CountryCletus Posted March 14, 2019 Share Posted March 14, 2019 14 hours ago, Rico said: Ray Ray first. I think Ray Ray will get practice squad stashed.... 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HappyDays Posted March 14, 2019 Share Posted March 14, 2019 I think in the later rounds of the draft they will be looking for players that excel at special teams. They've been overhauling that whole group this offseason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted March 14, 2019 Share Posted March 14, 2019 1 hour ago, dneveu said: Good addition - our returners were not good a year ago. We were forced to use Hyde as a Punt catcher at times last year. We were middle of the road to straight up bad last year at kickoff and punt returns. Returner helps special teams for sure - hopefully Hauschka can get back to form. Punter should still be looked at - Schmidt and Darr were awful, and Bojorquez was pretty inconsistent. I'm betting Cory Carter wins the job. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrEpsYtown Posted March 14, 2019 Share Posted March 14, 2019 2 hours ago, Doc said: Didn't read through the whole thread, but can he also play gunner? I don't think he does. He had something like 12 career tackles, so perhaps he did it earlier in his career. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buffaloboyinATL Posted March 14, 2019 Share Posted March 14, 2019 20 minutes ago, Doc said: I'm betting Cory Carter wins the job. Do we still own his rights? Will his knee be healed for camp this season? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted March 14, 2019 Share Posted March 14, 2019 7 minutes ago, buffaloboyinATL said: Do we still own his rights? Will his knee be healed for camp this season? Yes and I believe he’s healed. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCOrange Posted March 14, 2019 Share Posted March 14, 2019 (edited) 45 minutes ago, HappyDays said: I think in the later rounds of the draft they will be looking for players that excel at special teams. They've been overhauling that whole group this offseason. From this perspective, my bias aside, I think Syracuse's Jamal Custis would make some sense. He's not quite the physical freak that DK Metcalf is, but he played the same role in Syracuse's offense as Metcalf did while also providing tantalizing physical traits (see his spider web relative to Metcalf below). He was also a very good special teamer, playing as the gunner for Syracuse. Custis was a late bloomer and his hands were pretty inconsistent, which have both played a factor in his relatively low draft stock, but with his physical traits and his abilities as a vertical threat, there's some potential there for him to develop into a good WR while playing a special teams role in the meantime. Might be a solid Day 3 investment if Buffalo is interested in the idea of a player like Metcalf but doesn't want him at #9. Edited March 14, 2019 by DCOrange 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCOrange Posted March 14, 2019 Share Posted March 14, 2019 I don't know what the contract is, but I'm pretty disappointed with this one. I think having an open roster spot is more valuable than signing a kick returner personally. Roberts had a year that he almost certainly will not be able to replicate for us, and even then, had a minuscule impact for the Jets. He isn't much more valuable than just having someone take a touchback on every kickoff. I'll be pretty upset if his presence results in Buffalo not drafting one or two WRs in this year's draft, and it appears that's where this is headed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RocCityRoller Posted March 14, 2019 Share Posted March 14, 2019 1 hour ago, DCOrange said: I don't know what the contract is, but I'm pretty disappointed with this one. I think having an open roster spot is more valuable than signing a kick returner personally. Roberts had a year that he almost certainly will not be able to replicate for us, and even then, had a minuscule impact for the Jets. He isn't much more valuable than just having someone take a touchback on every kickoff. I'll be pretty upset if his presence results in Buffalo not drafting one or two WRs in this year's draft, and it appears that's where this is headed. I disagree with you. It is a 3 phase game, and Buffalo just got one of the best in one of the phases. Shorten the field for the QB when possible. Flip the field on possession when possible to help the Defense. If more WR come through the draft then all the better, more COMPETITION and a better team. Good move IMO PS pleased SU won last night without T Battle, good win. