Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
Tipster19

The reality of what Beane is creating with the OL.

Recommended Posts

9 hours ago, hemma said:

I expect a couple of fights, maybe even ejections but in the long run, that may be ok.

 

Couldn't agree more. I loved that last year. People only learn not to cross a line when they know where the line is. I'm all for letting opponents know that if they better play nice or it's on.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 hours ago, FeelingOnYouboty said:

Referees do a poor job of protecting big athletic QB’s. Cam Newton gets destroyed every week and never gets any calls.

 

 

difference.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, stosh64 said:

 

This is RTP against Brady FFS.

ezgif-1-1.gif.9f395b4ffbff7ce5db72e9b330259fda.gif

 

Not to mention that the left tackle isn't holding... it's called bear-hugging, and since it's an affectionate and loving embrace, the refs would never call such a thing on one of those dear, sweet followers of the Patriot Way. How could they, when the Patsies are such law abiding saints?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
35 minutes ago, ROCBillsBeliever said:

Not to mention that the left tackle isn't holding... it's called bear-hugging, and since it's an affectionate and loving embrace, the refs would never call such a thing on one of those dear, sweet followers of the Patriot Way. How could they, when the Patsies are such law abiding saints?

That's deflating.

  • Haha (+1) 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

That’s one of the reasons why I’d like to snag Dalton Risner if possible. Dude plays with a mean streak to EVERY whistle. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think the OP makes an interesting point.   Frankly, I don't think that's WHY the Bills signed the guys they did, but it will be a result of what they did. 

 

McBeane have said several times that no team will be known as more physical than the Buffalo Bills.   They want the Bills the physically tough.   That's why so many of the guys they signed for the O line this year seem to have that mean streak, and that's Teller was one of the few survivors when McBeane started cutting linemen.  

 

A tangential benefit of having guys like this on the offensive line is what the OP says - these are guys who are going to take offense, physically, when their QB gets hit unnecessarily.  There was a play last season when someone jumped in as soon as Allen took one of those hits, don't remember the game or the player, and I don't remember the result (penalties or whatever).  What I do remember is that when asked about the play after the game, McDermott said something like "we don't condone fighting and we don't want stupid dies, but I like to see my guys stand up for their teammates."  

 

I think we can expect the offensive line to play with some aggressiveness that we lost when Richie left.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 hours ago, Tipster19 said:

I think that not only is Beane smart enough to know that there’s danger waiting for Josh, especially in our own division, and that instead of just having OL stick up and protect him but rather have OL that will set the tone and even be the aggressors, or should I dare say the bullies. Putting teams on notice that that cheap crap isn’t going to be tolerated. 

I’m personally a huge fan of McBeane and have an extremely loose leash with McBeane, I’ve gone as far as to tell my friends I wouldn’t even consider firing them with another 6-10 season this year.

 

But the last time that a coach and GM came in here and said they were, “building a bully..” 👀 😢

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 hours ago, Happy Gilmore said:

 

Cam Newton complained about the same thing a couple of years ago.  Supposedly the ref shrugged it off and said something to the effect of "you're not there, yet" or "you're not at that level."  Brady is the face of the NFL, so he is protected.

 

11 hours ago, Happy Gilmore said:

 

I have to believe there is a level (subjective) a QB has to be at in order to get questionable calls in their favor.  Brady, Brees, the Mannings (at least before Peyton retired) all get those calls, though I doubt anyone gets more calls in their favor than Marsha.

I remember hearing about that one on the NFL Network a few years ago Happy. I agree that there is some level of subjective-ness to those "questionable" calls based on who the QB is but the fact that there is is total BS. The rules are there for all to follow and be held accountable. Who the QB is should not matter. These little side bars before games that the refs have with Brady in my view are a total lack of propriety in staying fair and objective when calling games. Any ref that is caught doing it should be tossed out of the league on their a$$. 

  • Like (+1) 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, BigPappy said:

 

I remember hearing about that one on the NFL Network a few years ago Happy. I agree that there is some level of subjective-ness to those "questionable" calls based on who the QB is but the fact that there is is total BS. The rules are there for all to follow and be held accountable. Who the QB is should not matter. These little side bars before games that the refs have with Brady in my view are a total lack of propriety in staying fair and objective when calling games. Any ref that is caught doing it should be tossed out of the league on their a$$. 

 

Agree.  It has been going on for a long time.  It seems that opposing coaches don't say anything about it, as I'm sure they notice, though they probably keep it in-house since they don't want to come off as whiners.  I'm sure coaches like John Harbaugh and Wade Phillips might have something to say about this.

  • Like (+1) 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
12 hours ago, Happy Gilmore said:

 

Cam Newton complained about the same thing a couple of years ago.  Supposedly the ref shrugged it off and said something to the effect of "you're not there, yet" or "you're not at that level."  Brady is the face of the NFL, so he is protected.

