Ronin Posted March 28, 2019 Share Posted March 28, 2019 7 minutes ago, row_33 said: Athletes get their degrees at the same rate and take as long as the average student, most students on campus are there just to dork around and party in in the first place. You are going to invoke Harvard to talk about pro-football potential? LOL... No, but at the same time, read the above links. They refute what you just said. Again, referring to players that will actually make something of themselves in the NFL or those that get drafted in the 1st round. Other studies have shown that basketball and football players' graduation rates lag those of the student body at large. Keep in mind, that the number of athletes in sports other than those two by far outweigh the number of basketball and football players, which are probably around 120 total at any large school. That includes a wealth of walk-ons with little if any NFL caliber football talent too. Go thru our roster of starters for example and count how many have degrees. A simple exercise, might take you half-an-hour but doable. Mabye I'm off. You can also do the same for the first round last year. Consider the number of football and basketball players that are NBA or NFL caliber, few stick around for four years relatively speaking. The best ones fulfill their collegiate participation requirements and enter the draft. It's widely known that black athletes graduation rates are well below average for their schools. Seems to me that most great NBA and NFL players are black. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
row_33 Posted March 28, 2019 Share Posted March 28, 2019 student athletes at Harvard do as well academically as the average incoming student at Harvard the last 15 kids i've sat beside at a game in the US told me they were at a JuCo hoping to boost their grades to get into State, which isn't exactly a ringing endorsement for the average aspiring student, which is reality Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gugny Posted March 28, 2019 Share Posted March 28, 2019 2 hours ago, TheTruthHurts said: It doesn't at all. What makes you think the Wonderlic gives any indication of how a QB will perform in the NFL? I'm using all caps for certain words to underscore the importance of the words; I'm not being a dick. Since 2000, it has been a phenomenal identifier of QBs who will NOT fare well in the NFL. Zero QBs, since 2000, have been successful starters when they scored below 16 on the Wonderlic. Zero. Zilcho. Nada. This does NOT mean that one who scores HIGHER than 15 WILL do well. Bottom line: The Wonderilc DOES NOT TELL US WHO WILL BE GOOD. It CAN tell us who MIGHT be good. The Wonderlic DOES TELL US WHO WILL NOT BE GOOD. It does this with amazing consistency (since 2000). 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K-9 Posted March 28, 2019 Share Posted March 28, 2019 16 minutes ago, Gugny said: I'm using all caps for certain words to underscore the importance of the words; I'm not being a dick. Since 2000, it has been a phenomenal identifier of QBs who will NOT fare well in the NFL. Zero QBs, since 2000, have been successful starters when they scored below 16 on the Wonderlic. Zero. Zilcho. Nada. This does NOT mean that one who scores HIGHER than 15 WILL do well. Bottom line: The Wonderilc DOES NOT TELL US WHO WILL BE GOOD. It CAN tell us who MIGHT be good. The Wonderlic DOES TELL US WHO WILL NOT BE GOOD. It does this with amazing consistency (since 2000). Interesting stuff. It may point to how much more complex the game has become in the last twenty years on both sides of the ball. From schemes to sub packages, there’s a lot more moving parts that a QB needs to be aware of. Granted, they get far more help from the sidelines and booth on a play to play basis, but so do defenses. A difficult position that’s always been a challenge to play well, has become more challenging over the years. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HomeTeam Posted March 28, 2019 Share Posted March 28, 2019 On 3/26/2019 at 9:50 AM, FeelingOnYouboty said: Look at the intelligence of my QB. The sheer acumen of my QB. The brain capacity of my QB. The intellect of my QB. the aptitude of my QB. The precociousness of my QB. The IQ of my QB. Haha. My quarterback is soo smart. Your quarterbacks are useless!! My quarterback is soo wonderful. Quarterback, quarterback, quarterback. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo_Stampede Posted March 28, 2019 Share Posted March 28, 2019 37 minutes ago, Gugny said: I'm using all caps for certain words to underscore the importance of the words; I'm not being a dick. Since 2000, it has been a phenomenal identifier of QBs who will NOT fare well in the NFL. Zero QBs, since 2000, have been successful starters when they scored below 16 on the Wonderlic. Zero. Zilcho. Nada. This does NOT mean that one who scores HIGHER than 15 WILL do well. Bottom line: The Wonderilc DOES NOT TELL US WHO WILL BE GOOD. It CAN tell us who MIGHT be good. The Wonderlic DOES TELL US WHO WILL NOT BE GOOD. It does this with amazing consistency (since 2000). I know all of that. Very few QBs scored below 16 since 2000, especially top guys. It's just not something worth evaluating. If a QB did score low today then yes I would avoid him, but reality is most will score high enough where I don't even think about Wonderlic anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gugny Posted March 28, 2019 Share Posted March 28, 2019 Just now, TheTruthHurts said: I know all of that. Very few QBs scored below 16 since 2000, especially top guys. It's just not something worth evaluating. If a QB did score low today then yes I would avoid him, but reality is most will score high enough where I don't even think about Wonderlic anymore. Yes ... but those with low Wonderlics continue to be drafted/start. Those GMs should be fired. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt_In_NH Posted March 28, 2019 Share Posted March 28, 2019 Its good to have a high score I guess but in and of itself it does not mean much. I would be curious if there is a measurement for reading and reacting to spatial processing. The ability to see and react to what 21 other guys are doing in fractions of a second. Intelligence does not necessarily correlate to reading and reacting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo_Stampede Posted March 28, 2019 Share Posted March 28, 2019 Just now, Gugny said: Yes ... but those with low Wonderlics continue to be drafted/start. Those GMs should be fired. Paxton Lynch (18) and Lamar Jackson (13) stick out, but that's about it recently. 3 minutes ago, mattynh said: Its good to have a high score I guess but in and of itself it does not mean much. I would be curious if there is a measurement for reading and reacting to spatial processing. The ability to see and react to what 21 other guys are doing in fractions of a second. Intelligence does not necessarily correlate to reading and reacting. Read, react, accuracy, and velocity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted March 28, 2019 Share Posted March 28, 2019 11 minutes ago, TheTruthHurts said: I know all of that. Very few QBs scored below 16 since 2000, especially top guys. It's just not something worth evaluating. If a QB did score low today then yes I would avoid him, but reality is most will score high enough where I don't even think about Wonderlic anymore. Did you support Lamar Jackson last year? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gugny Posted March 28, 2019 Share Posted March 28, 2019 Just now, TheTruthHurts said: Paxton Lynch (18) and Lamar Jackson (13) stick out, but that's about it recently. Others who, at one point, had starting jobs and were not good enough to keep them: Tyrod Taylor (15) David Garrard (14) Seneca Wallace (14) Terrelle Pryor (7) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo_Stampede Posted March 28, 2019 Share Posted March 28, 2019 Just now, Joe in Winslow said: Did you support Lamar Jackson last year? Different type of QB. 1 minute ago, Gugny said: Others who, at one point, had starting jobs and were not good enough to keep them: Tyrod Taylor (15) David Garrard (14) Seneca Wallace (14) Terrelle Pryor (7) Some of those QB's were much better starters than many of the higher scoring QB's. It's just a waste of time to analyze the scores. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gugny Posted March 28, 2019 Share Posted March 28, 2019 4 minutes ago, TheTruthHurts said: Different type of QB. Some of those QB's were much better starters than many of the higher scoring QB's. It's just a waste of time to analyze the scores. And I'll remind you that high scores are not predictive of NFL QB success. It's not a waste of time. If a QB scores less than 16, then any GM who adds said QB to the roster (as anything more than a backup) has no business being in the league. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iinii Posted March 28, 2019 Share Posted March 28, 2019 Gore got a 6. Kelly had a 15. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo_Stampede Posted March 28, 2019 Share Posted March 28, 2019 Just now, Gugny said: And I'll remind you that high scores are not predictive of NFL QB success. It's not a waste of time. If a QB scores less than 16, then any GM who adds said QB to the roster (as anything more than a backup) has no business being in the league. OK. