Thoughts on new Oline?

[GreggTX]

Let's get real. We went from one of the 3 worst OL's in the NFL (not worst OL ever) to an average OL. Our best new OL is Morse who was rated by PFF as the 13th best C in the league. Spain is a tick above 'avg starting G' and Dawkins is definitely avg starting OT at best. Those are our 3 best. I'd say we went from about 31st to 15th. That's a very huge jump and will hopefully be enough to get Shady another 1,000+ yard season as well as helping Allen make much needed strides in his sophmore season.

[Chandler#81]

1 hour ago, hondo in seattle said:

 

There are 64 starting Guards in the NFL.   PFF graded Spain at 35th best.   That makes him an average starting Guard.   

 

 

Its all relative. The 64 you speak of represent the finest athletes on the planet at what they do. We sure didn’t have 1 of the 64 last season, so we’re already much better. At 35, by PFF’s measure, this could well be a fantastic athlete playing in a scheme which doesn’t match with his very best attributes, yet is talented enough to fight through inherent deficiencies. 

Just a guess, but are these ‘Special 64’ playing next to excellent Centers or Tackles on either side of them? 

[Rocky Landing]

My bold prediction, which I think is shared by others, is that Dawkins moves to RG, Nsekhe to LT, and Spain to RG. I think the biggest ? is RT.

[Rockinon]

Funny. No one is talking about the type of blocking scheme that will be deployed with these new additions. A lot of people assume that a zone blocking scheme is likely because that is what Morse did in KC. But, we have significantly gotten bigger on this OL. These guys would excel in a power run game.  Spain for instance, at 330lbs, had a down year last year when they changed to a zone.  He was much better in a power scheme.  I think we are gearing up to wear defenses down with hat on hat blocking. Morse, even has some bulk to him. Teller we know has some power. Nsechke is huge. This line is not going to be doing fancy speed blocks. They're going to meet the Dline head on.

[Doc]

46 minutes ago, Rocky Landing said:

My bold prediction, which I think is shared by others, is that Dawkins moves to RG, Nsekhe to LT, and Spain to RG. I think the biggest ? is RT.

 

Unless they think Spain has been mis-cast as a LG all these years, I don't see them moving him out of that spot, and given his starting experience, he's pencilled-in there to start.  And considering Dawkins didn't look so hot at RT, I don't see them playing him at RT or RG.  Nsekhe meanwhile has played both LT and RT well, and while he prefers LT, the Bills have a need at RT.  The only question IMHO is RG, but I think they'll find a good one and again I think it will be Long.

[The Frankish Reich]

6 hours ago, Rockinon said:

Funny. No one is talking about the type of blocking scheme that will be deployed with these new additions. A lot of people assume that a zone blocking scheme is likely because that is what Morse did in KC. But, we have significantly gotten bigger on this OL. These guys would excel in a power run game.  Spain for instance, at 330lbs, had a down year last year when they changed to a zone.  He was much better in a power scheme.  I think we are gearing up to wear defenses down with hat on hat blocking. Morse, even has some bulk to him. Teller we know has some power. Nsechke is huge. This line is not going to be doing fancy speed blocks. They're going to meet the Dline head on.

Excellent post. I'm looking forward to this, and the addition of Frank Gore would fit the concept too.

[formerlyofCtown]

22 hours ago, I am the egg man said:

They haven't practiced together yet.

 

Outside of a know-it-all soothsayer, no one could formulate an intelligent serious opinion on the new O-line so soon.

 

Unless one is throwing darts at this.

 

 

The bones tell me they are gonna be great.  0 sacks given up all year.

[Nihilarian]

12 hours ago, GreggTX said:

Let's get real. We went from one of the 3 worst OL's in the NFL (not worst OL ever) to an average OL. Our best new OL is Morse who was rated by PFF as the 13th best C in the league. Spain is a tick above 'avg starting G' and Dawkins is definitely avg starting OT at best. Those are our 3 best. I'd say we went from about 31st to 15th. That's a very huge jump and will hopefully be enough to get Shady another 1,000+ yard season as well as helping Allen make much needed strides in his sophmore season.