I think he said "You're not old enough" and it was Ed Hochuli, I'm pretty sure. Something like that.

 

As far as the protective oline goes, didn't guys go after Kiko when he cheap shotted Allen? I seem to remember that. I don't remember the oline being big push overs after the play, just during the play.

Edited by MJS

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have no problem in bringing in OL with attitude, in fact, I think its a good idea.  They still need talent of course, because if not, you just have a mean guy who swings and misses most of the time. 

 

One of my favorite stories from the old days was when Conrad Dobler was brought in for the 1980 season. He was replacing future HOF Joe D, one of the toughest OL the Bills ever had. But what Dobler brought was attitude...it was summed up by the equipment manager of all people, while talking about jerseys and such:

 

Bloodiest jersey – Conrad Dobler, 1980-1981“It has to be Conrad Dobler and often times it wasn’t his blood,” said Hojnowski. “Conrad told me one time because I had asked him. He said, ‘If I’m on your team I will do anything I can to keep my guy from getting to our quarterback.’ If I have to bite him, trip him, whatever.’”

 

https://www.buffalobills.com/news/uniform-extremes-5098653

 

The thing was...he instilled that attitude in his fellow linemen, especially Ken Jones and Joe Devlin, the 2 talented OT.

 

It was quite simple..."no one's getting to Fergie..we'll stop them by whatever means necessary."

 

The Bills gave up something like 16 sacks that year and led the league in 3rd down percentage.

 

Bring the talent, bring the attitude.

  • Like (+1) 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 minutes ago, MJS said:

I think he said "You're not old enough" and it was Ed Hochuli, I'm pretty sure. Something like that.

 

As far as the protective oline goes, didn't guys go after Kiko when he cheap shotted Allen? I seem to remember that. I don't remember the oline being big push overs after the play, just during the play.

That was the highlight of Jordan Mill’s career. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

What have they done with the offensive line?    They have brought in veterans who have proven that they can play in the NFL and were close to being starters or ocasional starters.   College linemen play a different game than the pros and with very limited contact practice permitted in the pros, it is hard to coach guys up.  The guys they brought in have survived all the culling and are better right now than anybody they would have drafted in the second or third round.  There are enough of them so that there will should not be any weak spots that the other team's defense can blow up.  One weak player or one rookie making mistakes is enough to kill a drive or  a QB.   All those FA's were brought in as the alternative of drafting 3-4 linemen.

 

I expect them to take one high ceiling/high floor o-lineman in the first 41 picks and at least one high-ceiling/low floor small school o-lineman in the 4th+ round.  The top guy may not start this year at all and the other draftees will be on the practice squad along with an UFA.   We may pick up another veteran from the waiver wire once the roster cut-downs start- that might even involve a lower round draft pick (5,67) for 2020.  Whatever makes the starting line better.

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I also think OL is still critical. Most of the line are on smallish deals that are easy to get out of. Bring in Taylor and you have LT and C locked up and a good chance to find a couple more good ones from the guys you brought in. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 minutes ago, CommonCents said:

That was the highlight of Jordan Mill’s career. 

That wasn't even him he got ejected for what looked like some other guy yanking on his facemask at the edge of the fight.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, Warcodered said:

That wasn't even him he got ejected for what looked like some other guy yanking on his facemask at the edge of the fight.

Robert Quinn I think.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 hours ago, SoTier said:

 

When QBs run the ball, especially on designed QB runs, they're no longer protected by the rules that protect QBs that stay in the pocket like Brady or the Mannings.  If Allen wants to have a long NFL career, he's going to have to learn to get some yards and then run out of bounds ala Russell Wilson not challenge defenders to get a few extra yards like Cam Newton.

I agree he needs to protect himself by sliding and running out of bounds. I'm hoping that the upgraded O-Line means Allen will be passing from the pocket more.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, Call_Of_Ktulu said:

I agree he needs to protect himself by sliding and running out of bounds. I'm hoping that the upgraded O-Line means Allen will be passing from the pocket more.

 

I agree that a better OL should help Allen, and hopefully, the Bills put enough good pieces around him so that he doesn't have to realize he doesn't have to do it all himself.  That may be a challenge for Allen, as it seems to be for Newton, because it doesn't seem to fit their temperaments.

 

My main point in that post though was aimed at the posters complaining about the refs not protecting some QBs while protecting others.   I think it's pretty obvious that nobody is too worried about either Tom Brady's or Eli Manning's running ability, so if they get hit, it's almost always going to be in/near the pocket.  QBs like Newton, Allen, Wilson, and Rodgers are definitely capable of using their mobility to make plays, either by running or by extending plays by running outside the pocket, so they're much more likely to be outside the pocket -- and therefore subject to hard hits -- than other QBs.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 hours ago, Tipster19 said:

Obviously the main goal is better protection for Josh but after watching last season’s highlights it’s quite apparent that in the games with the Dolphins, and the Jets as well, Josh made them look stupid plenty of times.

