LOVEMESOMEBILLS Posted March 25, 2019 Share Posted March 25, 2019 Just now, mannc said: You are forgetting about Gronk’s 16 post-season games (an entire season of playoff football) in which he caught 12 TD passes and accumulated over 1200 yards on about 80 receptions. And three Super Bowl rings. Because he played with the best QB of all time and the best coach of all time? As it was mentioned before, Brady has started 18 seasons and he has as many rings in the 9 years without Gronk as the 9 years with him. Win percentage is about the same with him as before him. Did he matter that much or was it way more to do with Brady & Belichick? They plug and play people all over the field and have been doing it for years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mannc Posted March 25, 2019 Share Posted March 25, 2019 Just now, LOVEMESOMEBILLS said: Because he played with the best QB of all time and the best coach of all time? As it was mentioned before, Brady has started 18 seasons and he has as many rings in the 9 years without Gronk as the 9 years with him. Win percentage is about the same with him as before him. Did he matter that much or was it way more to do with Brady & Belichick? They plug and play people all over the field and have been doing it for years. The winning percentage before he got there is irrelevant. They were completely different teams. If you think Gronkowski was just an interchangeable part in the Patriots’ machine, it shows that you didn’t watch him play. And at any rate, there is zero evidence that that’s true. He was pretty much uncoverable, and was a great blocker as well. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mannc Posted March 25, 2019 Share Posted March 25, 2019 1 hour ago, Boatdrinks said: Fair point. Though it’s become cliche, don’t they say the best ability is availability ? Gronkowski dominated for sure, but his durability takes him out of the all time best conversation imo. Is he HOF great ? Absolutely. But so was Terrell Davis. Durability and longevity are factors, but only up to a point. For my money, OJ Simpson was the greatest RB to play the game, even though he only had four truly dominant seasons. At any rate, it’s not like Gronkowski had a short career. He was the best TE in the game for a decade. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#34fan Posted March 25, 2019 Share Posted March 25, 2019 14 minutes ago, LOVEMESOMEBILLS said: 4 dominant years in his career and your putting him up with the best of all time, sorry just can't do it with that small of a window of being dominant. The rings help... But other than that, Gronk was clutch all day... Got you whatever you needed, whenever you needed it. Guy is a total bust... -HOF bust, that is. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LOVEMESOMEBILLS Posted March 25, 2019 Share Posted March 25, 2019 11 minutes ago, mannc said: You are forgetting about Gronk’s 16 post-season games (an entire season of playoff football) in which he caught 12 TD passes and accumulated over 1200 yards on about 80 receptions. And three Super Bowl rings. Other than Tom Brady, Gronk was easily the best player on the most dominant NFL dynasty of all time. Your suggestion that he wasn’t a difference-maker is one of the worst takes of all time. I'm not forgetting Gronk's 16 games in the post season, but I was comparing him to Moss, who played in 15 post season games and Rice, who played in 29 post season games. Why include it when the two guys I'm comparing him to played in as many or in Rice's case almost double the post season games. As far as Gronk being the second most dominate player on the most dominate NFL dynasty of all time, who would be the 3rd most dominate? Exactly, after Brady who cares because they haven't had that many really good players for any stretch during Brady's time playing. 2 minutes ago, #34fan said: The rings help... But other than that, Gronk was clutch all day... Got you whatever you needed, whenever you needed it. Guy is a total bust... -HOF bust, that is. Not saying he wasn't really good, just not putting him up with the all time greats with only 4 really good years and ranking 104th in receiving for his career. He didn't even crack the top 100. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mannc Posted March 25, 2019 Share Posted March 25, 2019 (edited) 17 minutes ago, LOVEMESOMEBILLS said: I'm not forgetting Gronk's 16 games in the post season, but I was comparing him to Moss, who played in 15 post season games and Rice, who played in 29 post season games. Why include it when the two guys I'm comparing him to played in as many or in Rice's case almost double the post season games. As far as Gronk being the second most dominate player on the most dominate NFL dynasty of all time, who would be the 3rd most dominate? Exactly, after Brady who cares because they haven't had that many really good players for any stretch during Brady's time playing. Not saying he wasn't really good, just not putting him up with the all time greats with only 4 really good years and ranking 104th in receiving for his career. He didn't even crack the top 100. The Patriots have had a lot of great players over the past 18 years. The fact that none of them measures up to Gronkowski is hardly a mark against him. And I’m not sure why you are comparing Gronk to Moss and Rice. Those guys were not TEs and never threw a block in their lives. Come to think of it, same is true of Gonzalez, really. And the word is dominant, not dominate. ? Edited March 25, 2019 by mannc 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ol Dirty B Posted March 25, 2019 Share Posted March 25, 2019 8 hours ago, starrymessenger said: Good. Great player, wrong uni. He's a douche. Wish him the worst. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MacGyver Posted March 25, 2019 Share Posted March 25, 2019 11 hours ago, Canadian Bills Fan said: I'm glad he retired before the game retired him In 20 years he'll likely be wishing he never played. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted March 25, 2019 Share Posted March 25, 2019 3 hours ago, Ol Dirty B said: He's a douche. Wish him the worst. Finally. Something we agree on. I don't understand how any self-respecting Bills fan can be here carrying water for him after what he pulled on Tre White. Just disgusting. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gugny Posted March 25, 2019 Share Posted March 25, 2019 (edited) 11 minutes ago, Joe in Winslow said: Finally. Something we agree on. I don't understand how any self-respecting Bills fan can be here carrying water for him after what he pulled on Tre White. Just disgusting. I don't understand how any self-respecting football fan can define one's entire 9-year-career by one play. And how can any self-respecting Bills fan be here carrying water for Jordan Poyer and Kyle Williams after doing nothing after Gronk hit Tre? Front row seats to this capital offense and all they did was ask for a flag. Edited March 25, 2019 by Gugny Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted March 25, 2019 Share Posted March 25, 2019 Just now, Gugny said: I don't understand how any self-respecting football fan can define one's entire 9-year-career by one play. And how can any self-respecting be here carrying water for Jordan Poyer and Kyle Williams after doing nothing after Gronk hit Tre? Front row seats to this capital offense and all they did was ask for a flag. Being disgusted at the perpetrator doesn't preclude one from being disgusted with those who did nothing about it. Looking at YOU, PBrown. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CommonCents Posted March 25, 2019 Share Posted March 25, 2019 3 minutes ago, Joe in Winslow said: Being disgusted at the perpetrator doesn't preclude one from being disgusted with those who did nothing about it. Looking at YOU, PBrown. PBrown short for Panties Brown. At that height of Gronk’s career he was arguably the best TE ever. Size, strength, speed, hands, determination. He had it all going for him and was one of the biggest mismatches in the NFL not just the TE position. Other TEs had longer runs of being good but I don’t remember anyone being better than Gronk at his peak. I’m glad he is gone. Elbowing dropping Tre because he was frustrated is going to be my lasting memory of him. That and the non reaction by Brown and company. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
machine gun kelly Posted March 25, 2019 Share Posted March 25, 2019 1 down, 2 B’s to go. I’d lay money it will be two more years, not 4-5 as those hits are going to pile up and Giselle is going to get sick of waiting losing him for half a year minimum. Id bet Brady skips a lot of OTA’s. Belicheck would be turning 69 three years from now so likely he rides off with Brady. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted March 25, 2019 Share Posted March 25, 2019 (edited) 9 hours ago, LOVEMESOMEBILLS said: Ok, Gronk caught 397 passes that got a first down, Tony caught 864 passes that netted a first down. Your stat and Tony kills him in another one. Receiving yards for a career Tony ranks 5th, Gronk ranks 104th. He only played in 115 games, not nearly enough to put him in the discussion for best TE ever. Mere counting stats. 8 hours ago, LOVEMESOMEBILLS said: Because he played with the best QB of all time and the best coach of all time? As it was mentioned before, Brady has started 18 seasons and he has as many rings in the 9 years without Gronk as the 9 years with him. Win percentage is about the same with him as before him. Did he matter that much or was it way more to do with Brady & Belichick? They plug and play people all over the field and have been doing it for years. I can go through any number of postseason games in which HE made the play as much as anyone. To start, the amazing fourth and long catch against Denver in the 2015 AFC championship that put them in position to tie the game. His catches against KC late in the AFC championship game this season. His blocking vs the Chargers this year and vs the Colts in the 2014 afc championship game. His embarrasment of Darby in the Super Bowl last season. it goes without saying that he was a MUCH better blocker than Gonzalez ever was. Edited March 25, 2019 by dave mcbride Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted March 25, 2019 Share Posted March 25, 2019 Chris Simms speaks truth here: https://www.nbcsports.com/video/new-england-patriots-rob-gronkowski-retires-after-nine-seasons?ls=pftvod 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K-9 Posted March 25, 2019 Share Posted March 25, 2019 GOAT discussions, from athletes to zookeepers and everything in between, while sometimes good food for thought, are ALWAYS futile. Gronk is a first ballot HOFer because he dominated his position in his era. Just like every other first ballot HOF tightend before him. They all have a seat at the table of the greatest. And it is a round table. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spiderweb Posted March 25, 2019 Share Posted March 25, 2019 3 hours ago, Joe in Winslow said: Finally. Something we agree on. I don't understand how any self-respecting Bills fan can be here carrying water for him after what he pulled on Tre White. Just disgusting. Remember this was a top talent, a born Bills Fan, who's home team passed on drafting him twice if I recall. He"s had a simmering well disclosed anger for the Bills for ruining his dream of being a Buffalo Bill. Great talent, one of the best TE's to ever play the game. Yet he did take an uncharacteristic cheap shot at Tre White, one of the few DBs ever to really get under his skin..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iinii Posted March 25, 2019 Share Posted March 25, 2019 16 hours ago, 17years&waiting said: Fixed it for you... Much better Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted March 25, 2019 Share Posted March 25, 2019 45 minutes ago, Spiderweb said: Remember this was a top talent, a born Bills Fan, who's home team passed on drafting him twice if I recall. He"s had a simmering well disclosed anger for the Bills for ruining his dream of being a Buffalo Bill. Great talent, one of the best TE's to ever play the game. Yet he did take an uncharacteristic cheap shot at Tre White, one of the few DBs ever to really get under his skin..... Still doesn't excuse him using his bionic arm to try and cripple a guy with a cheap shot to the neck. Sure, it's "just one play" to paraphrase @Gugny, but man. That's just filthy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gugny Posted March 25, 2019 Share Posted March 25, 2019 Just now, Joe in Winslow said: Still doesn't excuse him using his bionic arm to try and cripple a guy with a cheap shot to the neck. Sure, it's "just one play" to paraphrase @Gugny, but man. That's just filthy. It was horrible. Pissed me off as much as it did everyone else. But it doesn't make Gronk a dirty player. It made him a great player who had one very dirty hit. And it's kind of Tre White's fault for laying there after the INT, anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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