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GreggTX

Do you want a WR at 9?

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2 minutes ago, NewEra said:

You said “the point is” there are 2nd and 3rd prospects that can provide what Oliver provides.  First off, who? Zach Allen?  Oh yeah.  Secondly, if that’s your point, and there are WRs in rd 2 and 3 that can provide what Metcalf provides, what good is your point?  It’s not.  

 

You’re comparing Ed Oliver and Zach Allen.  I’m comparing DK Metcalf with Brown, Harry, Butler, Deebo, Campbell, Harmon, Arcega-Whiteside, Hall, Ridley, McLaurin off the top of my head.  I realIze they all wont be there at 40, but several will be.  If you point is, Oliver can be had in the body of Zach Allen and Metcalf can’t, you have no point.  Metcalf is a physical freak.  So is Oliver.  

 

I said years pass without a player like Metcalf. 

 

Is Oliver that much better than Jeffrey Simmons? Is he better at all? His best skill is run stopping, and his pass rushing is above average. I posted this link earlier in the thread:

 

https://www.profootballfocus.com/news/draft-how-ed-olivers-pass-rushing-was-held-back-by-houstons-scheme

 

This is supposed to help Oliver's case for lack of pass rush production (lack of production is often held against Metcalf, but not Oliver btw),

but all it does for me is point out that there are at least 6-7 DTs that are not only comparable at pass rushing but better.

 

And I only care about the pass rushing because that's the skill that is most valuable/rare. 

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4 minutes ago, the skycap said:

How is Oliver a "physical freak"? He's 6'2", 287lbs. Zach Allen is 6'5" 285. Because Oliver can do backflips make him a freak?

Ohhhhhhhh my bad.  What was I thinking?  Zach Allen is a physical freak.  Ed Oliver isn’t.  

How could I be so dense.

 

Btw, did you happen to see Oliver’s times?  

4 minutes ago, Chemical said:

 

I said years pass without a player like Metcalf. 

 

Is Oliver that much better than Jeffrey Simmons? Is he better at all? His best skill is run stopping, and his pass rushing is above average. I posted this link earlier in the thread:

 

https://www.profootballfocus.com/news/draft-how-ed-olivers-pass-rushing-was-held-back-by-houstons-scheme

 

This is supposed to help Oliver's case for lack of pass rush production (lack of production is often held against Metcalf, but not Oliver btw),

but all it does for me is point out that there are at least 6-7 DTs that are not only comparable at pass rushing but better.

 

And I only care about the pass rushing because that's the skill that is most valuable/rare. 

Ok.  You just posted a link that said shows that Oliver played the zero the majority of the time and was triple teamed......yet that doesn’t mean anything to you.  

 

I’m done in this thread.  I’ll enjoy watching you guys whine and cry about how bad Beane is when we don’t take Metcalf.

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No. I want quality big guys in the first 2 rounds. Get wideouts in round 3 on that are productive. 

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4 minutes ago, NewEra said:

 

Ok.  You just posted a link that said shows that Oliver played the zero the majority of the time and was triple teamed......yet that doesn’t mean anything to you.  

 

I’m done in this thread.  I’ll enjoy watching you guys whine and cry about how bad Beane is when we don’t take Metcalf.

 

Look at the non-zero pass rushing numbers

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1 minute ago, Chemical said:

 

Look at the non-zero pass rushing numbers

My bad again.  Oliver is terrible.  Zach Allen >>. Ed Oliver.  I know, look at the tape.  I know, look at the stats.  its just so obvious that I’m starting to think hat Allen will be taken in the top 10 and Oliver in the 2nd rd

 

 

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Just now, NewEra said:

My bad again.  Oliver is terrible.  Zach Allen >>. Ed Oliver.  I know, look at the tape.  I know, look at the stats.  its just so obvious that I’m starting to think hat Allen will be taken in the top 10 and Oliver in the 2nd rd

 

 

 

Never said he's terrible, just comparable to a lot of other players at his position for pass rushing. While I don't think Metcalf is comparable to any of the receivers.

 

Hopefully this time my point is clear enough so you can stop putting words in my mouth and using sarcasm as a debate tactic. It's not clever or funny and it's not combating any points being made.

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The way I see it, The road to where we want to be is going to go through New England or KC. The way to beat them is to take Brady and Mahomes out of the equation. Need Pass rush more than WR's....

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Between you and the guy saying that Zach Allen is more of a physical freak than Ed Oliver, because he’s bigger, I’m really in awe.  

 

I’m hanging with my wife on the couch while I read this stuff.  I don’t feel like digging up articles and stats to prove my point.  My point is well documented.  

 

Then you say this:

“The point is there are players in the 2nd and 3rd round that can provide what Oliver provides.  What point is this when there are several WRs 

 

But there are no players like Metcalf, sometimes for years. He's not just a size/speed combo. He was already considered the top WR before this past season and combine. The injury is the only reason he might be available at 9 since he was on pace for a huge year.. Meanwhile Ed Oliver was considered the best DT prior to the season and got stuck playing the zero tech getting double and triple teamed all year.  But that doesn’t mean anything to you?  Of course, it doesn’t fit your agenda.  