I don't know man, as that line looked like one of the very worst the Buffalo Bills have ever fielded in the first half of the season. Teller came in and things picked up as he only allowed 8 pressures in 8 games and although he looks like a backup on paper right now. That kid might have something to say about being a backup.

 

Anyway, offensive line players usually play better when they have some decent talent next to them and it goes the opposite way when they don't. 

 

LG Dawkins should play better with a decent starter next to him at LG in Spain. Spain, Morse, and Long should lock down the middle. Morse is a huge upgrade at center and shouldn't be that far off from Eric Wood. Long was a decent starter for the NY Jets at OG so he should do okay.  The question is at right tackle and it looks like Nsekhe will take that spot.

 

Even if this year's starting unit gets to 15th or so overall. That is still a big help to that rookie QB who shouldn't have even started last season as he was supposed to sit and learn. It's the run game that concerns me the most as they were pretty crappy in yards per attempt last season under Castillo (21st). With this new revamped line and Mccoy, Gore I can see the Bills getting back to a top-five run unit. Here's hoping!

 

 

[longtimebillsfan]

I  only know what we all have read.   But through many decades of watching the NFL, it takes a newly assembled line time to mesh.  Don't be surprised if we our oline has a few underwhelming games to start the season.   We should see improvement as the season progressives. 

Edited April 6, 2019 by longtimebillsfan

[Buddo]

Both Feliciano and Long can play Center. They are also both Guards. I doubt Bodine is anywhere as near as effective a Guard as either of them, and will probably end up being released.

Dawkins might be in trouble, as both he and Nsekhe favour LT, although Nsekhe has been capable of playing RT. Much depends on how well Dawkins bounces back after an indifferent year. He obviously wasn't helped by the guys inside of him much.

I believe Dawkins was drafted to play Tackle, and so I think he gets first shot at it.

I can see Dawkins, Spain, Morse, Feliciano/Long Nsekhe being the most likely starters. Feliciano probably has an edge over Long due to familiarity with our new O-Line coach. Waddle shouldn't be discounted from RT, for the self same reason.

I would say that those 7 guys will almost certainly all dress come Sundays. Long/Feliciano would be Guard, Backup Center/Guard, with Waddle your backup Tackle. If Dawkins goes down Nsekhe flips to LT, and if Nsekhe does Waddle comes in for him, as he does if Dawkins goes down and Nsekhe flips.

I don't think it's beyond the realms of possibility that Nsekhe beats Dawkins to the LT spot. I think then Dawkins becomes the backup Tackle. I don't believe that that would mean we are necessarily giving up on him, as I think he still has a bright future, but if he gets beaten out, I think he needs to exhibit some patience and dedication. I really don't think he's suited to play on the right. Currently, even if he was switched to LG, I don't see him getting past Spain on the depth chart.

Having said that, I do still think that ultimately, he will get the start at LT.

[MrEpsYtown]

People are underating Morse a bit I think. I know this won't go over well, but if he stays healthy he will be our best center since Hull. He is a much better player than Eric Wood, who would be second best since that time. He changes everything this year. People need to stop putting so much stock into bs PFF grades. Their linemen grades do not make a lot of sense. Everyone swore Matt Paradis was the better player becuase of PFF grades, yet the market told a very different story. Morse makes everyone around him so much better, and that is not something that is factored into PFF algorithms. 

[Doc]

4 hours ago, Buddo said:

Both Feliciano and Long can play Center. They are also both Guards. I doubt Bodine is anywhere as near as effective a Guard as either of them, and will probably end up being released.

Dawkins might be in trouble, as both he and Nsekhe favour LT, although Nsekhe has been capable of playing RT. Much depends on how well Dawkins bounces back after an indifferent year. He obviously wasn't helped by the guys inside of him much.

