamelessly co-opted from Coach Saban.

43 minutes ago, Gugny said:

 

He actually did.  Near the end of his tenure, someone wrote (I cannot find the link) that Doug Whaley had the highest percentage of draft picks (made during his GM career) still on NFL rosters than any of his GM peers.

Maybe but you are supposed to win football games.

 

Why do you think that nobody has hired him as GM if he is that good.

 

Serious question.....

[Gugny]

3 minutes ago, Bill from NYC said:

 

Why do you think that nobody has hired him as GM if he is that good.

 

Serious question.....

 

It's a good question.  Maybe he's been offered Asst. positions and passed them up.  We're talking about a guy who was never able to choose his own Head Coach.  I think his scouting history with Pittsburgh is undeniably solid.  I think, based on the number of guys who "stuck," his drafting during his Buffalo tenure was decent.

 

Who knew Sam Watkins would turn out to be a horrible teammate and such a prima dona?  That pick and EJ are the two that seem to be the most common knocks against him.

 

I don't think his error was necessarily picking EJ.  I think his error was sticking with EJ for too long.

 

What would the fanbase think if the QB position was handled more like DEN (Elway's 15 swings/misses) or NYJ (Hackenberg AND Petty (and Geno Smiff, for that matter)?

 

Not many GMs have consistent success with drafting/trades/FA.  I think the vast majority of NFL GMs can be criticized.  I just don't think Whaley's track record warrants the amount of criticism he gets; especially under his VERY UNIQUE set of circumstances (couldn't pick his own HC, half-dead owner --> inept owner, etc.).

[Bill from NYC]

1 minute ago, Gugny said:

 

It's a good question.  Maybe he's been offered Asst. positions and passed them up.  We're talking about a guy who was never able to choose his own Head Coach.  I think his scouting history with Pittsburgh is undeniably solid.  I think, based on the number of guys who "stuck," his drafting during his Buffalo tenure was decent.

 

Who knew Sam Watkins would turn out to be a horrible teammate and such a prima dona?  That pick and EJ are the two that seem to be the most common knocks against him.

 

I don't think his error was necessarily picking EJ.  I think his error was sticking with EJ for too long.

 

What would the fanbase think if the QB position was handled more like DEN (Elway's 15 swings/misses) or NYJ (Hackenberg AND Petty (and Geno Smiff, for that matter)?

 

Not many GMs have consistent success with drafting/trades/FA.  I think the vast majority of NFL GMs can be criticized.  I just don't think Whaley's track record warrants the amount of criticism he gets; especially under his VERY UNIQUE set of circumstances (couldn't pick his own HC, half-dead owner --> inept owner, etc.).

This is true. I do however think that a good GM needs 10x the discipline that Whaley had.

 

As far as EJ, the team never should have been in the position in which they were forced to draft a QB in that horrible QB draft. Remember G Man, Whaley traded down 8 spots and then drafted EJ. That tells me that he was ready to lose him and draft Smith. The entire situation was embarrassingly stupid.

[C.Biscuit97]

6 minutes ago, Bill from NYC said:

This is true. I do however think that a good GM needs 10x the discipline that Whaley had.

 

As far as EJ, the team never should have been in the position in which they were forced to draft a QB in that horrible QB draft. Remember G Man, Whaley traded down 8 spots and then drafted EJ. That tells me that he was ready to lose him and draft Smith. The entire situation was embarrassingly stupid.

He also traded down, got an extra pick that become Kiko (runner up for DPoY), who blew his knee and was still traded for McCoy.  And for all the hate EJ gets, guess who has a higher rookie qb rating him or Allen (in no way I’m saying Allen won’t be better but facts do matter).

 

youre my guy Bill but when you don’t like something, you ignore all the positives. Whaley has his faults but man, some of you go completely overboard.  I bet after his first year or 2, we had a lot of similar posts about how good he was like we do with McBeane.

 

side note, another Buffalo GM got trashed when he got fired in Tim Murray.  Well, clearly he was the problem as the Sabres regressed in points, a goalie he traded for was one of the best, Kane was a 30 goal scorer, and O’Reilly had a career year.  Similar to all those terrible players Whaley picked starting for other teams on the nfl.

 

P.S.  2017 Qb draft was considered a bad one and not as good as 2018 yet the top 3 of 2017 might be the best of the two classes. 

Edited April 22, 2019 by C.Biscuit97