If Allen is real deal, bills make playoffs

[WideNine]

On 3/19/2019 at 8:21 PM, Augie said:

 

I’ll take solid progress, and be pleased with that. There are a lot of moving parts here, and NFL QB is not an easy job.  QBorBust2018 can picnic if you like. I hope I never panic over a sports team. 

 

There seemed to be quite a lot of critique of Allen not settling in the pocket and taking the easy throws underneath.

 

The Bills took a QB who mostly had to run for his life and carry his team in Wyoming, to our Bills squad where he mostly had to run for his life and carry the offense.

 

Get that protection fixed, then the kid can maybe approach the game a different way than he is used to.

 

With better protection and a supportive run game, he can grow into the QB we all want to see him become.

 

 

 

[CincyBillsFan]

22 minutes ago, WideNine said:

 

There seemed to be quite a lot of critique of Allen not settling in the pocket and taking the easy throws underneath.

 

The Bills took a QB who mostly had to run for his life and carry his team in Wyoming, to our Bills squad where he mostly had to run for his life and carry the offense.

 

Get that protection fixed, then the kid can maybe approach the game a different way than he is used to.

 

With better protection and a supportive run game, he can grow into the QB we all want to see him become.

 

 

 

 

And when given time to sit in the pocket Allen had a number of memorable throws.  Specifically watch replays of his TD throws against Jacksonville, Detroit, Miami & the last TD throw against Miami at home in the final game.  He sits in the pocket and throws very accurate passes down field.  Even in situations where the pocket collapses around him like the famous Jacksonville TD pass or his last TD pass against Miami, he seems oblivious of the pressure.   

 

In fact I can't recall a single inaccurate pass when he was able to sit in the pocket after he came back from his injury (I'm sure there was one I just don't recall it).  My sense was that on a lot of plays Allen faced IMMEDIATE pressure up the middle and was forced to roll out.  These were not cases where he abandoned the pocket to early these were cases of move or be sacked.  In many of these situations he connected with accurate throws down the field.  Again watch his highlight tapes to see what I'm talking about. 

 

Shoring up the Bill's pass protection up the middle was the #1 need on this O-line IMO.  And they've done that with their FA signings.  This is why I expect to see a huge jump in Allen's accuracy & passing production.  That extra second is going to be the death of opposing secondary's. 

[WideNine]

2 hours ago, CincyBillsFan said:

 

And when given time to sit in the pocket Allen had a number of memorable throws.  Specifically watch replays of his TD throws against Jacksonville, Detroit, Miami & the last TD throw against Miami at home in the final game.  He sits in the pocket and throws very accurate passes down field.  Even in situations where the pocket collapses around him like the famous Jacksonville TD pass or his last TD pass against Miami, he seems oblivious of the pressure.   

 

In fact I can't recall a single inaccurate pass when he was able to sit in the pocket after he came back from his injury (I'm sure there was one I just don't recall it).  My sense was that on a lot of plays Allen faced IMMEDIATE pressure up the middle and was forced to roll out.  These were not cases where he abandoned the pocket to early these were cases of move or be sacked.  In many of these situations he connected with accurate throws down the field.  Again watch his highlight tapes to see what I'm talking about. 

 

Shoring up the Bill's pass protection up the middle was the #1 need on this O-line IMO.  And they've done that with their FA signings.  This is why I expect to see a huge jump in Allen's accuracy & passing production.  That extra second is going to be the death of opposing secondary's. 

 

Totally agree.

 

Almost, if not as important as the infusion of veteran talent on the o-line, was OBD's quick grab of Bobby Johnson, who was working under Dave Deguglielmo in Indy, and under D'Alessandris for the Bills during the Gailey era.

 

He has been a part of some really successful programs and worked under solid o-line coaches. Those lines could pass protect and open holes in the run game.

 

I am hopeful that the apple does not fall very far from the tree as he drops the assistant title. We will see how these guys gel, but they could become dominant.

 

A lot of new parts that will need some time to come together, but there is reason to be optimistic.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[ganesh]

On 3/20/2019 at 10:40 AM, MJS said:

Is Phillip Rivers the real deal? How many times has he missed the playoffs? Is Drew Brees? Ben Rothlisburger? Good QB's miss the playoffs sometimes.

