QuoteTheRaven83 Posted April 10, 2019 Share Posted April 10, 2019 Vernon Davis, Kellen Winslow, Eric Ebron, and Rickey Dudley made great impacts for their teams. Lets draft a TE with a top 10 pick. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victory Formation Posted April 10, 2019 Share Posted April 10, 2019 6 minutes ago, QuoteTheRaven83 said: Vernon Davis, Kellen Winslow, Eric Ebron, and Rickey Dudley made great impacts for their teams. Lets draft a TE with a top 10 pick. I repudiate the concept that TEs aren't worth top 10 picks. Hock has HOF ability. If Witten, Gates, Gonzo, Gronk and so on were redrafted today knowing what we know now and what they'd do they'd all be top 10 picks. We aren't arguing about busts, we're arguing over the importance of the position. Hock gives Allen a big target that can dominate on a Rob Gronkowski level. That's priceless. Hock is who i want. Ed Oliver is my runner up and if both are gone id like to trade down for Marquise Brown. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QuoteTheRaven83 Posted April 10, 2019 Share Posted April 10, 2019 (edited) 7 minutes ago, NewDayBills said: I repudiate the concept that TEs aren't worth top 10 picks. Hock has HOF ability. If Witten, Gates, Gonzo, Gronk and so on were redrafted today knowing what we know now and what they'd do they'd all be top 10 picks. We aren't arguing about busts, we're arguing over the importance of the position. Hock gives Allen a big target that can dominate on a Rob Gronkowski level. That's priceless. Hock is who i want. Ed Oliver is my runner up and if both are gone id like to trade down for Marquise Brown. How many playoff wins between them? How many SB's between them? Now take out Gronk and let me know what your answer is. Is Gronk, Gronk without Brady? Sure they're great players but how much of an impact did they really make? Protect the QB and attack the opposing QB. Line all the way. F the TE. Edited April 10, 2019 by QuoteTheRaven83 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victory Formation Posted April 10, 2019 Share Posted April 10, 2019 5 minutes ago, QuoteTheRaven83 said: How many playoff wins between them? How many SB's between them? Now take out Gronk and let me know what your answer is. Is Gronk, Gronk without Brady? Sure they're great players but how much of an impact did they really make? Protect the QB and attack the opposing QB. Line all the way. F the TE. WR is far more important than TE, no doubt, but who is there for us? Metcalf? I think Hock is a far superior athlete. That's what it boils down to for me. I see a potential gold jacket player and i think we should draft those types w/o prejudice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QuoteTheRaven83 Posted April 10, 2019 Share Posted April 10, 2019 6 minutes ago, NewDayBills said: WR is far more important than TE, no doubt, but who is there for us? Metcalf? I think Hock is a far superior athlete. That's what it boils down to for me. I see a potential gold jacket player and i think we should draft those types w/o prejudice. I hate Metcalf. It's well documented in this message board I hate Metcalf. This talk about far superior athlete is total bull. I could care less about who the far superior athlete is. I care more about work ethic, smarts and intangibles. People here wanna nut over Metcalf's combine numbers and measurables but I don't see production. To me, TE is a luxury pick that you can take when your roster is well established. If you have a good line, good RB, great QB, decent defense sure take your shot at TE early. We're FAR from that. I want d-line or o-line. Someone will be there at 9. If not, trade down and take Hollywood. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victory Formation Posted April 10, 2019 Share Posted April 10, 2019 Just now, QuoteTheRaven83 said: I hate Metcalf. It's well documented in this message board I hate Metcalf. This talk about far superior athlete is total bull. I could care less about who the far superior athlete is. I care more about work ethic, smarts and intangibles. People here wanna nut over Metcalf's combine numbers and measurables but I don't see production. To me, TE is a luxury pick that you can take when your roster is well established. If you have a good line, good RB, great QB, decent defense sure take your shot at TE early. We're FAR from that. I want d-line or o-line. Someone will be there at 9. If not, trade down and take Hollywood. Right and that's fine you feel that way. We agree on Hollywood. As far as team building is concerned, we will just have to go our own way. I think we're in a position to go BPA. There is a chance Taylor, Oliver, Quinnen, Allen and Bosa are gone. I don't give a rats ass about the other guys. I feel you take whats there. I don't care how other teams build their roster, once again I'd rather we go our own way. We haven't had a good TE in a damn near eternity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rico Posted April 10, 2019 Share Posted April 10, 2019 14 minutes ago, NewDayBills said: WR is far more important than TE, no doubt, but who is there for us? Metcalf? I think Hock is a far superior athlete. That's what it boils down to for me. I see a potential gold jacket player and i think we should draft those types w/o prejudice. He doesn’t have to be a HOF player, the next Travis Kielce will suffice. But if the Bills burn the #9 pick on a high-motor lunch-pail JAG, the thrashing he will get in here will make Tyrod Taylor look beloved in comparison. It is what it is. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdand12 Posted April 10, 2019 Share Posted April 10, 2019 5 hours ago, WideNine said: Fair enough. I had zero faith the Bills would ever draft another good QB...was just done hoping after so many poor selections and missed prospects. Allen is a very pleasant surprise. The plan out of camp to start Peterman behind that patchwork line after his showing the prior year behind a much better line seemed doomed to failure. It was. The silver lining was Allen got serious reps in and OBD realized that you have to invest in your o-line. They have shown that they have a clue after all. Looked like they were trying to tank with Peterman and that O line and offense in general really. Most likely were planning on building the Offense this year anyways. But putting Allen in really lit the fire !!! in a good way. Beane and Co have responded nicely this "Off" season in FA etc. serious about playing winning football now via Josh Allen ( the QB ) lol. I think they are going to continue to bolster the Receiving core. and at this point TE is the biggest need. it might be the best bang for the buck for the Bills to nail it. and TJ is just that guy. on a couple levels as so many here have mentioned. he is no where near a boom or bust player. he is ready to play/start NFL right away IMO And i think he should become best friends with Josh day one of the draft. ideally we trade down knowing we are getting him. wink nod agreements. and the Bills trade back up with the extra picks possibly into the first round again. : ) but i would be pretty stoked if we made no deal and took my Favorite TE in years to come out of college. I like Oliver if they go defense at nine. get me both somehow Beanes. trade next 1st get er done Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdand12 Posted April 10, 2019 Share Posted April 10, 2019 47 minutes ago, NewDayBills said: WR is far more important than TE, no doubt, but who is there for us? Metcalf? I think Hock is a far superior athlete. That's what it boils down to for me. I see a potential gold jacket player and i think we should draft those types w/o prejudice. yes 40 minutes ago, QuoteTheRaven83 said: I hate Metcalf. It's well documented in this message board I hate Metcalf. This talk about far superior athlete is total bull. I could care less about who the far superior athlete is. I care more about work ethic, smarts and intangibles. People here wanna nut over Metcalf's combine numbers and measurables but I don't see production. To me, TE is a luxury pick that you can take when your roster is well established. If you have a good line, good RB, great QB, decent defense sure take your shot at TE early. We're FAR from that. I want d-line or o-line. Someone will be there at 9. If not, trade down and take Hollywood. me too, get one in the second. I do not feel it is in this particular circumstance. they only come along so often, and when they are a need ? Daboll will make good use of him along with the viable deep threats we already have and Beasley working the middle of the field etc. Guy will block get open and catch the ball for Josh all day long. wrap TJ up and give him to Josh for early Christmas present Bell rung. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsfaninSB Posted April 11, 2019 Share Posted April 11, 2019 I hope it is a little like last year. We take an offensive talent at 9 (AJ) and trade up in the late 1st round to get Wilkins or Lawrence. What would it take to get Seattle’s or Chargers first round pick? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihilarian Posted April 11, 2019 Share Posted April 11, 2019 10 hours ago, 3rdand12 said: They have shown that they have a clue after all. Looked like they were trying to tank with Peterman and that O line and offense in general really. Most likely were planning on building the Offense this year anyways. But putting Allen in really lit the fire !!! in a good way. Beane and Co have responded nicely this "Off" season in FA etc. serious about playing winning football now via Josh Allen ( the QB ) lol. I think they are going to continue to bolster the Receiving core. and at this point TE is the biggest need. it might be the best bang for the buck for the Bills to nail it. and TJ is just that guy. on a couple levels as so many here have mentioned. he is no where near a boom or bust player. he is ready to play/start NFL right away IMO And i think he should become best friends with Josh day one of the draft. ideally we trade down knowing we are getting him. wink nod agreements. and the Bills trade back up with the extra picks possibly