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Kirby Jackson

Chris Hogan makes a stop in Charlotte prior to Canton

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Just now, DaBillsFanSince1973 said:

even here, I was never really too impressed. good for him, he landed another job.

You should be impressed because he's genuinely good at that other stuff. If you watched that SD playoff game - where he played 92 percent of the snaps - he was always blocking capably downfield on runs that got to the second level (which happened a lot). 

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5 minutes ago, DaBillsFanSince1973 said:
1 hour ago, billieve420 said:

JAG never understood the love.

beat me to it!

 

I love 90% of the Buffalo Bills players 

 

 

its in my blood.  I just can't help myself 

 

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7 minutes ago, Bill from NYC said:

Was it his fault that he didn't have a decent QB throwing him the ball?

 

Hogan wasn't a great receiver but a player of his caliber is useful. He certainly wasn't a bad player.

 

He was very useful.  Didn't get a ton of targets, but made the most of them.  Beefy YPC past few years.  He would have been pretty cheap to keep in the big picture.   Solid #3 is what every team should have on the roster.

 

5 minutes ago, dave mcbride said:

He had 34 receptions for 542 yards and 4 TDs in 9 postseason games, which is very solid. He's also a very good blocker. He played more offensive snaps than any other Patriots player aside from Brady and the o-line in the SB against the Falcons -- a massive 97 snaps, which is like two games for most players -- and his block on the game-tying 2 pt conversion to get Amendola into the end zone was textbook and play-deciding.

 

He's basically a JAG as a receiver, but the reason he played so many snaps is that he does all the other things well in what is a very complex and multi-faceted offense.  

 

 

Exactly.

 

Look at the fawning over the signing of tiny JAG Cole Beasley--one dimensional player who needs nearly 90 targets to get as many yards as Hogan gets in under 60. but he, like Hogan, fills a role---just a more limited one.

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3 minutes ago, SWATeam said:

Amazing that this JAG keeps collecting checks....  I guess NFL teams aren't as smart as this board.

 

No he has a role on a team just not what many had made him out to be which was a difference maker who the Bills would miss.

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1 hour ago, Stank_Nasty said:

his high in buffalo was 450. his high there was 680.... sooooo much better. 

 

i'd be ok with a rings argument but a numbers one isn't very accurate.

It might really be less relevant as well.

 

Brady had other targets to include Gronk, a good running game and of course, a strong OL. He would be prone to getting less chances under these conditions, no?

 

Don't get me wrong.....I do not make a case that he was great. I do however think that the poster who said that those complaining about Hogan leaving Buffalo were disgusted by the incompetence of Whaley was correct. Put me in that crew.

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2 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

He was very useful.  Didn't get a ton of targets, but made the most of them.  Beefy YPC past few years.  He would have been pretty cheap to keep in the big picture.   Solid #3 is what every team should have on the roster.

 

 

 

Exactly.

 

Look at the fawning over the signing of tiny JAG Cole Beasley--one dimensional player who needs nearly 90 targets to get as many yards as Hogan gets in under 60. but he, like Hogan, fills a role---just a more limited one.

I do think that Beasley is a little quicker than Hogan and can play a more Edelman-like role. To be fair, that wasn't the position Hogan played for the Pats - he was more of a flanker than a slot receiver. But Beasley's short area quickness is better than Hogan's.  

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Just now, dave mcbride said:

I do think that Beasley is a little quicker than Hogan and can play a more Edelman-like role. To be fair, that wasn't the position Hogan played for the Pats - he was more of a flanker than a slot receiver. But Beasley's short area quickness is better than Hogan's.  

 

Oh i know.. 

 

Just saying both have value, but that Beasely is an Edelman knockoff, yet some posters are "hyping " him as "though we just went out and signed a first ballot wr" lol

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29 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

 

He was never "hyped" "as though we had let a first ballot wr walk".  THAT's simply not how it went.

 

I'll agree with this.

😳

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1 hour ago, MJS said:

That's simply not true. Hogan had a cult of pissed off followers that continually bashed the Bills for letting him go.

I think you're confusing Hogan fans with the Brandon Reilly fan cult, which was as incomprehensible as the Mike Jasper and Coy Wire juntas! 🤣

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15 minutes ago, dave mcbride said:

See above. NE runs a very complex offense and he does a lot of the other stuff extremely well. He is a JAG as a receiver (admittedly, his primary duty), but the other stuff matters more than most think. 

 

If he was that vital why would the Patriots with no WRs outside of Edelman and the unreliable Josh Gordon let him walk? He only signed a 1 yr deal with the Panthers late in FA so he clearly wasn't a priority with any of the teams.

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1 hour ago, Kirby Jackson said:

A JAG that was a Product of opportunity 

He started on SB champions.  You’re normally really reasonable but I don’t know why you don’t let this one go haha.  If Hogan is a JAG, what is D’Rick?

 

its like JaMarcus Russell was much more talented than Ryan Fitzpatrick.  Who’s career would you rather have?  Also, Hogan had better combine numbers than Robert Woods.  He’s a pretty good athlete. 