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCOrange Posted March 14, 2019 Share Posted March 14, 2019 2 minutes ago, RocCityRoller said: I disagree with you. It is a 3 phase game, and Buffalo just got one of the best in one of the phases. Shorten the field for the QB when possible. Flip the field on possession when possible to help the Defense. If more WR come through the draft then all the better, more COMPETITION and a better team. Good move IMO PS pleased SU won last night without T Battle, good win. Typing from my phone so not gonna be able to provide the links and everything, but per Football Outsiders, Roberts incredible season added 22 points above the average with his kick and punt returns. Buffalo was at -9 points so if Roberts plays at his peak level again (which I think is highly unlikely), you’re talking about roughly a 30 point increase or a little less than 2 points per game. It’s just not a big difference maker. I’d rather use that roster spot to carry, for example, a rookie WR in this very deep class, and have someone go out and just take a touchback on every kick. Go Syracuse! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCBills Posted March 14, 2019 Share Posted March 14, 2019 3 hours ago, DCOrange said: I don't know what the contract is, but I'm pretty disappointed with this one. I think having an open roster spot is more valuable than signing a kick returner personally. Roberts had a year that he almost certainly will not be able to replicate for us, and even then, had a minuscule impact for the Jets. He isn't much more valuable than just having someone take a touchback on every kickoff. I'll be pretty upset if his presence results in Buffalo not drafting one or two WRs in this year's draft, and it appears that's where this is headed. I’m 50/50 on this because the dude is not going to play WR for us so we’re really just using a roster spot on a PR/KR. That being said... We play in a windy stadium so he may get more KR chances than a Dome/Southern team. Also, if our defense is truly elite, that means a lot of 3 & outs and PR’s matter when the opponent is punting from inside their 35. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach Tuesday Posted March 14, 2019 Share Posted March 14, 2019 This to me is less about the player and more about the Bills finally focusing on Teams. I hope this is the first of a major investment and overhaul on a criminally underrated aspect of wins and losses - and one that can be improved without a significant $$ investment relative to the other areas of the team. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCOrange Posted March 14, 2019 Share Posted March 14, 2019 7 minutes ago, SCBills said: I’m 50/50 on this because the dude is not going to play WR for us so we’re really just using a roster spot on a PR/KR. That being said... We play in a windy stadium so he may get more KR chances than a Dome/Southern team. Also, if our defense is truly elite, that means a lot of 3 & outs and PR’s matter when the opponent is punting from inside their 35. Kick returns might literally be legislated out of the game within the next year or two and even without that happening, the % of touchbacks and kick returns that only get to the 25 anyways makes kick returners mostly negligible. As for punt returns, both the Jets and Bills had roughly 20-25 punt returns last year. I just don't think it's worth a roster spot or money for someone that will rarely ever do anything and the idea of it costing us a shot at a legitimate starting WR in the draft just makes me sad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eball Posted March 14, 2019 Share Posted March 14, 2019 1 hour ago, DCOrange said: Kick returns might literally be legislated out of the game within the next year or two and even without that happening, the % of touchbacks and kick returns that only get to the 25 anyways makes kick returners mostly negligible. As for punt returns, both the Jets and Bills had roughly 20-25 punt returns last year. I just don't think it's worth a roster spot or money for someone that will rarely ever do anything and the idea of it costing us a shot at a legitimate starting WR in the draft just makes me sad. It only seems to be your idea. I'm certain the Bills don't view it that way. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCOrange Posted March 14, 2019 Share Posted March 14, 2019 4 minutes ago, eball said: It only seems to be your idea. I'm certain the Bills don't view it that way. Just being realistic, the Bills will almost certainly keep 5 or 6 WRs on the roster with Roberts included. 3 of those spots are now spoken for via our free agent signings. I personally think Foster's spot should be relatively safe while Zay's should not be safe, but it seems that people expect both of them to be on the roster. That gets us to 5 without including Duke, McKenzie, or any rookies. My main point isn't even about specifically a WR, it's about spending a roster spot on a guy that just doesn't make much of an impact. No kick returner in today's NFL really makes a significant impact, Roberts included. The vast majority of kicks and punts are not returned at all. Even with Roberts in New York, 68% of the Jets punts were touchbacks or fair catches. We're talking about roughly 1 or 2 punt returns per game for Roberts. Because of how few opportunities a punt returner gets over the course of a season, the difference between the #1 punt returner (Roberts last year) and a league average punt returner is basically one single return that happens to be a big play. Roberts himself has jumped back and forth from elite to below average over the past 5 years. I just don't think it makes logical sense to spend a roster spot essentially on one big play in a season that he may or may not even make. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted March 14, 2019 Share Posted March 14, 2019 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Logic Posted March 14, 2019 Share Posted March 14, 2019 1 hour ago, DCOrange said: Just being realistic, the Bills will almost certainly keep 5 or 6 WRs on the roster with Roberts included. 3 of those spots are now spoken for via our free agent signings. I personally think Foster's spot should be relatively safe while Zay's should not be safe, but it seems that people expect both of them to be on the roster. That gets us to 5 without including Duke, McKenzie, or any rookies. My main point isn't even about specifically a WR, it's about spending a roster spot on a guy that just doesn't make much of an impact. No kick returner in today's NFL really makes a significant impact, Roberts included. The vast majority of kicks and punts are not returned at all. Even with Roberts in New York, 68% of the Jets punts were touchbacks or fair catches. We're talking about roughly 1 or 2 punt returns per game for Roberts. Because of how few opportunities a punt returner gets over the course of a season, the difference between the #1 punt returner (Roberts last year) and a league average punt returner is basically one single return that happens to be a big play. Roberts himself has jumped back and forth from elite to below average over the past 5 years. I just don't think it makes logical sense to spend a roster spot essentially on one big play in a season that he may or may not even make. Two things: 1.) Andre Roberts directly won the Jets the game against the Bills in Orchard Park last year. For what this dude is likely getting paid, the possibility at his adding one or two wins a year make his addition worthwhile. 2.) Teams always keep a kick returner on the roster. Bills ended last season with Victor Bolden on the roster as a kick returner. If it wasn't Roberts, it would have been McCloud or some drafted return specialist. They're not going to NOT have a roster spot taken by a WR for special teams only. One of the six spots is always going to go to a special teams ace and/or returner. Might as well have that spot be taken by an All-Pro rather than somebody like McCloud, who truly offers very little. 9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoPar_v2 Posted March 14, 2019 Share Posted March 14, 2019 1 hour ago, DCOrange said: Just being realistic, the Bills will almost certainly keep 5 or 6 WRs on the roster with Roberts included. 3 of those spots are now spoken for via our free agent signings. I personally think Foster's spot should be relatively safe while Zay's should not be safe, but it seems that people expect both of them to be on the roster. That gets us to 5 without including Duke, McKenzie, or any rookies. My main point isn't even about specifically a WR, it's about spending a roster spot on a guy that just doesn't make much of an impact. No kick returner in today's NFL really makes a significant impact, Roberts included. The vast majority of kicks and punts are not returned at all. Even with Roberts in New York, 68% of the Jets punts were touchbacks or fair catches. We're talking about roughly 1 or 2 punt returns per game for Roberts. Because of how few opportunities a punt returner gets over the course of a season, the difference between the #1 punt returner (Roberts last year) and a league average punt returner is basically one single return that happens to be a big play. Roberts himself has jumped back and forth from elite to below average over the past 5 years. I just don't think it makes logical sense to spend a roster spot essentially on one big play in a season that he may or may not even make. You're taking a very strict cost/benefit analysis look here and I respect that and agree with your points about the phase-out of the kickoff. That said I still agree on scooping up the all-pro specialist, maybe just because I still have nightmares about the Bills' special teams play last season. 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted March 14, 2019 Share Posted March 14, 2019 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WMDman Posted March 14, 2019 Share Posted March 14, 2019 16 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said: Absolute steal 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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