 

It looked like several of them on both teams underestimated Josh and his athletic abilities, all except for Kiko. Imo he’s a dirty player so anything that he did do, or at least tried to do, fits his dirty style of play but between already having sore feelings towards Buffalo and towards McCoy he really was trying to take out Josh a few different times, especially when time after time Josh was turning him inside out. 

 

The same with with the Jets. One player in particular, I forget which one, I think it was their Safety, seemed pretty frustrated with Josh and looked like he wanted to lay the wood on Allen as well.

 

Those highlights in particular made me realize that those 2 teams in particular are going to be much better prepared this year against Josh, as well as the rest of the NFL. Beane made sure that just about every OL that he signed has noted as having a nasty disposition. I wouldn’t be surprised if that one of the expectations that was emphasize to every FA OL that he brought in was they want OL that will be bodyguards before, during and after the play. I think that not only is Beane smart enough to know that there’s danger waiting for Josh, especially in our own division, and that instead of just having OL stick up and protect him but rather have OL that will set the tone and even be the aggressors, or should I dare say the bullies. Putting teams on notice that that cheap crap isn’t going to be tolerated. 

 

At at least that is what I would hope is happening because I am very concerned about Josh’s health this year because of what I saw so far from last year. IF the Bills were to take an OL with their first pick this year then I would expect it to be Jawaan Taylor over Jonah Williams because of his demeanor, and to me his talent.

 

Go Bills!

Should have resigned Cogs then.  He may even meet the dirty player at the gym.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, Nihilarian said:

I'm more concerned about the scheme Brian Daboll is going to call vs the O line policing Allen after a big/dirty hit. If he stays with that deep passing scheme that looked like the Mike Martz scheme that concussed Trent Edwards out of the league and gave JP Losman PTSD problems. Then Allen may not survive the season despite the influx of the talented mean/nasty O linemen. 

 

Daboll supposedly brought the NE Patriots playbook with him to Buffalo and instead what he called was for quite a few deep passes which require a lot of 3 to 5 step drop backs. Which usually requires the QB 3-5 seconds in the pocket to throw those deep passes. So, many times last season Josh Allen didn't have time to throw those deep passes and he ended up running due to the pocket breakdown or receivers not being open. He also didn't have much of a run game to help him out either. 

 

Jim Kelly used to air it out to Don Beebe, James Lofton on occasion and that was usually after they established a solid run game with Thurman Thomas which caused the linebackers and safety's to move up to stop the run. When the Bills faced the ferocious pass rushing Eagles with Reggie White they changed to more quick out throws with more crossing routes. This new scheme enabled the Bills to effectively stymie that pass rush. 

 

Even with all the new additions to the O line I highly doubt Allen will consistently have the time needed to allow him to make all those deep throws again this year unless they draft a new LT.

 

Here is hoping the Bills OC changes up his game plan to what the Patriots actually run. 

 

I think it's more complicated than just play calling philosophy last year.  At the beginning of the season the entire WR corps had it's head in its collective *** and it didn't matter how deep of a route they ran. Only later in the season did Foster, whose strength is the long ball, emerge and Zay start to extricate his head.  On top of that, Josh proved numerous times that he does not excel at the short, quick passing game and, either as a result of or in addition to, he tends to look for the deep ball.  I think what you're concerned about was scheming to QB tendencies and offensive personnel out of necessity.  Hopefully an offseason of Josh learning to throw a ball 5 yds on target and a better OL allowing them to use the RB as an outlet more will offer them more flexibility.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, Chandler#81 said:

I agree with the OP, whereas So Tier & Raven can’t see the library for the books. Good reference to Cam Newton as he was undeniably abused -often right in front of the refs, with no call. It was routinely opined that because he was a freak of an athlete, he could handle tough hits, compared to the feminine Brady, et al. Well, Josh is also a Freak athlete -and Better than Cam. He KNOWS when he can beat a LB or DL closing in on him while scrambling and the open field behind them. The kid is a phenom, plain & simple. Huge, Fast, Strong, Agile & highly competitive. Attempting to fit him in with prototypical QB concepts misses the boat entirely. To the OPs point, there were numerous times defenders took cheap shots after he was down or out of bounds because they were embarrassed by his athleticism -and the ref and very few Bills ever took offense to it. Stock piling veteran OL in FA allows for decent depth, should a starter be ejected for kicking Kiko in the head after he cheap shots Josh when the play is over. They’re not gonna stop trying it. They NEED Allen out of the game. They’re just gonna pay for their dirty deeds done dirt cheap.

 

I made a point last season to a friend that, based on the number of times he got hit on the boundary or just out of bounds and his reaction to it, I think Allen tends to chirp a bit.  He always seems to be enjoying himself and is always into the game even when he's on the sideline and it wouldn't surprise me at all to find out he's an accomplished trash talker.