into the first round again. : ) but i would be pretty stoked if we made no deal and took my Favorite TE in years to come out of college. I like Oliver if they go defense at nine. get me both somehow Beanes. trade next 1st get er done I honestly don't think it was Beane's or anyone else's intention to tank last season as they did attempt to bring in some free agents. Some certainly low cost due to cap constrictions. The team also traded for WR Kelvin Benjamin by the trade deadline in 2017, a player that if he had the heart and desire to play his best could have been a huge asset at WR. Anyway, look at the free agent signings. Impact starters, DT Star Lotulelei, DE Trent Murphy, CB Vonte Davis. Borderline starters, QB AJ McCarron, WR Jeremy Kerley, CB Phillip Gains, C Russell Bodine, OT Marshall Newhouse. Backups, RB Chris Ivory, S Rafael Bush, DE Owamagbe Odighizuwa, WR Kaelin Clay, LBer Julian Stanford. Back of the roster, DE Terrence Fede, DT Tenny Palepoi. We also need to remember that the GM usually doesn't select free agents all on his own as he gets info/input from his scouts and assistant coaches. Who else thinks that that O line coach/Run game coordinator was a wasted hire and a waste of space in Buffalo? So, his opinion on O line players was probably worthless as was his opinion on Peterman. Both Bills OC's Rick Dennison and Brian Daboll were fooled by Nathan Peterman into thinking that Peterman was a viable backup QB. In Daboll's case, it was worse because he had that bum pegged as the starting QB last year with him getting all the starting reps for the opener. Last season with literally no holes for the RB's because the line was so bad the run game suffered big time. Which then put more responsibility to carry the offense on the QB shoulders (a rookie, right!). With no run game, it also made it more difficult for the defense to do their job as they were on the field so often in every game. Lack of time of possession by the offense caused the defense to wear down near the end of the game and also was the cause of many blowouts last season. (At least 5 or 6) This season the Bills made C Mitch Morse the highest paid center in the league in free agency as this makes more sense rather than have a rookie calling the protections for the line. This offseason the Bills spent 38 million to six new offensive linemen with 317 games of experience between them. OG Quintin Spain to LG. Mitch Morse to Center. Spencer Long to RG/backup center. Jon Feliciano to backup OG. Ty Nsekhe to RT. LaAdrian Waddle to backup OT. I see the new Bills O line pretty well set in the first round of the draft unless they are unhappy with the play of Dawkins last season. Which was a dropoff from 2017. I'm with you though and can only hope that they go after that stud TE who is graded by some as the 5th best player in the draft. https://www.nfl.com/draft/tracker/prospects Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdand12 Posted April 11, 2019 Share Posted April 11, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, Nihilarian said: I honestly don't think it was Beane's or anyone else's intention to tank last season as they did attempt to bring in some free agents. Some certainly low cost due to cap constrictions. The team also traded for WR Kelvin Benjamin by the trade deadline in 2017, a player that if he had the heart and desire to play his best could have been a huge asset at WR. Anyway, look at the free agent signings. Impact starters, DT Star Lotulelei, DE Trent Murphy, CB Vonte Davis. Borderline starters, QB AJ McCarron, WR Jeremy Kerley, CB Phillip Gains, C Russell Bodine, OT Marshall Newhouse. Backups, RB Chris Ivory, S Rafael Bush, DE Owamagbe Odighizuwa, WR Kaelin Clay, LBer Julian Stanford. Back of the roster, DE Terrence Fede, DT Tenny Palepoi. We also need to remember that the GM usually doesn't select free agents all on his own as he gets info/input from his scouts and assistant coaches. Who else thinks that that O line coach/Run game coordinator was a wasted hire and a waste of space in Buffalo? So, his opinion on O line players was probably worthless as was his opinion on Peterman. Both Bills OC's Rick Dennison and Brian Daboll were fooled by Nathan Peterman into thinking that Peterman was a viable backup QB. In Daboll's case, it was worse because he had that bum pegged as the starting QB last year with him getting all the starting reps for the opener. Last season with literally no holes for the RB's because the line was so bad the run game suffered big time. Which then put more responsibility to carry the offense on the QB shoulders (a rookie, right!). With no run game, it also made it more difficult for the defense to do their job as they were on the field so often in every game. Lack of time of possession by the offense caused the defense to wear down near the end of the game and also was the cause of many blowouts last season. (At least 5 or 6) This season the Bills made C Mitch Morse the highest paid center in the league in free agency as this makes more sense rather than have a rookie calling the protections