Rivers made the playoffs SIX of the 13 seasons he has played....Less than 50%

[LSHMEAB]

7 minutes ago, ganesh said:

Rivers made the playoffs SIX of the 13 seasons he has played....Less than 50%

And how many coaches has Rivers run through?

 

I think the overall point of the thread is that something is going to be amiss about the direction of the team if the Bills don't at the very least compete for a playoff spot.

 

These are all excellent points about good quarterbacks missing the playoffs, but there's regime change when that happens more than once.

[#34fan]

If Daboll is the real deal, -Bills make the Playoffs.

[MJS]

10 hours ago, LSHMEAB said:

And how many coaches has Rivers run through?

 

I think the overall point of the thread is that something is going to be amiss about the direction of the team if the Bills don't at the very least compete for a playoff spot.

 

These are all excellent points about good quarterbacks missing the playoffs, but there's regime change when that happens more than once.

 

Not for the Saints. They missed the playoffs for a few years even with Brees throwing for 5000 yards a season. Their coach remained.

[LSHMEAB]

2 hours ago, MJS said:

 

Not for the Saints. They missed the playoffs for a few years even with Brees throwing for 5000 yards a season. Their coach remained.

Yep. That's the ONLY example of a top tier QB/Coach remaining together through more than one down year, but that is the outlier.

 

As Jerry Glanville so eloquently stated, this is the NFL, which stands for NOT FOR LONG. THIS is the season for McDermott/Allen to show their worth. I don't really understand all this trepidation. Almost like people expect this regime to fail, but still want to keep them around? It's honestly kind of odd.

 

I like McDermott. Allen has shown some promise but I'm leery. I liked Beane's signings this season a whole lot more than Star/Murphy. But if you're all in on this regime, there is NO reason to think they won't be a contender THIS season.

[WideNine]

1 hour ago, LSHMEAB said:

Yep. That's the ONLY example of a top tier QB/Coach remaining together through more than one down year, but that is the outlier.

 

As Jerry Glanville so eloquently stated, this is the NFL, which stands for NOT FOR LONG. THIS is the season for McDermott/Allen to show their worth. I don't really understand all this trepidation. Almost like people expect this regime to fail, but still want to keep them around? It's honestly kind of odd.

 

I like McDermott. Allen has shown some promise but I'm leery. I liked Beane's signings this season a whole lot more than Star/Murphy. But if you're all in on this regime, there is NO reason to think they won't be a contender THIS season.

 

Can't dismiss the 2 game handicap.

 

We play Belichick twice each year. The guy who regularly makes "great" offenses look pedestrian and outclassed.

 

Going to be tough for the young guns in our division. Trial by fire.

 

 

 

[LSHMEAB]

27 minutes ago, WideNine said:

 

Can't dismiss the 2 game handicap.

 

We play Belichick twice each year. The guy who regularly makes "great" offenses look pedestrian and outclassed.

 

Going to be tough for the young guns in our division. Trial by fire.

 

 

 

So I'll just clarify where it is that I'm coming from. I do not fully believe in this regime nor do I fully believe in Josh Allen. Oddly enough, the guy I have the most faith in is McDermott.

 

I imagine my perspective is not much different than those that didn't view Tyrod as the answer and wanted to move on if the results remained stagnant. I'm sure the VAST majority of those fans wanted to see the Bills succeed(as I do), but didn't feel great about the direction.

 

I will concede that Josh Allen has FAAAAAAAR more potential to be a great QB than Taylor. I'll also concede that Taylor had a large body of work by the time fans started to get antsy. So the analogy has quite a few flaws and I'm doing far more projecting. In other words, their basis for doubt had much stronger empirical evidence. 

 

That being said, while I ultimately want to see this thing work out, I don't want the organization to get some 5 year pass. That's why this season is so pivotal from my perspective. It's a show me year and because of those nagging doubts, I'm more eager to find out what we have like, this season. 