  • Like (+1) 1
  • Haha (+1) 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, MJS said:

I think he said "You're not old enough" and it was Ed Hochuli, I'm pretty sure. Something like that.

 

As far as the protective oline goes, didn't guys go after Kiko when he cheap shotted Allen? I seem to remember that. I don't remember the oline being big push overs after the play, just during the play.

 

Good point re: Kiko cheap shot.  Looking forward to the OLine forcing their will on the D front seven during the play, not just after it.  Hope Daboll and the new OLine coordinator make a difference.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
15 hours ago, Happy Gilmore said:

A big, aggressive Oline with a mean streak is a good thing for a QB to have.  Beane seems to understand that.  Just glad Castillo is gone because he was a big part of the problem...him and his blocking schemes.

amen to that

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, transient said:

 

I think it's more complicated than just play calling philosophy last year.  At the beginning of the season the entire WR corps had it's head in its collective *** and it didn't matter how deep of a route they ran. Only later in the season did Foster, whose strength is the long ball, emerge and Zay start to extricate his head.  On top of that, Josh proved numerous times that he does not excel at the short, quick passing game and, either as a result of or in addition to, he tends to look for the deep ball.  I think what you're concerned about was scheming to QB tendencies and offensive personnel out of necessity.  Hopefully an offseason of Josh learning to throw a ball 5 yds on target and a better OL allowing them to use the RB as an outlet more will offer them more flexibility.

In that first game against the Ravens 47-3 blowout, Out of 33 passes attempted 10 went deep with that craptastic Bills offensive line.

Peterman went 5 of 18 for 24 yards, 2 INT, 3 sacks a 0.0 rating, Allen went 6 of 15 for 74, 3 sacks a 65.0 rating. Benjamin was targeted 7 times and caught one pass. Jones was targeted 6 times and caught 3. Bills QBs sacked 6 times.

 

Against the Chargers Allen went 18 of 33 for 245, 1 TD, 2 INT, 5 sacks. 10 deep passes called out of 33 which is almost one third. Bosa wasn't even playing for the Chargers.

Against the Vikings Allen went 15 of 22 for 196 yards,1 TD. Only 5 deep passes called A WIN!

Against the Packers Allen went 16 of 33 for 151 yards, 2 INTs, 7 sacks. 7 deep passes called. Notice a correlation? Blowout loss

Against the Titans Allen went 10 of 20 for 82 yards, 1 INT only 5 deep passes called A WIN!

Against the Texans Allen went 19 of 17 for 84 yards 2 sacks, Peterman went 6 of 12 for 61 yards, 1 TD, 2 INT. 6 deep passes called out of 29. Allen Injured A loss

 

Once back from his injury Allen tended to run more often because he didn't trust the pocket. 

 

Against the Jags Allen went 8 of 19 for 160 yards, 1 TD. Allen rushing 13 for 99 yards, 1 TD. 6 deep passes called A WIN

 Against the Dolphins Allen 18 of 33 for 231, 2 INT, 2 sacks. Allen rushed 9 times for 135 yards. 13 of 33 deep passes called. A Loss

Against the Jets Allen went 18 of 36 for 202 yards, 2 INT, 3 sacks. Allen rushing 9 times for 101 yards, 1 TD. 8 deep passes called. A Loss

Against the Lions Allen went 13 of 26 for 204 yards,  1 TD, 1 sack. 8 deep passes called A Win

Against the Patriots Allen went 20 of 41 for 217 yards, 1 TD, 2 INT. 12 deep passes called. a loss.

 

Care to know how many times Tom Brady went deep in this game? Only once! 

 

The point is with little or no run game from the running backs the Bills shouldn't be attempting so many deep passes all season long. Especially with how bad that Bills offensive line was all season long.  Once you establish a rhythm and the QB has some confidence with some short to mid passes... then you go deep.  

 

Last game of the season against the Dolphins Allen went 17 of 26 for 224, 3 TD, 1 INT, 1 sack. Allen 9 rushes for 95 yards, 2 TDs. Only 2 deep passes called in that 42-17 blowout win !!

 

Let's hope the Buffalo Bills 2019 season is like that last Miami game. Only with the RB's making all the rushing yards. Last year Josh Allen was the leading rusher on the team in 12 games. 89 attempts for 631 yards, 8 TD and a 7.1 yard per carry average. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 hours ago, thunderingsquid said:

I also think a lot of these guys are solid in the run game.  A revitalized run game and Shady will be a huge help to a young QB.  

 

Shady struggled mightily last year, I blame Castillo and ducasse.

My take too. He's looking for guys who can pound it in the run game as well as pass block. This indirectly will help Josh by hopefully making down and distance better.

  • Like (+1) 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...