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Clowney and the Texans are still far apart.

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8 hours ago, Shaw66 said:

The concept makes sense.  The problem is that they don't have much time left before the draft.  Bill's and Houston might agree, but Bill's and Clowney would have to agree too.  It's not clear that the Bill's would want to pay more than Houston. 

shiny object.  pass. 

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I would seriously have to start doubting Beane if he acquired Clowney, oft injured and good against the run.. Kinda sounds like Lawson a little, only 100 million dollars more expensive. Clowney is not an impact pass rusher, however he is pretty elite against the run.. He also generally plays the same spot as Hughes in the 4-3 set and it’s not always effective to swap to the other side. He’s a good player, but he’s always dinged up (he does play through it generally) and hes wanting top 5 money as a defensive end. The reason Houston isn’t paying him is simple, they want to pay him as an outside 3-4 linebacker and he isn’t having it. I would expect him to play his franchise tag out this season and be gone next year 

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9 hours ago, purple haze said:

They could throw more guarantees in whatever deal.  That would be more important to him than the overall number which is smoke and mirrors most times anyway. 

 

 

I am not in favor of big money up front guarantee contracts for guys who do not come up through your own system.  The Bills just painfully exited bad contracts and cap hell.  Let’s not put ourselves back into it.

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9 hours ago, Augie said:

I don’t really follow the guy, but it sounds like Clowney wants to get paid for his hype, not his production. Mario Williams actually played well, for a while. 

 

Yes, the Mario Williams experience still lingers with me. Played great for a few games, got injured, played meh, got injured again, rinse and repeat. We're better off drafting Oliver than betting a huge contact on Clowney.

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56 minutes ago, Rc2catch said:

I would seriously have to start doubting Beane if he acquired Clowney, oft injured and good against the run.. Kinda sounds like Lawson a little, only 100 million dollars more expensive. Clowney is not an impact pass rusher, however he is pretty elite against the run.. He also generally plays the same spot as Hughes in the 4-3 set and it’s not always effective to swap to the other side. He’s a good player, but he’s always dinged up (he does play through it generally) and hes wanting top 5 money as a defensive end. The reason Houston isn’t paying him is simple, they want to pay him as an outside 3-4 linebacker and he isn’t having it. I would expect him to play his franchise tag out this season and be gone next year 

Clowney may have not had the sack totals of the other guys but he is great against the run and was 1st or 2nd in the league in pressures. I’m not completely sold but would get on board if it happened. May want Clark more due to compensation but not sure how he fits in culture wise 

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6 hours ago, Freddie's Dead said:

N'Keal, kids, N'Keal.  Enough with the K'Neal.  How can you love a guy when you can't spell his name correctly?

 

Ankiel?

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Well I just made the mistake of disagreeing with @NateGeary on Twitter about trading for Clowney. #flamethrower

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28 minutes ago, PromoTheRobot said:

Well I just made the mistake of disagreeing with @NateGeary on Twitter about trading for Clowney. #flamethrower

Giving up anything of value for Clowney would be a mistake. Paying him would be bad enough. 

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Posted (edited)
1 minute ago, CommonCents said:

Giving up anything of value for Clowney would be a mistake. Paying him would be bad enough. 

 

Yeah well tell that to Nate and his zombie army. I'm getting burnt to a crisp. That guy is diving into Twitter a little too deep, like you can't be a media star without coming down hard on anyone who disagrees with you.

Edited by PromoTheRobot

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1 hour ago, ChanticleerBillsFan said:

Clowney may have not had the sack totals of the other guys but he is great against the run and was 1st or 2nd in the league in pressures. I’m not completely sold but would get on board if it happened. May want Clark more due to compensation but not sure how he fits in culture wise 

The pressure stat doesn’t always tell the story though.. Sure it looks good as a stat but take Hughes for instance, he flies off the line and runs all the way around the left tackle to “pressure” the quarterback who takes two steps forward and completes a pass. Counts as a pressure but it doesn’t actually do much. It’s not in your face pressure like a Watt or Mack give you. Not dogging Hughes or clowney but that stat doesn’t tell much. I’d rather see the stats for QB knockdowns as that means they were actually close to a sack. I don’t follow Houston too closely but I do generally watch 3-5 games a year of them and clowney is mostly a no show in games I’ve seen. I couldn’t get behind bringing the guy in and paying him 100 million to line up on the same line as Hughes who has arguably been more reliable and better at a lower tiered salary. We can grab a pass rusher in rounds 1 or 2 who could match clowneys impact on a game I guess is the simplified version I should have just said 

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Clowney on a rookie deal - YES

 

Clowney on his next contract - No

 

As good as he is, I just don't see deals like this fitting the mold of a perennial winning organization.

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11 hours ago, Shaw66 said:

The concept makes sense.  The problem is that they don't have much time left before the draft.  Bill's and Houston might agree, but Bill's and Clowney would have to agree too.  It's not clear that the Bill's would want to pay more than Houston. 

 

 

Shaw!  Players love Buffalo.  It's a no brainer he would sign here.