 

If they win 8 or 9 games, but show REAL signs of growth and eliminate the blowouts, I'd feel comfortable moving forward with them. While I ultimately believe it should be a playoffs or bust type deal, that 8 or 9 win scenario would and should give them another year. I feel like those are pretty reasonable expectations at this point in the process. Anything less and I would prefer the Bills move on.

 

[MJS]

2 hours ago, LSHMEAB said:

Yep. That's the ONLY example of a top tier QB/Coach remaining together through more than one down year, but that is the outlier.

 

As Jerry Glanville so eloquently stated, this is the NFL, which stands for NOT FOR LONG. THIS is the season for McDermott/Allen to show their worth. I don't really understand all this trepidation. Almost like people expect this regime to fail, but still want to keep them around? It's honestly kind of odd.

 

I like McDermott. Allen has shown some promise but I'm leery. I liked Beane's signings this season a whole lot more than Star/Murphy. But if you're all in on this regime, there is NO reason to think they won't be a contender THIS season.

 

I don't have any trepidation. If the Bills go 9-7 and miss the playoffs I won't be shaken up. Allen is still a young QB and will take time to develop. This team is still being built. So no, I don't think that whether or not they make the playoffs THIS year shows if Allen is a good QB or not or shows if McDermott is a good coach or not.

 

I'll be disappointed if we are 6-10 again, for sure, and after that McDermott and company would deserve to be on the hot seat. But if Allen improves and the team goes 8-8 or 9-7 then I'll still be fully on board and I will EXPECT them to make the playoffs in 2020. If they don't make it in 2020 then we have a problem on our hands.

[LSHMEAB]

2 minutes ago, MJS said:

 

I don't have any trepidation. If the Bills go 9-7 and miss the playoffs I won't be shaken up. Allen is still a young QB and will take time to develop. This team is still being built. So no, I don't think that whether or not they make the playoffs THIS year shows if Allen is a good QB or not or shows if McDermott is a good coach or not.

 

I'll be disappointed if we are 6-10 again, for sure, and after that McDermott and company would deserve to be on the hot seat. But if Allen improves and the team goes 8-8 or 9-7 then I'll still be fully on board and I will EXPECT them to make the playoffs in 2020. If they don't make it in 2020 then we have a problem on our hands.

If they go 6-10, it's time to move on. That's just reality. You seem to have far more patience than I, which is cool since neither of us have any say in what goes down.

 

But why 2020? We've done the rebuild. We've acquired the talent. We have the Coach/QB. Every 1st round QB taken in the previous two drafts made the playoffs in season 2. Bears/Rams/Chiefs/Eagles/Texans.

 

Let's raise the bar!

Edited March 22, 2019 by LSHMEAB

[BigBuff423]

I think I understand where you're coming from with this, but this also seems a bit like a pre-determined overreaction. Hypothetically, what if the Bills have a top 5 Offense and the Defense blows chunks and can't stop anyone and they go 6-10 or even 9-7 but miss the playoffs? That's Josh Allen's fault? I mean, come on....if the Bills have a top Defense AND Allen looks the same in year two, fair enough....then all the presume criticism is warranted. However, receivers need to catch the ball, the running game needs to have some production and he needs to be afforded average (at the least) protection to begin to evaluate him in his second year. IF and that's a huge IF, he continues the upward trajectory we saw in the final games last year, this will not be an issue - but we do need to keep all of these factors in mind before we determine our opinion, I would think.

[MJS]

17 minutes ago, LSHMEAB said:

If they go 6-10, it's time to move on. That's just reality. You seem to have far more patience than I, which is cool since neither of us have any say in what goes down.

 

But why 2020? We've done the rebuild. We've acquired the talent. We have the Coach/QB. Every 1st round QB taken in the previous two drafts made the playoffs in season 2. Bears/Rams/Chiefs/Eagles/Texans.

 

Let's raise the bar!

 

They made the playoffs year 1. It took then 2 seasons (including the first year where they made the playoffs) to fix the cap, build the culture, and get the QB. I think this team is on schedule.

 

I AM more patient than you, apparently. I don't think going 6-10 again means we need to move on. I'd like to play this out for a full 4-5 seasons and not throw this regime away until I am certain they are not the answer. Everything so far has shown me that they ARE the answer.