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Posted (edited)
40 minutes ago, dave mcbride said:

He had 34 receptions for 542 yards and 4 TDs in 9 postseason games, which is very solid. He's also a very good blocker. He played more offensive snaps than any other Patriots player aside from Brady and the o-line in the SB against the Falcons -- a massive 97 snaps, which is like two games for most players -- and his block on the game-tying 2 pt conversion to get Amendola into the end zone was textbook and play-deciding. He also played more snaps than any other players besides Brady, Gronk, and the o-line in the next SB (93 percent) - a game that the Pats shattered the record for offensive yardage.

 

He's basically a JAG as a receiver, but the reason he played so many snaps is that he does all the other things well in what is a very complex and multi-faceted offense.  

these are all really fair and informative points. thank you.

 

now with that said i'll ask you a question..... as a team that i think we call can agree is devoid of outside talent, why did they just let him walk? and do you think they'll skip a beat without him? i'm not trying to be a jerk. i'm honestly curious.

 

IMO they wont skip a beat. plug in another journeyman and away they go. 

Edited by Stank_Nasty

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1 hour ago, formerlyofCtown said:

Hogan is a solid WR3.

Would the Bills have been off having Hogan or not?  That’s what I don’t get.  No one says he’s a superstar but he was better than a lot of the scrubs we had the last few years.

 

only Bills fans can think a guy who started for the Pats isn’t good enough for us.

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Posted (edited)
10 minutes ago, Stank_Nasty said:

these are all really fair and informative points. thank you.

 

now with that said i'll ask you a question..... as a team that i think we call can agree is devoid of outside talent, why did they just let him walk? and do you think they'll skip a beat without him? i'm not trying to be a jerk. i'm honestly curious.

 

IMO they wont skip a beat. plug in another journeyman and away they go. 

Despite the good things that he does, I honestly don't think he's good enough as a receiver in terms of getting open, and the Pats have a 20-year habit of preferring to dump people early rather than late. It's how they roll. They probably figured that he's the type of player who has a solid 4-5 year window, and that window is now closing - as it does for most players. They got their money's worth from him, and now they're done. It's not like he's going to get any faster or more elusive going forward. What's more likely to happen is that all of the nagging injuries he's accumulated plus age-related decline are going to slow him down. He'll be 31 when the season starts. From his perspective, he got to play in three Super Bowls for a legendary team, and he performed pretty heroically in a couple of those Super Bowls. 10 years down the line, many people will know who Chris Hogan is, but they won't know who Charles Clay is. The point is, he got his share of glory out of the deal. 

Edited by dave mcbride
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1 hour ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

Bashing the Bills for letting him go is hardly "you would have thought we let a first ballot wr walk," as said above, or the snideness of "prior to Canton" in the headline. 

 

And that's the kind of stuff that always gets said, never by folks who like Hogan. Always by people making fun of the folks who criticized the Hogan cut. If anything it proves the original point. The actual criticism was extremely reasonable. That's why the folks who didn't like it even to this day have to wildly exaggerate what was actually said.

 

Whaley cut Hogan largely because he'd been such a spendthrift that we were in cap trouble despite being a team that was at best mediocre. We were in such crap shape that they could give Hogan only a minimum salary one year tender. Whaley tried to keep him, and couldn't. And the cheap-ass Pats gave him $4 mill a year over three years, and structured the contract to stop Buffalo from matching.

 

"The Patriots signed Hogan to a three-year, $12 million offer sheet that will have a high amount of guaranteed money. ESPN's Adam Schefter reported that the three-year offer sheet will feature a $5.5 million salary cap hit for the 2016 season. With a $5.5 million cap hit for the upcoming season, the Bills would have been left with under $1 million in current cap space -- making their ability to match the offer sheet highly unlikely. The Bills chose to use the lowest possible tender on Hogan, which gave them a cap hit of $1.671 million, and in doing so they only assured themselves the right of first refusal for the wide receiver. The Bills did not match the offer sheet, and because it's the lowest tender, they will receive no draft pick compensation from New England."

 

https://www.wkbw.com/sports/bills/bills-decline-offer-hogan-headed-to-patriots

 

Incompetence, poor cap handling, tendering him for less than half of what he eventually got per year and being outsmarted and outmaneuvered by Belichick. Of course we were pissed. Rightly so.

 

You didn't have to think Hogan was Megatron to think the Bills *****ed that up. Hell, you didn't have to think Hogan was an above average #3 receiver. He'd been the 3rd most productive WR on the Bills. During his first year with the Patriots, we brought in Percy Harvin for $6 mill and got nothing. Woods was our most productive WR with 613 yards, Watkins and Goodwin were #2 and #3 with 430 and 431 yards. But yeah, we had all the receivers we needed. Justin Hunter was our #4 with 189. And Hogan got 680 on 58 targets and 38 catches in NE, and that would have made him the most productive on our team.

 

People were pissed because how it happened was utterly stupid, because they could have had him for a lot less than Belichick - a fairly smart cookie, they say -ended up paying him, and because he was a decent player replaced by guys who weren't as good. It was a move that sucked.