 

But Ed Oliver isn’t a physical freak https://www.google.com/amp/s/theramswire.usatoday.com/2019/03/28/ed-oliver-pro-day-aaron-donald-comparison-nfl-draft/amp/

 

 
40-yard dash 3-cone Short shuttle Vertical Broad Bench
Donald 4.68s 7.11s 4.39s 32″ 116″ 35 reps
Oliver 4.73s 7.15s 4.22s 36″ 120″ 32 reps

 

Just to put Ed Oliver’s 4.19 short-shuttle time into perspective, here’s some other notable results:

4.18 – Antonio Brown
4.19 – DeSean Jackson
4.24 – Saquon Barkley
4.24 – Le’Veon Bell
4.25 – Julio Jones
4.39 – Aaron Donald

 

Edit: and he fits the draft profile of McBeane of rare size/speed/talent in the first.  Oliver doesn’t fit because he isn’t 6’5?

 

Metcalf is clearly a specimen.  None of the WRs in rd 2 bring his freakiness to the table.  The same is true for Ed Oliver.  Ed hasn’t had neck surgery either.  If the neck surgery doesn’t bother you AT ALL, that’s just strange.

           
             
           

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Posted (edited)
2 minutes ago, NewEra said:

Between you and the guy saying that Zach Allen is more of a physical freak than Ed Oliver, because he’s bigger, I’m really in awe.  

 

I’m hanging with my wife on the couch while I read this stuff.  I don’t feel like digging up articles and stats to prove my point.  My point is well documented.  

 

Then you say this:

“The point is there are players in the 2nd and 3rd round that can provide what Oliver provides.  What point is this when there are several WRs 

 

But there are no players like Metcalf, sometimes for years. He's not just a size/speed combo. He was already considered the top WR before this past season and combine. The injury is the only reason he might be available at 9 since he was on pace for a huge year.. Meanwhile Ed Oliver was considered the best DT prior to the season and got stuck playing the zero tech getting double and triple teamed all year.  But that doesn’t mean anything to you?  Of course, it doesn’t fit your agenda.  

 

But Ed Oliver isn’t a physical freak https://www.google.com/amp/s/theramswire.usatoday.com/2019/03/28/ed-oliver-pro-day-aaron-donald-comparison-nfl-draft/amp/

 

 
40-yard dash 3-cone Short shuttle Vertical Broad Bench
Donald 4.68s 7.11s 4.39s 32″ 116″ 35 reps
Oliver 4.73s 7.15s 4.22s 36″ 120″ 32 reps

 

Just to put Ed Oliver’s 4.19 short-shuttle time into perspective, here’s some other notable results:

4.18 – Antonio Brown
4.19 – DeSean Jackson
4.24 – Saquon Barkley
4.24 – Le’Veon Bell
4.25 – Julio Jones
4.39 – Aaron Donald

 

Edit: and he fits the draft profile of McBeane of rare size/speed/talent in the first.  Oliver doesn’t fit because he isn’t 6’5?

 

Metcalf is clearly a specimen.  None of the WRs in rd 2 bring his freakiness to the table.  The same is true for Ed Oliver.  Ed hasn’t had neck surgery either.  If the neck surgery doesn’t bother you AT ALL, that’s just strange.

           
             
           

 

Again stop putting words in my mouth. I’m not a doctor. I said if the doctors think it’s an issue then don’t draft him. 

 

Also never said Oliver isn’t a physical freak. I’d just rather have Metcalf and a later round DT than Oliver and a later round WR

Edited by Chemical

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8 minutes ago, Chemical said:

 

Again stop putting words in my mouth. I’m not a doctor. I said if the doctors think it’s an issue then don’t draft him. 

 

Also never said Oliver isn’t a physical freak. I’d just rather have Metcalf and a later round DT than Oliver and a later round WR

I think you can make a case either way. Lot of second round wr possibilities I like. Harry and Isabella are two of them. I can see Tillery in the second at DL, but my first choice is Oliver at nine. If they go DK in the first, I'm okay with the gamble.

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The only one worth taking would be Metcalf as his potential is off the charts compared to other WR's.  He could easily be the next Julio Jones.  The problem is that analysis is based mostly off combine results and his pro day.  If we pass on him and he's the next TO (production wise) the "We could've had Mahomes" will be followed by "We could've had Metcalf" even though most were in favor of them passing on both at the time.  I would be fine with Beane taking him at nine and I would be fine if he drafted a DE/DT or TE as well.

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3 hours ago, WMDman said:

no, give me ed oliver

sorry, i'll read through the pages later.... but felt little need to go farther than this. reason being....

 

they needed oline help badly.  they put together a huge fa group so they aren't reliant on spending a high draft pick there.