 

 

*sits and waits for both sides*

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I'd rather have Frank Clark, if the Bills were going this route 

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1 hour ago, Rc2catch said:

The pressure stat doesn’t always tell the story though.. Sure it looks good as a stat but take Hughes for instance, he flies off the line and runs all the way around the left tackle to “pressure” the quarterback who takes two steps forward and completes a pass. Counts as a pressure but it doesn’t actually do much. It’s not in your face pressure like a Watt or Mack give you. Not dogging Hughes or clowney but that stat doesn’t tell much. I’d rather see the stats for QB knockdowns as that means they were actually close to a sack. I don’t follow Houston too closely but I do generally watch 3-5 games a year of them and clowney is mostly a no show in games I’ve seen. I couldn’t get behind bringing the guy in and paying him 100 million to line up on the same line as Hughes who has arguably been more reliable and better at a lower tiered salary. We can grab a pass rusher in rounds 1 or 2 who could match clowneys impact on a game I guess is the simplified version I should have just said 

I can agree with that. What you think about Clark? I see him as a better fit in terms of rushing the passer

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1 hour ago, Rc2catch said:

The pressure stat doesn’t always tell the story though.. Sure it looks good as a stat but take Hughes for instance, he flies off the line and runs all the way around the left tackle to “pressure” the quarterback who takes two steps forward and completes a pass. Counts as a pressure but it doesn’t actually do much. It’s not in your face pressure like a Watt or Mack give you. Not dogging Hughes or clowney but that stat doesn’t tell much. I’d rather see the stats for QB knockdowns as that means they were actually close to a sack. I don’t follow Houston too closely but I do generally watch 3-5 games a year of them and clowney is mostly a no show in games I’ve seen. I couldn’t get behind bringing the guy in and paying him 100 million to line up on the same line as Hughes who has arguably been more reliable and better at a lower tiered salary. We can grab a pass rusher in rounds 1 or 2 who could match clowneys impact on a game I guess is the simplified version I should have just said 

 

This.  Brady is a different QB when he gets knocked down a couple times.  He is not effected at all if he has to step up in the pocket.  And since he’s made a deal with the devil, I fully expect him to keep playing until he’s 45.  

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2 hours ago, ChanticleerBillsFan said:

Clowney may have not had the sack totals of the other guys but he is great against the run and was 1st or 2nd in the league in pressures. I’m not completely sold but would get on board if it happened. May want Clark more due to compensation but not sure how he fits in culture wise 

This is so true and can play LDE very effectively. I always look at it like this. Is the guy going to make offensive coordinators game plan, the answer is yes. He wreaks people’s game plans and that’s good with me 

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12 hours ago, vincec said:

Both teams need an edge rusher. If Houston, who knows Clooney best, doesn’t think he’s worth what he is asking for then why would he be worth it to the Bills? If they want a new DE then draft one with their first pick.

But Clooney is so dreamy the offensive linemen would probably just stand there and admire him while he had a free shot at the QB.

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57 minutes ago, ChanticleerBillsFan said:

I can agree with that. What you think about Clark? I see him as a better fit in terms of rushing the passer

I don’t think Seattle can let him go, unless they decide to go full rebuild cause Wilson won’t sign or play there. But I do think he’d be a better fit here than clowney, I haven’t seen what he’s looking for in terms of contract either though and definitely have not watched him as much as I’ve seen Houston play. Seattle game is an immediate turn the channel for me 

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Yeah, I’m in the just draft an edge rusher at 9 camp.  It’s definitely the play here.

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12 hours ago, Augie said:

I don’t really follow the guy, but it sounds like Clowney wants to get paid for his hype, not his production. Mario Williams actually played well, for a while. 

 

That's a great way to put it and definitely how I see it.  

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4 hours ago, BuffaloBill said:

 

 

I am not in favor of big money up front guarantee contracts for guys who do not come up through your own system.  The Bills just painfully exited bad contracts and cap hell.  Let’s not put ourselves back into it.

I hear you, and I don't disagree.  But if the Bills want to do business there is a price to pay, one way or the other.  I'd rather pay up front than backload money.  That causes more trouble: see Clay, Charles and Dareus, Marcel.  

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i have a different view vs the group on this one.  Clowney has been to 3 consecutive probowls in 4 yrs of play (not counting his lost to injury rookie season).  hes 26 years old.  Not only is he consistent at a good level, he also has game changing ability.  Our defense is very solid and adding a playmaker on the defensive side of the ball could put it way over the top.

 

The proposed trade would finish off the defense and allow the team to keep stockpiling young offensive talent around JA.  A flip w HOU for Clowney would allow us to take Fant or Irv Smith, or one of the WRs.  We also could jump up from that spot and back into the teens if one of the OL (Jonah Williams please!) or Hock slid for whatever reason.  

 

Some have said in a draft w this much DL talent, why would you do this?  You would bc we cant trade back from 9 to pick up an extra offensive 1st rounder while still getting a blue chip defender.  If we trade back (lets say w OAK), we would be looking at a 2nd tier DT, where as with this scenario we would net a pro bowl end who can be moved around on the defense. 

 

From a flexibility standpoint, this helpos us bridge the gap past Lorax or allows us to move on from Shaq if needed, so helps us deal with turnover beyond just this next year.  

 

we have tons of money to spend so i dont think griping over value applies here.  As long as JA remains on his rookie deal, we should have plenty of $ to spend for the foreseeable future.  When JA comes off the rookie deal, you can let Clowney move on or you can at that point start getting home town discounts on people staying bc we hopfully will be in the perennial SB contender list at that point.  

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12 hours ago, Ethan in Portland said:

Clowney is not worth the money.  He is not a top 10 DE. Not even close.  Yes he is better than Lawson but not at the price he thinks he is worth.  To take on his contract the most the Bills should give up is a second round pick.  But I wouldn't do it.  They have a ton of cap space next year and some of the deals signed this year and last will come off the books. Save the money for next off-season.  2019 is all about Josh Allen and determining if he is the franchise QB. That is why I was ok with them chasing AB.  With the WR signings they have made it is time to double down on TE and OT.  And draft youth on the DL.  Not overpay for hype.

 

I’m in agreement.  He’s a very good DE with the tools to be great, but he hasn’t been.  We’d have to pay the price for an elite DE to acquire him and keep him. That’s a hard pass. 

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