 

And this is what I'm talking about. All this passion for a 3rd/4th WR. A guy who we should have forgotten about 1 season later and yet people are still talking about how horrible it was to this day.

 

Sorry, but I think there are FAR greater blunders from Whaley and practically any GM in the league to complain about. Yet the Hogan situation will continue to be cited as one of his biggest blunders, which is just comical to me.

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8 minutes ago, MJS said:

 

And this is what I'm talking about. All this passion for a 3rd/4th WR. A guy who we should have forgotten about 1 season later and yet people are still talking about how horrible it was to this day.

 

Sorry, but I think there are FAR greater blunders from Whaley and practically any GM in the league to complain about. Yet the Hogan situation will continue to be cited as one of his biggest blunders, which is just comical to me.

 

 

Again, you are mischaracterizing the sentiment at the time. 

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44 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

He started on SB champions.  You’re normally really reasonable but I don’t know why you don’t let this one go haha.  If Hogan is a JAG, what is D’Rick?

 

its like JaMarcus Russell was much more talented than Ryan Fitzpatrick.  Who’s career would you rather have?  Also, Hogan had better combine numbers than Robert Woods.  He’s a pretty good athlete. 

He’s a good athlete but he’s an absolute JAG. He’s Andre Holmes that did a stint with Tom Brady. He’s a back of the roster receiver that was WAY overhyped when he was here and especially when he went to the Pats. The same thing happened with Chandler and Gillislee. It was going to haunt us forever. The reality is those guys were no better there than in Buffalo (and in some cases worse). Hogan is a dbag that’s not a very good football player. He got a chance and carved a career out of it. A ton of guys though could have had a similar career with similar opportunity. 

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Posted (edited)
4 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:

He’s a good athlete but he’s an absolute JAG. He’s Andre Holmes that did a stint with Tom Brady. He’s a back of the roster receiver that was WAY overhyped when he was here and especially when he went to the Pats. The same thing happened with Chandler and Gillislee. It was going to haunt us forever. The reality is those guys were no better there than in Buffalo (and in some cases worse). Hogan is a dbag that’s not a very good football player. He got a chance and carved a career out of it. A ton of guys though could have had a similar career with similar opportunity. 

I think you're oversimplifying here, Kirby. See what I wrote above about him. As a pass catching receiver he's a JAG, but pass catching is only part of what's expected of NE receivers. Also, comparing him to Chandler and Gillislee is off the mark. Those two players failed in NE and were unceremoniously dumped to the curb in short order. 

Edited by dave mcbride
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1 minute ago, dave mcbride said:

I think you're oversimplifying here, Kirby. See what I wrote above about him. As a pass catching receiver he's a JAG, but pass catching is only part of what's expected of NE receivers. 

That’s fair and he is a very good blocker. By the same token Holmes is a very good ST player.

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Did you know, he played LaCrosse in college? :blink:

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1 minute ago, Kirby Jackson said:

That’s fair and he is a very good blocker. By the same token Holmes is a very good ST player.

I'm not talking about special teams play, though, so I think the analogy is off. I'm talking about his performance as a complementary player in a very complex offense. He consistently played an outsized number of snaps in his three years there. 

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2 minutes ago, dave mcbride said:

I'm not talking about special teams play, though, so I think the analogy is off. I'm talking about his performance as a complementary player in a very complex offense. He consistently played an outsized number of snaps in his three years there. 

Fair but he certainly wasn’t considered indispensable to them. He was sitting on the open market in the middle of April. 

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Posted (edited)
3 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:

Fair but he certainly wasn’t considered indispensable to them. He was sitting on the open market in the middle of April. 

I never said he was. As I said above, he's not a good enough receiver in terms of beating guys and getting open. But there's much more to the game than that, and NE's approach to offensive scheming and utilizing complementary parts is so much more sophisticated than what we're used to. Perhaps most importantly, though, he's going to be 31 when the season starts, and he's not going to get any better. My guess is that he plays until he's 32-33, which ain't bad for a UDFA.

Edited by dave mcbride
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25 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:

He’s a good athlete but he’s an absolute JAG. He’s Andre Holmes that did a stint with Tom Brady. He’s a back of the roster receiver that was WAY overhyped when he was here and especially when he went to the Pats. The same thing happened with Chandler and Gillislee. It was going to haunt us forever. The reality is those guys were no better there than in Buffalo (and in some cases worse). Hogan is a dbag that’s not a very good football player. He got a chance and carved a career out of it. A ton of guys though could have had a similar career with similar opportunity. 

And there it is!!! Why did he do to you Kirby?  

 

Quick story: I went to Syracuse football camp and McNabb was there because my high school coach used to coach there.  Anyways, we got pizza and I only had one slice but was getting excited to have some more later.  So McNabb talks to us for awhile and afterwards, he takes the rest of the pizza!  MFer!!! So for a long time, I irrationally hated McNabb! And former Sabre Derek Roy crop dusted me when we were talking to a group of girls.  So I hated him too.

 

so did hogan steal your pizza or crop dust you? And can you just admit, once and for all, you took the L on the Hogan- Da’Rick debate? :)

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