 

they needed wr help badly.  they again, put together a good group.....see above

 

they need to replace kyle, improve the pass rush, sack total and improve the run defense . they set themselves up nicely to go bpa at the bpn (biggest possible need, dt.)

PLEASE GET ED OLIVER!  we can move around the draft after that to get some de help.

 

it's not hard to see the direction they are going and that they do have a plan. hopefully for once since 1985, we have a f.o. that will not suck on one side of the ball while concentrating on the other.....which has been the (for lack of a better word), billsy thing to do for way too long.

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13 minutes ago, NewEra said:

Between you and the guy saying that Zach Allen is more of a physical freak than Ed Oliver, because he’s bigger, I’m really in awe.  

 

I’m hanging with my wife on the couch while I read this stuff.  I don’t feel like digging up articles and stats to prove my point.  My point is well documented.  

 

Then you say this:

“The point is there are players in the 2nd and 3rd round that can provide what Oliver provides.  What point is this when there are several WRs 

 

But there are no players like Metcalf, sometimes for years. He's not just a size/speed combo. He was already considered the top WR before this past season and combine. The injury is the only reason he might be available at 9 since he was on pace for a huge year.. Meanwhile Ed Oliver was considered the best DT prior to the season and got stuck playing the zero tech getting double and triple teamed all year.  But that doesn’t mean anything to you?  Of course, it doesn’t fit your agenda.  

 

But Ed Oliver isn’t a physical freak https://www.google.com/amp/s/theramswire.usatoday.com/2019/03/28/ed-oliver-pro-day-aaron-donald-comparison-nfl-draft/amp/

 

 
40-yard dash 3-cone Short shuttle Vertical Broad Bench
Donald 4.68s 7.11s 4.39s 32″ 116″ 35 reps
Oliver 4.73s 7.15s 4.22s 36″ 120″ 32 reps

 

 Just to put Ed Oliver’s 4.19 short-shuttle time into perspective, here’s some other notable results:

4.18 – Antonio Brown
4.19 – DeSean Jackson
4.24 – Saquon Barkley
4.24 – Le’Veon Bell
4.25 – Julio Jones
4.39 – Aaron Donald

 

Edit: and he fits the draft profile of McBeane of rare size/speed/talent in the first.  Oliver doesn’t fit because he isn’t 6’5?

 

Metcalf is clearly a specimen.  None of the WRs in rd 2 bring his freakiness to the table.  The same is true for Ed Oliver.  Ed hasn’t had neck surgery either.  If the neck surgery doesn’t bother you AT ALL, that’s just strange.

           
             
           

 

Out of curiousity, what was Metcalf’s short shuttle time?

 

 

 

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..FWIW (HINT: not much), see McBeane going DL/Edge in the 1st after trading down for an extra 2nd.....did get some FA OL toys to work with.....perhaps LB in the 2nd and maybe TE/WR with second 2nd or 3rd......

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I personally don’t want Metcalf. if they trade back a few and take him I’ll be all in. I think he’s a swing for the fences type of pick. Could be dominant in this league or could bust out. I don’t feel there’s an in between with him. 

 

I’d rather trade back and take a TE. Stay where we are and grab a dominant DT/DE and then go for WR in round 2-4. 

 

Trade back into the first for AJ Brown

2nd round Harry, Butler

 

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The only guy I like as a 1st rounder is AJ Brown and I'd want to take him in the 20-32 range.

 

 

I'm a hard pass on Metcalf.

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27 minutes ago, Augie said:

 

Out of curiousity, what was Metcalf’s short shuttle time?

 

 

 

Worse than Tom Brady’s.  😉

41 minutes ago, Chemical said:

 

Again stop putting words in my mouth. I’m not a doctor. I said if the doctors think it’s an issue then don’t draft him. 

 

Also never said Oliver isn’t a physical freak. I’d just rather have Metcalf and a later round DT than Oliver and a later round WR

You and about 7 others.  

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Posted (edited)
6 minutes ago, NewEra said:

Worse than Tom Brady’s.  😉

So he took the short shuttle, and made it longer? 

 

EDIT: OK, I looked it up. Oliver had 4.19 while DK (a WR, NOT a DT) had 4.50 seconds. Is a DT suppoesed to be able to change direction better than a WR? 

Edited by Augie

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Not from this class.  Not saying there aren’t good WR prospects, but nobody that is tempting in the top 15-20

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6 minutes ago, Augie said:

So he took the short shuttle, and made it longer? 

 

EDIT: OK, I looked it up. Oliver had 4.19 while DK (a WR, NOT a DT) had 4.50 seconds. Is a DT suppoesed to be able to change direction better than a WR? 

But Metcalf is the physical freak because he puts too much time in the weight room and can run a fast 40.  

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if they don't get oliver, obviously i'll be bummed.....but i've said this before,,,,one thing i do know is that they will do something i never saw coming, or could never have dreamed up.

looking at past picks, these guys find players who have a humble past and the drive to be great. they do unbelievable  research. the players they uncover always fit the mold.

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