for the line. This offseason the Bills spent 38 million to six new offensive linemen with 317 games of experience between them. OG Quintin Spain to LG. Mitch Morse to Center. Spencer Long to RG/backup center. Jon Feliciano to backup OG. Ty Nsekhe to RT. LaAdrian Waddle to backup OT. I see the new Bills O line pretty well set in the first round of the draft unless they are unhappy with the play of Dawkins last season. Which was a dropoff from 2017. I'm with you though and can only hope that they go after that stud TE who is graded by some as the 5th best player in the draft. https://www.nfl.com/draft/tracker/prospects Tank is not the correct word. Bad on my part. They were building a team with limited resources. and the Offense in my opinion was consciously limited. Only so much money and time to turnover the roster. no one expected playoffs. good details to your point sir : ) Edited April 11, 2019 by 3rdand12 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicken Boo Posted April 11, 2019 Share Posted April 11, 2019 12 hours ago, NewDayBills said: Hock gives Allen a big target that can dominate on a Rob Gronkowski level. That's priceless. Where do you guys get this stuff? Gronkowski level, my ass! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victory Formation Posted April 11, 2019 Share Posted April 11, 2019 11 minutes ago, Chicken Boo said: Where do you guys get this stuff? Gronkowski level, my ass! That's fine you disagree, doesn't give my opinion any less value than what you attributed to it. I don't take myself that seriously anyhow. Hock is one of the best prospects at TE I've seen since I started following the draft. Disagree untill you're blue in the face, I don't mind. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mrbojanglezs Posted April 11, 2019 Share Posted April 11, 2019 Finally watched his highlights. He is impressive, does it all, goes deep, good speed, goes up and gets it, great hands, blocks. I would be OK with him at 9 or if we can trade back a few spots and get him still even better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrEpsYtown Posted April 11, 2019 Share Posted April 11, 2019 I know most people don't like it, but Walterfootball just mocked Hockenson to the Bills. In his version, basically Oliver, Gary, Allen, Bosa, Williams, White are all gone along with Murray and Taylor. With Oliver gone with pretty much all of the blue chip defensive prospects, they have us taking Hockenson. I think it is possible if this happens, but you still have Burns, Wilkins, Sweat on the board. If anybody takes a quarterback or moves up for one, we are going to get a pretty good defensive prospect. With Oliver, a lot of people are starting to mock him to Tampa and I think that is kind of a weird fit in the Todd Bowles defense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YodaMan79 Posted April 11, 2019 Share Posted April 11, 2019 15 minutes ago, Mrbojanglezs said: Finally watched his highlights. He is impressive, does it all, goes deep, good speed, goes up and gets it, great hands, blocks. I would be OK with him at 9 or if we can trade back a few spots and get him still even better. Show me a upper 1st round prospect with a bad highlight tape. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicken Boo Posted April 11, 2019 Share Posted April 11, 2019 7 hours ago, NewDayBills said: That's fine you disagree, doesn't give my opinion any less value than what you attributed to it. I don't take myself that seriously anyhow. Hock is one of the best prospects at TE I've seen since I started following the draft. Disagree untill you're blue in the face, I don't mind. Nothing personal. It's just a crazy comparison. There was no Gronk before Gronk and I don't think we'll see anything like him any time soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victory Formation Posted April 11, 2019 Share Posted April 11, 2019 1 hour ago, Chicken Boo said: Nothing personal. It's just a crazy comparison. There was no Gronk before Gronk and I don't think we'll see anything like him any time soon. Ok fair enough. Not the first time people questioned my sanity, doubt it'll be the last. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihilarian Posted April 11, 2019 Share Posted April 11, 2019 1 hour ago, Chicken Boo said: Nothing personal. It's just a crazy comparison. There was no Gronk before Gronk and I don't think we'll see anything like him any time soon. Panthers Greg Olsen, Still playing SF Russ Francis, *KC Tony Gonzalez, 14 pro bowls will be in the HoF Holds NFL records for career receiving yards (15,127), receptions (1,325) and touchdowns (111) for tight end Denver Shannon Sharpe HoF, Cleveland Ozzie Newsome HoF, SD Antonio Gates, still playing Bears Mike Ditka HoF, *Oakland Dave Casper HoF, *Dallas Jason Witten, just retired, 10 pro bowls *Colts John Mackey HoF, *SD Kellen Winslow HoF, Dallas Jackie Smith HoF, Lions Charlie Sanders HoF. Gronk isn't even the best of the bunch IMO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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