 

Change for changes sake is dumb. I do not want to go through another regime change and rebuild. I want this regime to succeed and I want to give them plenty of time to do it.

 

But regardless, it's not up to us. It's up to ownership.

[WideNine]

29 minutes ago, MJS said:

 

I don't have any trepidation. If the Bills go 9-7 and miss the playoffs I won't be shaken up. Allen is still a young QB and will take time to develop. This team is still being built. So no, I don't think that whether or not they make the playoffs THIS year shows if Allen is a good QB or not or shows if McDermott is a good coach or not.

 

I'll be disappointed if we are 6-10 again, for sure, and after that McDermott and company would deserve to be on the hot seat. But if Allen improves and the team goes 8-8 or 9-7 then I'll still be fully on board and I will EXPECT them to make the playoffs in 2020. If they don't make it in 2020 then we have a problem on our hands.

 

And not to make excuses, but even last year I thought there were games where Allen put the team in position to win just to have our "D" go limp, or Special Teams crap the bed and pave the way for another loss.

 

This line of thinking seems a bit myopic. There is more to a winning season than Allen playing lights out.

 

 

 

[LSHMEAB]

9 minutes ago, WideNine said:

 

And not to make excuses, but even last year I thought there were games where Allen put the team in position to win just to have our "D" go limp, or Special Teams crap the bed and pave the way for another loss.

 

 

 

Get a stud pass rusher at 9 and that will go a long way to getting those stops in key moments. Don't really care if it's interior(Oliver) or an edge (Burns for example). That will complete the defense.

 

I've argued that while our defense was very good last year, they were not elite. They're a pass rusher away from elite status.

[MJS]

15 minutes ago, WideNine said:

And not to make excuses, but even last year I thought there were games where Allen put the team in position to win just to have our "D" go limp, or Special Teams crap the bed and pave the way for another loss.

 

This line of thinking seems a bit myopic. There is more to a winning season than Allen playing lights out.

 

Yeah, I think the defense is just well coached and runs a good scheme. I don't think they have a lot of talent, though. They have a few good players but the rest are kind of average. Definitely no superstars on the defense. I think in order for a team to really be contenders you have to have 2-3 superstars on either side of the ball and one needs to be the QB.

[HOUSE]

On 3/20/2019 at 9:28 AM, Mike Bison said:

I'm confused, I thought this was TBD

 "I think" forum.

Now it's switched back to the "I demand"

"We must or else"

 

Geez this place is pathetic. Get a grip

[eball]

So a friend of mine (from Buffalo -- huge Bills fan) owns a winery in SoCal...yesterday none other than Josh Allen was at his place for lunch and a tasting as part of a wedding party.  My friend got a chance to hang out with him a bit and said that while Josh was diplomatic about it, he's very excited about the FA haul and "is only talking Super Bowl."  Interestingly, my friend said Josh also talked up Metcalf.  Still can't see the Bills going that direction at 9, but of course a QB wants more weapons.

 

Anyway, nothing earth shattering here -- just that our QB loves wine and is very optimistic (and confident) about what is to come.  And in the words of my friend, "he's huge!"

 

Edited March 23, 2019 by eball

[Stank_Nasty]

17 hours ago, LSHMEAB said:

 

 

I imagine my perspective is not much different than those that didn't view Tyrod as the answer and wanted to move on if the results remained stagnant. I'm sure the VAST majority of those fans wanted to see the Bills succeed(as I do), but didn't feel great about the direction.

 

I will concede that Josh Allen has FAAAAAAAR more potential to be a great QB than Taylor. I'll also concede that Taylor had a large body of work by the time fans started to get antsy. So the analogy has quite a few flaws and I'm doing far more projecting. In other words, their basis for doubt had much stronger empirical evidence. 

 

 

 

So let me get this straight here.... you realize it’s a really flawed and, IMO, silly comparison but still choose to feel that way? 

 

Also I would argue you need to stop merely citing the recent qb trends as reason why we need to view the qb as playoffs or bust. How about we quit referencing the exception to the rule. I would argue history says qb’s, as a general rule, are gonna take more than just a year to be playoff ready. You seem to be approaching all this from a really shortsighted viewpoint.