OldTimer1960 Posted March 27, 2019 Share Posted March 27, 2019 1 hour ago, FeelingOnYouboty said: If we're staying at #9 I want to go away with a guy who's a multiple time Pro Bowler/All Pro guy and only Ed Oliver and TJ Hockenson fit that bill for me. Positional value my buttocks! Hockenson would be Allen's best friend and he's a three down player that helps us running the ball too. I'm all for it. If you are saying that you favor a guy with high upside, I can understand. However, based on history it isn't anywhere near a given that a guy at pick 9 will be "multiple time Pro Bowler/All Pro guy". I like Hockenson - love his attitude, effort, desire, blocking and he is a good receiver (maybe not great, but good). Oliver, on the other hand- I won't be disappointed if they take him, but his lack of size and relative lack of productivity concern me. My concern with Oliver isn't really anything to do with his attitude or "jacket-gate", when I watch game tape of him he clearly plays with good effort and his quickness is really outstanding. That being said, he looks very small out there even against college competition and while I recognize that he was consistently double-teamed I didn't feel like he was a dominating player in the games that I watched. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rad Likes The Bills Posted March 27, 2019 Share Posted March 27, 2019 I don't think Hock is better than Vernon Davis when he was coming out and I think he would have to be the absolute best case scenario for a tight end in the first ( VD will be a hof and even then it took him FOUR YEARS TO TRULY HAVE HIS BREAKOUT *965 YDS 13TDS*) I'm sorry i just can't justify spending a first on tight end when there is comparable value found in the later rounds. ( Fant rd2? Irv smith rd 2? Natua rd 3/4? Cj Conrad? rd 5/6 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bing Bong Posted March 27, 2019 Share Posted March 27, 2019 (edited) Maybe i'm just thinking of Jermaine Gresham and early Ebron recently, but TEs seem to bust more than other positions in the first round. Like OJ Howard just doesn't seem to be getting the production his high draft pick warranted and I'd argue he's what you'd reasonably expect from some of the better TEs. Like the better TEs don't have much more production than the average TE, the difference for other positions to stand out as the best in the league is a lot higher production. Edited March 27, 2019 by BarkleyForGOATBackupPT5P 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reed83HOF Posted March 27, 2019 Share Posted March 27, 2019 13 minutes ago, FeelingOnYouboty said: I use to be the positional value guy even at the start of this offseason but there's no OL(Taylor, Ford, Williams) that I like more than Hockenson. He really is this year's Quenton Nelson. A future All Pro guy at a de-valued position. I am more convinced we are doing DL than anything at 9, especially if Oliver is there. We basically have no DEs under contract next season, plus we still have to replace Kyle. I love Hock, but I don't see us taking him at #9. Trade back is possible, but it depends who gets pushed down the board as the QBs get pushed up... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FeelingOnYouboty Posted March 27, 2019 Share Posted March 27, 2019 (edited) On 3/17/2019 at 5:02 PM, JaCrispy said: People need to ask themselves, if we already had 2 top flight TE’s on the roster, would they still take Hockenson at #9... I say this because I don’t think Beane will reach on a TE just because it is a position of need...he is a good prospect- no doubt, but there seems that there will be better talent at that pick. He seems to be a consensus Top 10 talent so I don't think it's a reach at all 17 minutes ago, OldTimer1960 said: If you are saying that you favor a guy with high upside, I can understand. However, based on history it isn't anywhere near a given that a guy at pick 9 will be "multiple time Pro Bowler/All Pro guy". I like Hockenson - love his attitude, effort, desire, blocking and he is a good receiver (maybe not great, but good). Oliver, on the other hand- I won't be disappointed if they take him, but his lack of size and relative lack of productivity concern me. My concern with Oliver isn't really anything to do with his attitude or "jacket-gate", when I watch game tape of him he clearly plays with good effort and his quickness is really outstanding. That being said, he looks very small out there even against college competition and while I recognize that he was consistently double-teamed I didn't feel like he was a dominating player in the games that I watched. The fact that there were up to 4-6 hands on Ed Oliver at all times the last few years he did pretty great. My personal list is at #9: T.J. Hockenson Ed Oliver D.K. Metcalf Montez Sweat Jawaan Taylor Edited March 27, 2019 by FeelingOnYouboty Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Logic Posted March 27, 2019 Share Posted March 27, 2019 I've thought about this quite a lot. More than is probably healthy for a person not employed by a football team. Here's what I've decided: The Bills are early enough in their rebuild and lack enough talent at enough different positions across their roster that their main objective in this draft should be to get as many high quality players as possible. Hockenson, to me, is of the absolute highest caliber. He is the only guy still likely to be on the board at 9 that I look at and say "There's a 10 year All-Pro". His talent seems so transcendent to me, and he seems like such a good fit on this team both from a personality standpoint as well as his play on the field and its impact on our young QB, that I'd be happy to draft him at 9 EVEN THOUGH the recent history of first round tight ends is not pretty. Guys like Travic Kelce and Zach Ertz and (formerly) Rob Gronkowski make SUCH HUGE DIFFERENCES for their teams. I view Hockenson as that level of talent. So "'positional value" be damned, I'm all for drafting Hockenson at 9. The NUMBER ONE JOB of this front office right now is to ensure that Josh Allen has every tool he needs to succeed. From both a pass catching and blocking standpoint and bearing in mind the apparently extremely high talent level of the prospect in question, Hockenson seems like he would be a tremendous help to this offense and to Allen. Say yes to Hockenson at 9. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rad Likes The Bills Posted March 27, 2019 Share Posted March 27, 2019 5 minutes ago, BarkleyForGOATBackupPT5P said: Maybe i'm just thinking of Jermaine Gresham and early Ebron recently, but TEs seem to bust more than other positions in the first round. Like OJ Howard just doesn't seem to be getting the production his high draft pick warranted and I'd argue he's what you'd reasonably expect from some of the better TEs. OJ is a great example. Elite athlete, excellent college production and yet in the NFL he has yet to find his way.. In today's NFL you have to spread the field, why would you put a bigger, slower athlete who you have to teach how to run routes, when you can find a smaller slot receiver who is dynamic in space and can find openings in the defense.. Tight end's are not a necessity in a dynamic modern offense, it's a luxury position that does not hold value over time.... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rico Posted March 27, 2019 Share Posted March 27, 2019 Looks like I have to break out the rosary again. Holy Mary, Mother of God, please no Hock at #9. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tatonka68 Posted March 27, 2019 Share Posted March 27, 2019 (edited) McDermott & Beane came from Carolina Panthers. Cam Newton has Greg Olsen, Josh Allen to Hockenson ???? I Do not mind the pick, just not at #9. Drop down and gain a pick and I am game. Edited March 27, 2019 by Tatonka68 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickelCity Posted March 27, 2019 Share Posted March 27, 2019 Happy with Hock, happy with Oliver. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFan1988 Posted March 27, 2019 Share Posted March 27, 2019 2 hours ago, Chuck Wagon said: Feels like Hock. There have been several mentions from McBeane on the importance of a TE, especially for a young QB. They saw Greg Olsen up close with Cam in Carolina. Daboll saw how Brady used Gronk as his security blanket. If he's there at 9 I think they run the card in then the draft starts after that for us. I don't believe any of the olinemen have separated vs what'll be available at 40 and an argument could be made the same is true for the DL depending on who is there. Exactly draft Hock then trade bk into late first for either Tillery, Wilkins or Simmons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck Wagon Posted March 27, 2019 Share Posted March 27, 2019 31 minutes ago, Tatonka68 said: McDermott & Beane came from Carolina Panthers. Cam Newton has Greg Olsen, Josh Allen to Hockenson ???? I Do not mind the pick, just not at #9. Drop down and gain a pick and I am game. Judging by the buzz on him, he's not going to be available in a drop down. He might not even be there at 9. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted March 27, 2019 Share Posted March 27, 2019 1 hour ago, Rico said: Looks like I have to break out the rosary again. Holy Mary, Mother of God, please no Hock at #9. How has that worked for you? You're better off praying for it. Better chance of it not happening. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rico Posted March 27, 2019 Share Posted March 27, 2019 Just now, Kelly the Dog said: How has that worked for you? You don’t see LVE on the Bills, do you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted March 27, 2019 Share Posted March 27, 2019 3 minutes ago, Rico said: You don’t see LVE on the Bills, do you? Fluke. It's like all the idiots everywhere that say "I knew that was gonna happen!" Yeah, maybe, but you're ignoring the 72,572 times you knew something was gonna happen that surprisingly didn't happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFan1988 Posted March 27, 2019 Share Posted March 27, 2019 38 minutes ago, Chuck Wagon said: Judging by the buzz on him, he's not going to be available in a drop down. He might not even be there at 9. I think Jax and Det will be very possible landing spots for TJ. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bangarang Posted March 27, 2019 Share Posted March 27, 2019 41 minutes ago, Chuck Wagon said: Judging by the buzz on him, he's not going to be available in a drop down. He might not even be there at 9. No chance he goes top 8. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted March 27, 2019 Share Posted March 27, 2019 If they take Hock I will totally understand it and get behind it at 9 We already have 10 picks....maybe the bills dont actually WANT more because they have so many players under contract RIGHT NOW MAYBE......the offense that will be implemented next year requires strong TE play....a guy who can both block and catch over the middle....a dynamic player Hock is that.....personally I like DT in this draft more because the talent there is special...but I would get behind this pick and taking a DT in round 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CajunBillsBacker Posted March 27, 2019 Share Posted March 27, 2019 I don’t know how anyone would be upset with taking him at 9. He’s the best player at a position of need. He’s projected to go in the 6-15 range so it definitely wouldn’t be a reach. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebandit27 Posted March 27, 2019 Share Posted March 27, 2019 1 hour ago, CajunBillsBacker said: I don’t know how anyone would be upset with taking him at 9. He’s the best player at a position of need. He’s projected to go in the 6-15 range so it definitely wouldn’t be a reach. Only 2 TEs in the NFL last year had over 1,000 yards. Is Hockenson definitely that guy? Even if he is, does that make the difference between having a lousy offense and a top-10 offense? Unless the answer to both of those questions is yes, my opinion is that you don't even consider it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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