I believe Dawkins was drafted to play Tackle, and so I think he gets first shot at it.

I can see Dawkins, Spain, Morse, Feliciano/Long Nsekhe being the most likely starters. Feliciano probably has an edge over Long due to familiarity with our new O-Line coach. Waddle shouldn't be discounted from RT, for the self same reason.

I would say that those 7 guys will almost certainly all dress come Sundays. Long/Feliciano would be Guard, Backup Center/Guard, with Waddle your backup Tackle. If Dawkins goes down Nsekhe flips to LT, and if Nsekhe does Waddle comes in for him, as he does if Dawkins goes down and Nsekhe flips.

I don't think it's beyond the realms of possibility that Nsekhe beats Dawkins to the LT spot. I think then Dawkins becomes the backup Tackle. I don't believe that that would mean we are necessarily giving up on him, as I think he still has a bright future, but if he gets beaten out, I think he needs to exhibit some patience and dedication. I really don't think he's suited to play on the right. Currently, even if he was switched to LG, I don't see him getting past Spain on the depth chart.

Having said that, I do still think that ultimately, he will get the start at LT.

 

Nsekhe is making $5M/year (original reports had it at $7.5M/year), which is 2nd highest on the team.  I'm assuming they expect him to start.  He's an OT who can play both sides and has admitted a preference for LT.  The thing is, Dawkins was terrible on the right side, so by default he'll likely stay there with Nsekhe at RT.

[jahnyc]

I really like the addition of Morse, but I seem to be in the minority with the view that the rest of the OL free agent additions appear to be quality back-ups and and not quality starters.  Nsekhe is 33 and seems best suited to be a swing tackle.  Same with Waddle in terms of being a quality swing tackle.  Long has the ability to play center and guard, which is great for a back-up, but the Jets were eager to replace him after signing him in free agency and then releasing him.  I can see Spain as a bridge to drafting a guard with strong potential.  Feliciano is potentially a quality back-up guard.  

 

I know we have other needs, but I continue to believe that we need to draft a RT or LT and a guard in the early rounds of the draft.  Not sure I understand our current strategy with the o-line other than creating competition and expecting that many of the players on the roster before free agency (and possibly some signed in free agency) will not be making the final roster.

[DJB]

On 4/5/2019 at 4:30 PM, Augie said:

 

I’m curious, any idea where Miller came in? I was surprised by his 3 year $16.5 mil contract ($6.5 guaranteed). I did not see that coming.  

 

It’s rare for me to say that I have “fun” watching a guard play, but he was indeed fun to watch at times last year. I like a guy with some nasty in his blood. 

 

Miller #25 G

Mills #70 T

Ducasse #65

Bodine #18

Edited April 7, 2019 by DJB

[DJB]

 

Maybe a slight concern about continuity but honestly this line will be far better than last year. No longer do we have unathletic lineman attempting to play a zone scheme and coached by the terrible Castillo. 

 

We've replaced Castillo our weakest link and we've added massive road grading maulers and it appears to me that we are moving to a more power scheme,  one that we excelled at two years ago with Wood and Ritchie. 

 

The other positive is it seems Beane and Daboll are on the same page in terms of type of lineman and scheme which to me wasn't there last year. Daboll likely wanted a power scheme and Castillo ran a zone. Now the offence all pieces together and should vastly improve. 

 

[MrEpsYtown]

12 hours ago, jahnyc said:

I really like the addition of Morse, but I seem to be in the minority with the view that the rest of the OL free agent additions appear to be quality back-ups and and not quality starters.  Nsekhe is 33 and seems best suited to be a swing tackle.  Same with Waddle in terms of being a quality swing tackle.  Long has the ability to play center and guard, which is great for a back-up, but the Jets were eager to replace him after signing him in free agency and then releasing him.  I can see Spain as a bridge to drafting a guard with strong potential.  Feliciano is potentially a quality back-up guard.  