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Figster Posted March 28, 2019 Share Posted March 28, 2019 7 hours ago, iinii said: Gore got a 6. Kelly had a 15. The game has changed, become more complex since the days of Kelly and Marino. Starting QB's in todays NFL have more responsibilities. Face more sophisticated and better disguised Defenses. While I wouldn't go as far as saying Jim Kelly couldn't excel in todays NFL because I actually think he would. If I have the choice of drafting similar athletes by way of skill set, one scores 15 on the wonderlic, the other 32, I'm taking the athlete with the better wonderlic score. Especially at the QB position. Myself personally, the wonderlic score doesn't gauge how well an athlete thinks under pressure. Jim Kelly was fearless. Dan Marino was fearless. Without that fearless mentality I'm not sure it matters how high you score on the wonderlic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloBob Posted March 29, 2019 Share Posted March 29, 2019 On 3/26/2019 at 11:51 AM, chris heff said: Josh Allen is a “very stable genius”. Well yeah now that he’s worked on his footwork! ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Over 29 years of fanhood Posted March 29, 2019 Share Posted March 29, 2019 On 3/26/2019 at 10:22 AM, C.Biscuit97 said: Yeah, these aren’t related at all. Jim Kelly got a 15. Marino got a 16. Fitz got a 48. football intelligence is completely different than wonderlic “intelligence.” I wonder if athletes could slip through academic barriers more easily back then. There are some learned components of the wonderlic, no idea what it was then, That even if you are intelligent and can process fast, you’d get wrong because you blew off basic class stuff... was it it easier to not do well in school but succeed in pro sports back then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rebel101 Posted March 29, 2019 Share Posted March 29, 2019 On 3/26/2019 at 10:19 AM, Forward Progress said: For those who want to know all of the scores... NFL Wonderlic Scores I have pulled out a list of QB's for the sake of reference: Player Score Position Ryan Fitzpatrick 48 QB Blaine Gabbert 42 QB Carson Wentz 40 QB Alex Smith 40 QB Eli Manning 39 QB Matthew Stafford 38 QB Colin Kaepernick 38 QB Josh Allen 37 QB Tony Romo 37 QB Andrew Luck 37 QB Jared Goff 36 QB Sam Bradford 36 QB Drew Bledsoe 36 QB Aaron Rodgers 35 QB Ryan Tannehill 34 QB Tom Brady 33 QB Nathan Peterman 33 QB Steve Young 33 QB Marcus Mariota 33 QB Kirk Cousins 33 QB Johnny Manziel 32 QB Matt Ryan 32 QB JP Losman 31 QB Trent Edwards 31 QB Phillip Rivers 30 QB Josh McCown 30 QB Matt Barkley 30 QB Josh Rosen 29 QB Troy Aikman 29 QB John Elway 29 QB Andy Dalton 29 QB Rex Grossman 29 QB Nick Foles 29 QB Matt Hasselbeck 29 QB Jimmy Garoppolo 29 QB Sam Darnold 28 QB Blake Bortles 28 QB Mark Sanchez 28 QB Drew Brees 28 QB Peyton Manning 28 QB EJ Manuel 28 QB Russell Wilson 28 QB Joe Flacco 27 QB Carson Palmer 26 QB Jay Cutler 26 QB Kyle Orton 26 QB Baker Mayfield 25 QB Ben Roethlisberger 25 QB Chad Pennington 25 QB Colt McCoy 25 QB Cardale Jones 25 QB Dak Prescott 25 QB Mitchell Trubisky 25 QB Brock Osweiler 25 QB JaMarcus Russell 24 QB Jacoby Brissett 24 QB Geno Smith 24 QB David Carr 24 QB Patrick Mahomes 24 QB Robert Griffin III 24 QB Jordan Palmer 23 QB Tim Tebow 22 QB Brett Farve 22 QB AJ McCarron 22 QB Cam Newton 21 QB Deshaun Watson 20 QB Teddy Bridgewater 20 QB Jake Locker 20 QB Derek Carr 20 QB Michael Vick 20 QB Derek Anderson 19 QB Daunte Culpepper 18 QB Paxton Lynch 18 QB Vinny Testaverde 17 QB Terry Bradshaw 16 QB Dan Marino 16 QB Jim Kelly 15 QB Vince Young 15 QB Steve Mcnair 15 QB Donovan Mcnabb 14 QB Kordell Stewart 14 QB Lamar Jackson 13 QB Vince Young 6 QB Vince Young a 6 though ?????♂️ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iinii Posted March 29, 2019 Share Posted March 29, 2019 16 hours ago, Figster said: The game has changed, become more complex since the days of Kelly and Marino. Starting QB's in todays NFL have more responsibilities. Face more sophisticated and better disguised Defenses. While I wouldn't go as far as saying Jim Kelly couldn't excel in todays NFL because I actually think he would. If I have the choice of drafting similar athletes by way of skill set, one scores 15 on the wonderlic, the other 32, I'm taking the athlete with the better wonderlic score. Especially at the QB position. Myself personally, the wonderlic score doesn't gauge how well an athlete thinks under pressure. Jim Kelly was fearless. Dan Marino was fearless. Without that fearless mentality I'm not sure it matters how high you score on the wonderlic. So you would take Fitzpatrick over Kelly? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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