 

 

All the reports out there suggested that the Jets wanted Spencer Long back, but at a reduced rate. They were paying him too much for what he was giving them, but suggestions out there say that they liked him at a lower cap number. Beane did a great job in being aggressive with Long before teams like Minnesota or New Orleans could get in on him. He's a better player than a lot of people think.  

[Doc]

12 minutes ago, MrEpsYtown said:

All the reports out there suggested that the Jets wanted Spencer Long back, but at a reduced rate. They were paying him too much for what he was giving them, but suggestions out there say that they liked him at a lower cap number. Beane did a great job in being aggressive with Long before teams like Minnesota or New Orleans could get in on him. He's a better player than a lot of people think.  

 

Yup.  He was due a $3M roster bonus on 2/6 so they cut him and hoped to bring him back.  Their loss.

 

As for the rest of the post to which you were replying, Spain and Long have been starters since their rookie years.  Nsekhe has started a bunch of games and the quality of play didn't drop-off from everything I've read.  They should all start along with Dawkins and Morse.  Feliciano and Waddle have been a backups mostly and I'm not counting on them to win starting jobs, but if they do, great.

 

[ColoradoBills]

On ‎4‎/‎6‎/‎2019 at 9:49 AM, Doc said:

 

Nsekhe is making $5M/year (original reports had it at $7.5M/year), which is 2nd highest on the team.  I'm assuming they expect him to start.  He's an OT who can play both sides and has admitted a preference for LT.  The thing is, Dawkins was terrible on the right side, so by default he'll likely stay there with Nsekhe at RT.

 

This will be a big year for Dawkins.  He (and his agent) know this year is his "prove it" year to show if he can be a better than average LT.

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

On 4/5/2019 at 6:09 PM, Rockinon said:

Funny. No one is talking about the type of blocking scheme that will be deployed with these new additions. A lot of people assume that a zone blocking scheme is likely because that is what Morse did in KC. But, we have significantly gotten bigger on this OL. These guys would excel in a power run game.  Spain for instance, at 330lbs, had a down year last year when they changed to a zone.  He was much better in a power scheme.  I think we are gearing up to wear defenses down with hat on hat blocking. Morse, even has some bulk to him. Teller we know has some power. Nsechke is huge. This line is not going to be doing fancy speed blocks. They're going to meet the Dline head on.

 

My opinion is this as well. Gore, road-graders and that other TE they grabbed signal that they are moving down this path.

 

Morse at Center was the best option available and he’ll be able to pull and hit second level at the point of attack.. 

 

Then after pounding the defense with that hammer, then swing it to shady outside or play action to brown deep outside or Beasley who sits in holes made by bailing out LBs... 

 

See Dabolls DNA in Patsville. 

[Shaw66]

16 hours ago, jahnyc said:

I really like the addition of Morse, but I seem to be in the minority with the view that the rest of the OL free agent additions appear to be quality back-ups and and not quality starters.  Nsekhe is 33 and seems best suited to be a swing tackle.  Same with Waddle in terms of being a quality swing tackle.  Long has the ability to play center and guard, which is great for a back-up, but the Jets were eager to replace him after signing him in free agency and then releasing him.  I can see Spain as a bridge to drafting a guard with strong potential.  Feliciano is potentially a quality back-up guard.  

 

I know we have other needs, but I continue to believe that we need to draft a RT or LT and a guard in the early rounds of the draft.  Not sure I understand our current strategy with the o-line other than creating competition and expecting that many of the players on the roster before free agency (and possibly some signed in free agency) will not be making the final roster.

I agree. Othe than Motse, the free agents aren't stars in the making. One or two probably will turn into solid starters, but that's not enough for the long term.  

 

Beane will go BPA, and if the BPA is an olineman, he will be very happy to take him.